Batman & Robin The Official Batman & Robin Thread - Part 1

[Decepticonus]

Batman Returns is (pardon me) Tim Burton *********ing.

Actually that does make sense. BR is a good example where giving the director too much creative control is a bad idea.

 

[Webhead38]

I want to see this movie again very soon I know I've said it before, but I just can't hate it...it was the best Batman movie ever when I was nine years old. I loved Batman 1989 (still do) and Batman Returns (not so much today), but this movie was bigger and much more fun (I saw Batman Forever after B&R. Read the comic adaptation first, though).

The stunts were cooler, Batman acted more like a hero, Gotham City wasn't as claustrophobic, the villain didn't just threaten Gotham, but the entire world...

I didn't even know it was considered a bad movie until I got an internet connection back in 2001. "Oh, it's a bad movie? The critics and true fans hate it? Well, I guess they're right...". But now I don't give a crap, it's not a masterpiece, but it's still "damn good television". I've said it many times, but I'll say it again: I think many people hate it just because it's popular.

I really miss those days when we had comic book movies like Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. Uncomplicated stories about goodguys in costumes who punched badguys in the butt (kicking butt is so 2015).

Don't get me wrong, I love The Dark Knight trilogy, Winter Soldier and all that stuff, but come on...now matter how much real world stuff and politics you bring into a superhero story, it's still about grown men in weird costumes with names like Moose-Man, Purple Spatula and The Mantastic Man-Man. Let's have some fun with it.

Well said. I think if you look at the history of Batman on film or television, it has swung wildly from one tonal change to another. You had Adam West as Batman, then Keaton and the animated series with Kevin Conroy. But then you get into cartoons like "Batman: Brave & the Bold" which celebrate the camp and cartoony side of the hero, which is also successful today. It really makes no sense to me why Batman & Robin should be offensive to honestly anyone in this day and age. Batman has gone in all directions and found an audience. So to me this movie really fits in perfectly with the genre no matter how you approach it.

I've heard Clooney basically takes to the tour circuit these days to disown it, which I see strictly as his own personal insecurities glowing. He's been in a pot load of films and outside of his Ocean Eleven films (3) and Gravity which he only played a bit part in, he has never acted in a film that made as much as Batman & Robin. And for all the hoopla I hear about his writing and directing skills, those films have not approached B&R in success either. Arnold and Uma Thurman have no issues with it, so ole George looks a little thin skinned in his retrospective on the matter. That movie opened ALLOT of doors for him and got him out of the stigma of being a television actor.

But I think what really makes me shake my head the most are these folks on Youtube who seem to LIVE for reviewing this film. Can we hand out Razzies for these poor lost souls? Half the time they don't know what they are talking about and the other part of the time they are embarrassing themselves in trying to establish humor as part of their review (which never works). And then you get Kevin Smith engaged enough to spend the ENTIRE movie doing a commentary, that really argues he is more fan than critic. Who takes the time to do a scene for scene commentary over something they don't like? As if it needs to be explained to the masses? Make no mistake. He likes that movie, he just can't own up.

At the end of the day, it's just another interpretation brought to you by the format that created these stories which is the grand ole comic book. Schumacher didn't make anything that wasn't a tested and true formula to the hero. My kids grew up loving it and my grandson enjoys it immensely. If this audience can find the charm and watch it repeatedly, why then do older generations need to find the folly in it's creation? Clearly it does more than enough right to bring in fans for each new generation. Truly bad films don't get away with that honor.

In my book Batman & Robin may not be the best in the Batman franchise in terms of story telling, but in terms of watchability it's easily a favorite to put in when I want to kick back and enjoy a visual ride. This movie is one of only a scant few in the Batman series that actually entertains consistently. It's not bogged down in trying to "be serious" or explore social reflections ill served for these kinds of films. B&R is simply a movie that says, "Do you like the colorful world of Batman? Great. Lets take a ride." I think that's worth my time when I need something to entertain me. I have ZERO reserves about saying I like it.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Well said. I think if you look at the history of Batman on film or television, it has swung wildly from one tonal change to another. You had Adam West as Batman, then Keaton and the animated series with Kevin Conroy. But then you get into cartoons like "Batman: Brave & the Bold" which celebrate the camp and cartoony side of the hero, which is also successful today. It really makes no sense to me why Batman & Robin should be offensive to honestly anyone in this day and age. Batman has gone in all directions and found an audience. So to me this movie really fits in perfectly with the genre no matter how you approach it.

