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Discussion in 'Batman World' started by Thread Manager, Mar 29, 2014.
An excellent director, who clearly lead a wild, full life.
It's sad to see him go. R.I.P.
Ditto. Both films reflect the dual nature of the 1990s.
Falling Down reflected the racial tension and anxiety of Los Angeles post LA riots , and Batman Forever reflected the big budget, computer /virtual reality, and more upbeat aspects of 1990s pop culture.
I have been thinking of him recently, that not only were his films very polarizing but then the Nolan films went in such a different direction and were widely embraced.
Batman Forever was the first film I saw in theaters and a fun ride, introduction to Batman and also to the Riddler and Robin, it does pale compared to a lot of other versions but is still both entertaining and an overall fine adaptation especially of difficult-to-adapt Robin.
Falling Down, A Time to Kill and more so Phone Booth and Tigerland are stronger films, overall some really strong performances/characters and stories, admirable willingness to try very different kinds of films even though most of them ended up being average.
A very sweet tribute to Joel by Seal.
RIP. I liked Batman Forever as a kid. Good director overall and lived a long life.
Even if his Batman movies were disappointing for a lot of fans, he took it right and didn't try to act like a misunderstood genius.
**** it, BF is probably my favorite movie of all time. I love Joel Schumacher. Lost Boys is the best vampire movie too, easily.
It's pretty ****ty that Schumacher's passing kinda got buried in all the news of Keaton potentially returning, yesterday. Batman Forever's a good Batman movie imo.
It was bizarre timing with everything yesterday. In the plus side, at least there was a lot of love being shown for Forever for the 25th anniversary just shortly before. I only hope Joel was aware of all the nice stuff being written.
Seal is one of my favorite artists, and I wouldn't have known about his without Joel Schumacer.
I'm also glad at all the love that is being shown for BF after being bashed for so long.
I also like that younger fans can now discover that he wasn't just "the Batman guy", but that he had a whole library of films over 30 years which touched the culture like The Wiz, Carwash, St Elmo's Fire, Lost Boys, Flatliners, A Time to Kill, Falling Down, Phonebooth, among others.
The funny thing was, BF wasn't really polarizing when it came out. The GA liked the film and it was a huge hit. At the time , audiences excepted it for what it was.
That's why Batman and Robin came out only two years later, because WB wanted to capitalize on BF's success and rush another film into production.
BF really became polarizing with fandom after Batman and Robin. Then the narrative became " Everything Schumacer does sucks, and Everything Burton does rules!".
And that coincided with the growth of messageboards and chat rooms which is when you started having the two sides able to interact with each other.
A similar thing happened with the Raimi Spiderman films after SM3. What once was considered good or fine before, then suddenly becomes awful after one bad film.
But that's kinda how fandom is in general. I can already see the pendulum swinging back in Schumacer's favor with regards to Batman Forever with more of an appreciation for what he did in that film even with its flaws.
I just rewatched Forever for the first time in years in light of Schumacher's passing. It does have a lot going for it, namely Kilmer's performance. He's without a doubt the most underrated live action Batman. Carrey, while essentially playing himself and not the traditional Riddler, is still entertaining. Honestly, Carrey being in the film is probably one of the biggest reasons why it was so successful considering he was one of, if not the biggest star on the planet at that point in time. Tommy Lee Jones is campy as hell too. Entertaining, but it's really more or less Joker in a Two-Face skin. Kidman did a much better job as a love interest than Kim Basinger did for the first film, IMO, since her purpose wasn't to just scream all the time. The weakest link in the cast for me is Chris O'Donnell but at least he was less annoying here than in Batman and Robin. One thing I liked that Schumacher did was that he gave Alfred much more to do than Burton did. Apart from helping Bruce solve the riddles in Forever, his scenes in Batman and Robin were the only grounded moments in that whole movie that weren't completely over the top.
I don’t know why that song worked/for so well with the film. I would never have picked it out for the latest Batman film. Now it’s an unforgettable part of the film and one of Seal’s best known songs.
I think Kilmer did a great job. And he looked fantastic in the suit.
What's strange is that it's not heard until the end of the credits. When I rewatched it I was expecting to hear it right when the credits rolled because I kind of had a Mandela effect thing where I remembered it leading the credits for some reason, but that U2 song is played first.
