The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 5

[Keehar]

Say what. Ideas have to be born from somewhere says you. So if someone swipes your ideas and sells them off as their own then they can just say ideas gotta come from somewhere haha. Nah don't think you'd be happy with that would you.

Kane didn't put ideas together that were inspired from something else. No sir. He stole all the credit from Bill Finger and everybody else that worked on Batman comics from 1939 to 1964, "by Bob Kane" was the only name credited when actually Bob Kane never wrote the stories and stopped drawing the comics in the early '40s when Jerry Robinson took over the artwork. And Bob Kane swiped and copied others artwork.

That ain't dubious. That's dishonest and lousy. He's nothing but a rotten thief and a liar.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Bob Kane and Stan Lee both belong in the same cheating bucket together, both lecherous, idea robbing, other writer & concept artist screwing *uckers.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Say what. Ideas have to be born from somewhere says you. So if someone swipes your ideas and sells them off as their own then they can just say ideas gotta come from somewhere haha. Nah don't think you'd be happy with that would you.

Kane didn't put ideas together that were inspired from something else. No sir. He stole all the credit from Bill Finger and everybody else that worked on Batman comics from 1939 to 1964, "by Bob Kane" was the only name credited when actually Bob Kane never wrote the stories and stopped drawing the comics in the early '40s when Jerry Robinson took over the artwork. And Bob Kane swiped and copied others artwork.

That ain't dubious. That's dishonest and lousy. He's nothing but a rotten thief and a liar.

Ah, I thought you meant in like Da Vinci's wings giving inspiration.
Yeah, that's pretty dishonest.

 

[Mace Dolex]

And, again, Burton was not making the movie in an era where everything was milked to death in the name of creating a "franchise". It is perhaps ironic that he gave birth to that era, but at the time he did not have the luxury of an "origin movie" with the certainty of a sequel, or the option to make a "prequel" to the movie for which he was hired. In B89 he had to introduce both Batman and his greatest nemesis, create a deadly rivalry between them, and conclude that story in a satisfactory manner. He does so extremely well, even if he does re-wire the comicbook mythology to create a more tightly closed narrative circuit.

Incidentally, I think Bruce's international travels and training are referenced by his possession of a samurai armour, and his statement that he "bought it in Japan". The audience is left to draw a connection between that and Batman's evident prowess in hand to hand combat. We don't need a ten minute flashback montage, or a monologue of dreary exposition from Alfred.

I like the way you put it and you're right, it might be hard to believe now but back in '89 Batman was still a high risk gamble and the studio didn't have any inkling on building a franchise to a comic book character still primarily known for the silly 60's TV show, up to that point Superman was the only success in movies and all but peetered out with Superman IV and the less to say about Howard The Duck the better.

I think I read in an interview that even Burton himself was not thinking of sequels (what with the stress of answering to Jon Peters and all) that his focus was on delivering the movie on budget and on time.

 

[Penguin]

You know, after reading those articles and the threads, I can’t say that I have much respect for Kane.

I completely understand being inspired by things around you and taking those things and incorporating them into your stories, a series like Star Wars was mostly inspired by Flash Gordon for example. But there is a huge difference between being inspired and right out copying someone else’s work, like taking their art, characters, and whatever else. I’m glad Bob Kane was one of the contributors that helped mold Batman, but Finger was the one writing the stories. Bill was developing the characters and giving them their great characteristics.

It really doesn’t surprise me that this is true when I look back on what I have read, because when I started out reading the Golden Age comics, never did I see another artist’s or writer’s name on any of those stories. Even when the artist’s style was different, it still had that little box that had “Bob Kane” written in it. When you don’t have the integrity to credit other people that have helped you, then I can’t say I’m going to respect that person.

 

[regwec]

The injustice is somewhat redressed by the fact that Batman fans generally view Bob Kane as John the Baptist to Bill Finger's Jesus.