I've heard Clooney basically takes to the tour circuit these days to disown it, which I see strictly as his own personal insecurities glowing. He's been in a pot load of films and outside of his Ocean Eleven films (3) and Gravity which he only played a bit part in, he has never acted in a film that made as much as Batman & Robin. And for all the hoopla I hear about his writing and directing skills, those films have not approached B&R in success either. Arnold and Uma Thurman have no issues with it, so ole George looks a little thin skinned in his retrospective on the matter. That movie opened ALLOT of doors for him and got him out of the stigma of being a television actor.

But I think what really makes me shake my head the most are these folks on Youtube who seem to LIVE for reviewing this film. Can we hand out Razzies for these poor lost souls? Half the time they don't know what they are talking about and the other part of the time they are embarrassing themselves in trying to establish humor as part of their review (which never works). And then you get Kevin Smith engaged enough to spend the ENTIRE movie doing a commentary, that really argues he is more fan than critic. Who takes the time to do a scene for scene commentary over something they don't like? As if it needs to be explained to the masses? Make no mistake. He likes that movie, he just can't own up.

At the end of the day, it's just another interpretation brought to you by the format that created these stories which is the grand ole comic book. Schumacher didn't make anything that wasn't a tested and true formula to the hero. My kids grew up loving it and my grandson enjoys it immensely. If this audience can find the charm and watch it repeatedly, why then do older generations need to find the folly in it's creation? Clearly it does more than enough right to bring in fans for each new generation. Truly bad films don't get away with that honor.

In my book Batman & Robin may not be the best in the Batman franchise in terms of story telling, but in terms of watchability it's easily a favorite to put in when I want to kick back and enjoy a visual ride. This movie is one of only a scant few in the Batman series that actually entertains consistently. It's not bogged down in trying to "be serious" or explore social reflections ill served for these kinds of films. B&R is simply a movie that says, "Do you like the colorful world of Batman? Great. Lets take a ride." I think that's worth my time when I need something to entertain me. I have ZERO reserves about saying I like it.

Great post, sir, and I agree with all of it.

I'm also tired of people on the internet (like Doug Walker, the nostalgia critic) reviewing Batman & Robin. Maybe it was fashionable to whine and cry about the movie back in 1997, but doing it now is pretty silly. It's the same stuff over and over again; "bat credit card! Too much humor!" Etc. Sorry, people...it's not original anymore.

I really don't understand why some comic book fans still get mad when someone mentions Batman & Robin. It's just a movie based on a comic book character, it's not like someone made a comedy about slavery in the US. I'm a big fan of most superhero movies myself, but sometimes comic book fans scare me...the stuff some of them write about Schumacher on IMDB is not very nice. If they want the dark and gritty version of Batman, they can just watch Nolan's Trilogy.

I also agree with you on Clooney. He's like a kid who wears underoos, but when his pals tell him that underoos are lame, he throws his underoos in the trash and makes fun of them. And Schumacher has apologized for making the movie, which is completely unnecessary. Again, it's not an offensive comedy about slavery or "The Adventures of Amazing Adolf and his Magic Moustache". It's a comic book!

I've said this many times before, but Batman & Robin doesn't disrespect Batman as a character. He's not portrayed as an incompetent loser who needs his sidekick to save him from danger (if you want to see a movie that really takes a crap on the hero, watch Disney's The Lone Ranger) or someone who steps on his own cape. He's portrayed as a true hero, brave and selfless.