It's crazy that all four of the pre-Nolan Batfilms from 89-97 had at least one song to promote it. Batman of course had the Prince songs, Returns had a Siouxie and the Banshees song, and Forever and Batman and Robin both had full tie-in albums.
I saw a YouTube comment that said out of all the live action Batmen, Kilmer's Batman voice was the closest to Kevin Conroy's and I have to agree.
The U2 song fit so well and was so good too that it made you stay through the credits. I love the Batman Forever soundtrack.
I've always been partial to that Flaming Lips song that plays when we see Edward Nygma at home, even though the lyrics are dark as hell for a movie that was meant to steer the franchise in a lighter direction after Returns.
Batman Forever rocks. R.I.P. Joel Schumacher.
Phone Booth is also a personal favorite.
I do think the film still works better if you watch it pretty-soon-after The Mask, I think there are, intentional or not, big similarities in how Carrey played the characters and it makes more sense that Nygma is so focused on, and kind-of-sympathetically portrayed, with Carrey having played a similar hero-star of a recent superhero film.
He was a really strong part of the films, contributed a lot to the sense that Kilmer and then Clooney was Bruce Wayne and to the partnership between Batman and Robin feeling as real as it did.
Yes, though big comics fans were disappointed that it went too Adam West-y, too goofy, even they mostly accepted that that was to be expected while the general audiences enjoyed that it was as popcorn-y, light and family friendly as it was, both pretty much accepted that was how films would be and to succeed had to be.
Pretty soon some fans were more positive to Burton but a lot were saying all the films are bad, only TAS was acceptable.
Thanks, saw the artwork online. Burton’s Finest. Wish I could’ve seen it. Superman Lives then a Batman and Superman film with Keaton / Cage. Anyway sad to see Joel go.
[QUOTE="Herofan, post: 38214930, member: 156199"
Pretty soon some fans were more positive to Burton but a lot were saying all the films are bad, only TAS was acceptable.[/QUOTE]
Well , there was a reevaluation of Burton , and alot of fans began to look at BR more positively in relation to BF and B&R.
Both sides of fadom pretty much seemed to agree that B89 was good, and B&R was bad. You did have fans who were part of the only BTAS is good, but the divide was between fans of BR and BF.
Alot of the" Burton and Schumacer films suck" chorus came after the first two Nolan films.
But to be fair, the "mine is better than yours" thing seems to happen with alot of these older franchises like Batman, Superman, and Spiderman.
Its sort of a natural cycle in which something is popular at first, it has a bad film and is rebooted, the old version is bashed, then after a decade or more so its re-evaluated more favorably again.
That's happened with several different Superman tv series, The Burton and Schumacer films, and the Raimi Spiderman films.
Joel Schumacher was a legend. Yes, not all his movies landed but nobody has a perfect record.
The Client was a fantastic film, when A Time to Kill was made grisham would only agree to the movie being made when Joel Schumacher was brought in as director, because he loved his work on The Client.
Falling Down was a masterpiece, because you spend the whole movie cheering the bad guy and don't realize it until the end. St one point in time, the legendary Kirk Douglas called it his son Michaels best movie.
he launched, restarted, and help boost the careers of many Hollywood greats, including Rob Lowe, Kiefer Sutherland, Colin Farrell, and Matthew McConaughey.
He was known as a consummate gentleman, a flamboyant personality, and just an overall nice guy.
His set designs were epic, his cinematography was unparalleled.
the movie Batman and Robin may have been trash, but it was entertaining and the actors obviously had a lot of fun doing it.
Batman Forever, even though it is held in low regard by "serious" comic book fans, is a good movie. Yes, it was silly, but the studio wanted family-friendly. If he tried to deliver a dark, Tim Burton style Batman movie he would have been fired. There's nothing wrong with making a Batman movie or cartoon aimed at kids. sometimes you get Batman the animated series, but sometimes you get Batman brave and the bold, or The Batman. He wasn't hired to make a Batman the animated series movie, he was hired to make a The Batman movie.
We need more Kane gifs from this masterpiece.
Also so I can get a new avvy