 

[Rodrigo90]

It's all a mess. Jerry Robinson, Bill Finger, Bob Kane, 3 men claiming this and that about the work they did. If it weren't for Kane, then we wouldn't have Batman...
If it weren't for the other two guys, then we wouldn't of had all the great stuff we love today. Kane did have other input in the creation of elements.
I don't know why Kane felt he had to take the full credit, but he did eventually acknowledge Finger and Robinson for their credit...Finger, years after his death

 

[Naked Shia]

you should read Chip Kidds Bill the boy wonder.

Kane was a hack without ideas. his first design of batman is ridiculous. Even the basic design owes much to Finger.

if Kane had been honest about the whole thing, he would have helphed Bill before his death, which he didn't. He only acknowledge Finger's input when everybody in the industry was talking about it.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Yes. If it weren't for Bill, Batman would've been a complete eyesore.

And Bob should've acknowledged his partner's work for him. Did Finger ever try to speak out about it when he was alive?

 

[Naked Shia]

not that I'm aware of. I've read articles about the matter, it seems Bill was a really shy person, and he did not do anything to settle this sadly. He died alone and poor.

 

[Rodrigo90]

That's ****
Everything he did and brought to Batman, that's how Bob repayed him? What a *****e.

 

[Naked Shia]

it's actually quite easy to find what happened, there are a lot of source. It's indeed really sad, and it explains why a lot of people despise Kane.

During the 60's, he sold paint of the bat characters, pretending he was the one who drew them, when it was the work of others. There are even some pictures of him pretending to be painting.

 

[Rodrigo90]

And it wasn't even really him?

It was just about image and prestige. People in the business around Kane probably encouraged him to do what he did for the publicity. But at any point he could've told the truth. He was more or a less a fraud.

 

[Penguin]

Yeah, his acknowledgement and remorse seemed very disingenuous to me, but it’s like Rodrigo said, without Kane, we really wouldn’t have Batman. Kane had the idea, but Finger was the one writing the character and came up with the final visual. The only thing Kane really created was Two-Face, but I’m sure, like with the other villains such as Joker, Penguin, and Catwoman, Finger was making most of the decisions.

 

[regwec]

I tend to be unimpressed by arguments that Bob Kane created the "idea" of Batman. Without Finger's influence, what was that "idea?" A masked vigilante, with a bat theme. Masked vigilantes were the standard fare of comicbooks and pulp novels of the time. So Kane's idea seems to have been that they should do what was popular anyway, but with a new theme. How about a bat?

Kane doodles this much, before Finger took it off his hands and started again.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Well, what became "Batman" wasn't Kane's idea. It was all born from this concept he drew, which included the bat motif. Finger, he created the Batman.

 

[The Shape]

Maybe someone should make a "Bob Kane sucks" thread to continue this discussion?

 

[Penguin]

Maybe someone should make a "Bob Kane sucks" thread to continue this discussion?

Someone should bump one of those old threads.

 

[The Joker]

I tend to be unimpressed by arguments that Bob Kane created the "idea" of Batman. Without Finger's influence, what was that "idea?" A masked vigilante, with a bat theme. Masked vigilantes were the standard fare of comicbooks and pulp novels of the time. So Kane's idea seems to have been that they should do what was popular anyway, but with a new theme. How about a bat?

Kane doodles this much, before Finger took it off his hands and started again.

Hear hear

 

[Rodrigo90]

Anyway...B89 was awesome! It's sloppy at times, but it deserves respect. It remains my favourite Batman movie to this day.

 

[shauner111]

Batman and Robin was the last Batman movie that Bob saw before he died. Karma anyone??

 

[Rodrigo90]

That is true. It's what killed the old codger.

 

[Kane52630]

Bob Kane = Steve Jobs
Bill Finger = Steve Wozniak

 

[Naked Shia]

Anyway...B89 was awesome! It's sloppy at times, but it deserves respect. It remains my favourite Batman movie to this day.

I love batman 89. I think I love returns more though. But man, do those movies age well.

Batman and Robin was the last Batman movie that Bob saw before he died. Karma anyone??

 

[Rodrigo90]

My mother, she's the Returns nut