I think one of the reasons why I didn't have a problem with the movie was that I grew up with both the newer comics like Legends of the Dark Knight and the 40s-50s comics (reprints). I didn't know anything about the stuff about earth 1 or earth 2 and all that crap, to me it was the same Batman. And in many ways, Batman & Robin reminds me of the fifties comic books I still love to read.

Good to hear that your kids and grandson are B&R fans t: If my own daughters ever show interest in Batman when they get a little older, Batman & Robin and the Adam West series are the versions I'll show them first. But I'll probably have to cover their eyes during the part with the rubber butts, which is my only complaint seriously, that part always bothered me as a kid. "I don't wanna see that. Batman doesn't have a butt!" Ugh...Imagine if Indiana Jones ran around with his buttcrack showing.

Sigh...now I want to see the movie again (but not because of the butts). Saturday night, popcorn and Batman & Robin

(Wow, I wrote "now matter" in my first post...how embarrassing!)

 

[Decepticonus]

You mentioned Brave & The Bold, and yes that show was AMAZING! But yeah Batman can be told in so many ways. Hell, right now working on my own fan-fic of a golden age, old school 40's Batman.
Lately I have been reading Bat-Manga from Jiro Kuwata (I highly recommend it). It came out the same time as the Adam West show, so silly, silver-age but not as campy. It has a Scooby-Doo mystery vibe where each story has a different, original villain and you find out who's behind the mask. A lot of science gone wrong (think silver age Marvel) for example one guy drinks alien goo and another one has a weather controlling device.
Is it dark & gritty? Nope! Serious? Nope! But is it fun? OH. GOD. YES!!!! You have Robin saying "Batman! That Arab on a dinosaur is charging at us!"
And you bring up reading the Batman comics of the 40's and 50's. The 50's, being the safe, traditional, conservative Eisnehower years get a bad rep. I still need to read them, but people argue too many aliens, too much in space and stuff like that. It used to ward me off, but my perspective has changed. I say well Batman is awesome. Space is awesome (hell want to go there myself). Therefore, Batman in space?! HELL YEAH! And now I want to find these and read them someday.

But yes, sick of people commenting on this film all over Youtube. Hell, maybe we should do one but we discuss it like adults. Me personally, I'd rather criticize the crap out of Batman Returns.

 

[Herofan]

Agreed that the intensity of a lot of the bashing is excessive and there's too little open-mindedness about a lighter version of Batman but ...

Schumacher's miscue was going completely lighthearted, when fans wanted the notoriety of a Dark Knight film. Fans felt betrayed and insulted based on those expectations.

I think it's not just the fans, Schumacher in adapting elements from TAS did give his version of Mr. Freeze a serious if not at least somewhat dark/tragic backstory and even main story and yet in most scenes there's no trace of it and he's to be taken completely non-seriously and taking Bane (a dark character in the comics who again had a somewhat dark origin even in the film) and butchering him seemed an almost deliberate insult. On the other hand I like a lot of the film Poison Ivy, partly because the comic book character is generally one of Batman's lighter and more outlandish foes to begin with.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

You mentioned Brave & The Bold, and yes that show was AMAZING! But yeah Batman can be told in so many ways. Hell, right now working on my own fan-fic of a golden age, old school 40's Batman.
Lately I have been reading Bat-Manga from Jiro Kuwata (I highly recommend it). It came out the same time as the Adam West show, so silly, silver-age but not as campy. It has a Scooby-Doo mystery vibe where each story has a different, original villain and you find out who's behind the mask. A lot of science gone wrong (think silver age Marvel) for example one guy drinks alien goo and another one has a weather controlling device.
Is it dark & gritty? Nope! Serious? Nope! But is it fun? OH. GOD. YES!!!! You have Robin saying "Batman! That Arab on a dinosaur is charging at us!"
And you bring up reading the Batman comics of the 40's and 50's. The 50's, being the safe, traditional, conservative Eisnehower years get a bad rep. I still need to read them, but people argue too many aliens, too much in space and stuff like that. It used to ward me off, but my perspective has changed. I say well Batman is awesome. Space is awesome (hell want to go there myself). Therefore, Batman in space?! HELL YEAH! And now I want to find these and read them someday.

But yes, sick of people commenting on this film all over Youtube. Hell, maybe we should do one but we discuss it like adults. Me personally, I'd rather criticize the crap out of Batman Returns.

I haven't read Bat-Manga, but I loved the episode from the brave and the bold which had an animated version of it. I also liked the one with Batboy and Rubin read that parody as a kid (the ending scared me back then, even though it's ridiculous). Great show, too bad it's over!

The 50s comics can be hard to find, but you should look for the "Batman in the Fifties" tpb. I think there's two or three space stories in it. It also features
Batwoman's first appearance, Bat-Mite, Ace the Bathound and the Red Hood origin for The Joker.

 

[Decepticonus]

I think it's not just the fans, Schumacher in adapting elements from TAS did give his version of Mr. Freeze a serious if not at least somewhat dark/tragic backstory and even main story and yet in most scenes there's no trace of it and he's to be taken completely non-seriously and taking Bane (a dark character in the comics who again had a somewhat dark origin even in the film) and butchering him seemed an almost deliberate insult. On the other hand I like a lot of the film Poison Ivy, partly because the comic book character is generally one of Batman's lighter and more outlandish foes to begin with.

Can't stand her in it, not to sound misogynstic but hated her and Batgirl in this. Uma Thurman is a great actress but in this...ugh. I like the Kev Smith commentary in how they note she tries this wanna-be sexy, Urtha Kit voice but it fails, it's not sexy at all. And her whole purpose in the film is to walk in and drop a piece of clothing like a coat or shawl.

I haven't read Bat-Manga, but I loved the episode from the brave and the bold which had an animated version of it. I also liked the one with Batboy and Rubin read that parody as a kid (the ending scared me back then, even though it's ridiculous). Great show, too bad it's over!

What you saw in the show is based right off the very first story of Bat-Manga Vol. 1. Get it! Vol. 3 is coming in like a month or two.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

What you saw in the show is based right off the very first story of Bat-Manga Vol. 1. Get it! Vol. 3 is coming in like a month or two.

I willt: It's available on comixology, right?

 

[Decepticonus]

I willt: It's available on comixology, right?

Not sure, they were gifts to me from a friend. All still in print though.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Bought it, read the Lord Death-Man stories and the first part of the Dr Faceless story. I usually hate manga and anime, but this is great stuff It makes me wish that the Japanese made their own live-action Batman series.

Dr. Faceless is a real jerk.

 

[Decepticonus]

Bought it, read the Lord Death-Man stories and the first part of the Dr Faceless story. I usually hate manga and anime, but this is great stuff It makes me wish that the Japanese made their own live-action Batman series.

Dr. Faceless is a real jerk.

I know, it's great stuff. I'm almost done with Vol. 2

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

So...B&R merch and crap:

1. Does anyone remember the Batman & Robin game on Playstation? It was a not-very-good version of Arkham Knight. You could drive the batmobile in a (mostly) open world, search for clues and stuff like that. You could play as Batman, Robin and Batgirl. It had annoying camera angles, stiff animations and horrible fighting mechanics. I still liked it You could even visit places like Axis Chemicals from the first movie, which I thought was pretty cool.

Too bad about the horrible controls and camera angles. If they had changed a few things, it could have been a really good Batman game!

2. I also had a small handheld "tiger" game that was shaped as the batsymbol. A small Batman-figure was included, and you could use it as a joystick. Can't remember if I ever beat it. I think I preferred the Batman Forever version.

3. My aunt gave me some B&R coloring books. The art reminded me very much of BTAS (I still have them at my mother's house, and since I didn't color everything, I can give them to my daughters when they get older). Anyone else know what I'm talking about.

4. From my uncle I got a bag of wine gums shaped as Batman if Robin if I remember correctly. I haven't found any info about it on the internet, but I think it was German.

5. The action figures, of course. Battle Gear Bruce Wayne, which someone stole from me, Hover Attack Batman, Jungle Venom Poison Ivy, Brain vs Brawn (two figures: Batman and Bane), and the batmobile.

6. The comic book adaptation. I read it before the movie I didn't care about spoilers back then.

I miss the 90s...

 

[Decepticonus]

No merchandise for me, I had more Batman Forever merch as a kid. I don't recall a game for B&R, but I think the movie bombed so hard that when the game came out they said screw it on promoting the game.

 

[The Joker]

So...B&R merch and crap:

1. Does anyone remember the Batman & Robin game on Playstation? It was a not-very-good version of Arkham Knight. You could drive the batmobile in a (mostly) open world, search for clues and stuff like that. You could play as Batman, Robin and Batgirl. It had annoying camera angles, stiff animations and horrible fighting mechanics. I still liked it You could even visit places like Axis Chemicals from the first movie, which I thought was pretty cool.

It was one of the first games I ever bought for my PS1. Although I realize the game is dreadful I still have a soft spot for it. I enjoyed going around Gotham collecting all the clues to figure out where the villains would strike. Some of the levels were fun to do like the museum, Ivy's lair, and the Botanical Gardens. I also thought it was cool how they divided the game story up over three days, which each one having a specific mission.

Day 1 - Stopping Freeze from stealing the diamonds for his freeze cannon
Day 2 - Stop Ivy and Bane
Day 3 - Gotham is frozen and you have to defrost it and beat Freeze again

I also liked how they changed the costumes and vehicles on Day 3 to the ones they used in the movie when the city was frozen.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

No merchandise for me, I had more Batman Forever merch as a kid. I don't recall a game for B&R, but I think the movie bombed so hard that when the game came out they said screw it on promoting the game.

That is possible, I didn't know about the game until I saw it in a video game store long after the movie came out.

It was one of the first games I ever bought for my PS1. Although I realize the game is dreadful I still have a soft spot for it. I enjoyed going around Gotham collecting all the clues to figure out where the villains would strike. Some of the levels were fun to do like the museum, Ivy's lair, and the Botanical Gardens. I also thought it was cool how they divided the game story up over three days, which each one having a specific mission.

Day 1 - Stopping Freeze from stealing the diamonds for his freeze cannon
Day 2 - Stop Ivy and Bane
Day 3 - Gotham is frozen and you have to defrost it and beat Freeze again

I also liked how they changed the costumes and vehicles on Day 3 to the ones they used in the movie when the city was frozen.

You had to stop them from stealing the diamonds, right? I used to drive around in the batmobile and beat up those weird-looking gang members who terrorized the good citizens of Gotham City..a city of justice, a city of peace. Gotham City.

By the way, did you think the game was a bit creepy? it creeped me out sometimes. Arkham Asylum in particular.

My brother played the first level. He entered first person mode to look for items, he turned around, and suddenly he stared into the face of one of Mr. Freeze's henchmen. He screamed and almost dropped the controller. Scared the crap out of me toot:

 

[The Joker]

You had to stop them from stealing the diamonds, right? I used to drive around in the batmobile and beat up those weird-looking gang members who terrorized the good citizens of Gotham City..a city of justice, a city of peace. Gotham City.

By the way, did you think the game was a bit creepy? it creeped me out sometimes. Arkham Asylum in particular.

My brother played the first level. He entered first person mode to look for items, he turned around, and suddenly he stared into the face of one of Mr. Freeze's henchmen. He screamed and almost dropped the controller. Scared the crap out of me toot:

Yeah you had to stop them from stealing diamonds in different places like the museum, and several jewelry stores, and of course the Botanical Gardens.

Yeah a couple of the levels had a creepy factor to them. That one in Ivy's Gilgamesh lab with the giant spiders and plant monsters that appeared out of the ground and walls was creepy. Arkham Asylum was great with the echoes in the halls and the screams and shrieks from the inmates.

The game had some good things about it.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Yeah you had to stop them from stealing diamonds in different places like the museum, and several jewelry stores, and of course the Botanical Gardens.

Yeah a couple of the levels had a creepy factor to them. That one with in Ivy's Gilgamesh lab with the giant spiders and plant monsters that appeared out of the ground and walls was creepy. Arkham Asylum was great with the echoes in the halls and the screams and shrieks from the inmates.

The game had some good things about it.

I remember those spiders. I used to suffer from arachnophobia, so that didn't help.

One thing that bothered me was that some of the special moves were ineffective. Some of the kicks didn't do any damage, it was just there because it looked cool.

Did you ever beat the game? I never did.

Discussing this game makes me want to play it again. I actually enjoyed it more than Arkham Asylum and Arkham City, to be honest. Maybe it's because gaming was more exciting when I was a kid.

I would say the game had many good things about it: the batcave, detective work, the ability to play as Batman, Robin and Batgirl, gadgets, vehicles etc. The main problem for me is the camera angles and bad controls. Batman is a bit stiff in his movements, but hey, it's the rubber suit!

Not a very good game, but not the worst. The Batman Beyond game was worse

 

[Kane52630]

This always makes me laugh

http://kane52630.tumblr.com/post/140484188519/the-same-plants-and-flowers-that-saw-you-crawl

 

[TMC1982]

Some insight from costume designer Bob Ringwood via Facebook:

Re the above photo…I had a heart attack during the filming and was rushed to hospital…the production designer and other people brought in to finish shooting the film started to alter my designs…including the hideous silver paint on these suits. I pleaded with Warners to return to complete the shoot but was refused entry to the studio…(Joel Schumacher hated me)….So I took my name off the film.

 

[TMC1982]

This always makes me laugh

http://kane52630.tumblr.com/post/140484188519/the-same-plants-and-flowers-that-saw-you-crawl

Bob Kane should've been utterly ashamed of himself that he allowed his wife to take part in this discretion of his creation. Then again, the way that Bill Finger (arguably the "real genius" behind Batman) was done dirty, the final Batman film in Kane's lifetime, being a major disaster, was perhaps the perfect sense of karma.

 

[TMC1982]

Batman & Robin: 25 things we learned from its making-of book

 

[Kane52630]

Bob Kane should've been utterly ashamed of himself that he allowed his wife to take part in this discretion of his creation. Then again, the way that Bill Finger (arguably the "real genius" behind Batman) was done dirty, the final Batman film in Kane's lifetime, being a major disaster, was perhaps the perfect sense of karma.

You seem irate about the whole thing.

 

[Kane52630]

http://kane52630.tumblr.com/post/141130000019/batman-robin

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

I love the evil laugh

 

[Matt.S99]

So...B&R merch and crap:

1. Does anyone remember the Batman & Robin game on Playstation? It was a not-very-good version of Arkham Knight. You could drive the batmobile in a (mostly) open world, search for clues and stuff like that. You could play as Batman, Robin and Batgirl. It had annoying camera angles, stiff animations and horrible fighting mechanics. I still liked it You could even visit places like Axis Chemicals from the first movie, which I thought was pretty cool.

Too bad about the horrible controls and camera angles. If they had changed a few things, it could have been a really good Batman game!

2. I also had a small handheld "tiger" game that was shaped as the batsymbol. A small Batman-figure was included, and you could use it as a joystick. Can't remember if I ever beat it. I think I preferred the Batman Forever version.

3. My aunt gave me some B&R coloring books. The art reminded me very much of BTAS (I still have them at my mother's house, and since I didn't color everything, I can give them to my daughters when they get older). Anyone else know what I'm talking about.

4. From my uncle I got a bag of wine gums shaped as Batman if Robin if I remember correctly. I haven't found any info about it on the internet, but I think it was German.

5. The action figures, of course. Battle Gear Bruce Wayne, which someone stole from me, Hover Attack Batman, Jungle Venom Poison Ivy, Brain vs Brawn (two figures: Batman and Bane), and the batmobile.

6. The comic book adaptation. I read it before the movie I didn't care about spoilers back then.

I miss the 90s...

Ha, I have #2 as well. In fact, I think I still know where it is.