The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 3

[Silver Spider]

While Arum is ridiculous, I doubt JCC Jr really wanted the fight. Junior's size is almost all he has; that was exposed by Fonfara. Youre not going to beat Golovkin by just being bigger that him. GGG's defense is very underrated. Just because he isn't doing Matrix moves like Floyd doesn't mean he's being hit a lot. Golovkin hardly gets hit flush and usually that's when he's throwing his own punches.
I would be fine with a Lara fight, but the casuals don't know him that well and a lot of hardcores would just criticize GGG for fighting a 154 pounder. Nobody in or around the division is chasing Lara because of his name value.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

GGG gets hit flush when he believes it doesn't matter. If he is fighting guys he doesn't think can hurt him, he fights like that.

 

[Docker2.0]

GGG is hit a lot when he allows himself to be hit a lot. Did you not watch the fight this weekend? He decided Lemieux was too dangerous to be hit by so he wasn't.

Your reaction to GGG is hilarious.

No I didn't watch the fight. Not paying for it(seems a lot of people didn't )but will watch it on HBO. And you are wrong about GGG getting hit when he feels like it. He got hit a lot by Stephenson as well and even he said that dude is a heavy puncher.

While Arum is ridiculous, I doubt JCC Jr really wanted the fight. Junior's size is almost all he has; that was exposed by Fonfara. Youre not going to beat Golovkin by just being bigger that him. GGG's defense is very underrated. Just because he isn't doing Matrix moves like Floyd doesn't mean he's being hit a lot. Golovkin hardly gets hit flush and usually that's when he's throwing his own punches.
I would be fine with a Lara fight, but the casuals don't know him that well and a lot of hardcores would just criticize GGG for fighting a 154 pounder. Nobody in or around the division is chasing Lara because of his name value.

Sergio Martinez was killing JCC Jr until he got caught one time. Compared to Sergio, JCC Jr is huge and the constant leaning and holding is going to wear you down, especially with the size difference. And Sergio has a lot more movement that GGG. I'm not knocking GGG because I do think he has solid power and a good chin but his defense leaves a lot to be desired which is why I think a good boxer will beat him.

 

[Iron_Stark]

So the NSAC finally did something good, they said "NO" to the Andre Ward vs Rohan Murdock mismatch that was going to happen on the Canelo/Cotto undercard. If Ward want to be the next big star or get the big fights, he needs to stop with these tune ups and mismatches.

Rohan Murdock isn't even ranked top 20 in all the major organizations and publications.

Horrible on Ward and his team's part.

 

[Docker2.0]

I actually agree. I know they are working toward a showdown with Kovalev but from my understanding, Kovalev's next 2 fights are going to pretty hard while Ward's will be a lot easier. Also from my understanding, Ward's move to LHW isn't permanent, it's only for the Kovalev mega fight so he's going to go back down to SMW. Why not just fight a SMW?

 

[Silver Spider]

No I didn't watch the fight. Not paying for it(seems a lot of people didn't )but will watch it on HBO. And you are wrong about GGG getting hit when he feels like it. He got hit a lot by Stephenson as well and even he said that dude is a heavy puncher.

Golovkin really didn't get hit that much against Stevens. His face looked just fine and Curtis barely went to the body in that fight. GGG takes a lot off of punches that look like they are landing clean.

Sergio Martinez was killing JCC Jr until he got caught one time. Compared to Sergio, JCC Jr is huge and the constant leaning and holding is going to wear you down, especially with the size difference. And Sergio has a lot more movement that GGG. I'm not knocking GGG because I do think he has solid power and a good chin but his defense leaves a lot to be desired which is why I think a good boxer will beat him.

Maravilla was 37 when he fought Junior; two fights removed from retirement and a debilitating knee injury. As much as I love Sergio, GGG is a better technical boxer in comparison. Coming at Golovkin in straight lines with a high guard would be target practice. I don't disagree that a good boxer can beat him, but imo they need to be a good boxer with a good chin, good gas tank, and the size advantage.

 

[Docker2.0]

No, Stevens hit GGG clean numerous times, he just couldn't hurt him. GGG's chin is just that good. GGG has power but him fighting and trading with a Cruiserweight is not good for him. There are weight classes for a reason.
And Sergio looked excellent in that fight. His knee didn't bother him until during the fight when he fell funny but JCC leaned on him a lot which wears you down. Much like Wlad did against Povenkin or however you spell it. That's why there are rules against the excessive holding. GGG and Sergio are two different kinds of fighters and both are good at what they do.

 

[Silver Spider]

I don't know how to convince you that GGG actually has solid defense; maybe watch some of Wilson Kayden's Youtube analysis videos on Golovkin. Stevens' vaunted left hook landed only a handful of times, and most of the time it was rolled. He landed a couple good combinations and that was it.
Ultimately, Sergio was a 154 pounder who was good enough to move up and beat 160 pound guys. He got dropped a lot during his career, although JCC Jr did hurt him more than most others do; however it took him over 11 rounds to finally land something of note. The Wlad/Povetkin fight is legitimately one of the worst fights I've ever seen. That amount of holding should never be allowed.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Don't bother, Docker will never admit when he is wrong, even when he picks the wrong guy, which he does quite often. He divides his like and dislike for fighters down certain lines and he never sways.

 

[Fallen Angel]

What are we arguing about now?

 

[Docker2.0]

What are we arguing about now?

GGG's defense. Dude gets hit all the time at will. I don't even see how this is a debate. Why would someone admit to "letting" someone hit them to make a fight interesting? I swear, somethings that people come up with just because they like a fighter.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Dude does get hit but none of the fighters are capable of rocking him that's the problem. I figure you have to be slick to beat him unless you connect with a once in a lifetime KO punch. I'm thinking Marquez in the 4th Pacman fight.

 

[Docker2.0]

Dude does get hit but none of the fighters are capable of rocking him that's the problem. I figure you have to be slick to beat him unless you connect with a once in a lifetime KO punch. I'm thinking Marquez in the 4th Pacman fight.

That's it. That's all I'm saying. He lacks defense but his chin kinds of makes up for it which is why I don't think him fighting JCC Jr. is not good because dude is way out of his weight class. And even though he's tailer made for GGG to beat because he's a come forward fighter, that weight will play a huge difference.

 

[Silver Spider]

We can agree to disagree, I suppose.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Dude does get hit but none of the fighters are capable of rocking him that's the problem. I figure you have to be slick to beat him unless you connect with a once in a lifetime KO punch. I'm thinking Marquez in the 4th Pacman fight.

Did any one actually watch the fight this weekend? He decided he wasn't going to get hit and he didn't get hit.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Did any one actually watch the fight this weekend? He decided he wasn't going to get hit and he didn't get hit.

I wasn't specifically talking about his last fight Darth but he does get tagged, it's just that no one he's fought so far is capable of doing any kind of damage to him. His defence is good but let's not pretend he's a master defensive boxer or something.

The Middleweight division is quite poor at the moment in terms of talent.

 

[Docker2.0]

I wasn't specifically talking about his last fight Darth but he does get tagged, it's just that no one he's fought so far is capable of doing any kind of damage to him. His defence is good but let's not pretend he's a master defensive boxer or something.

The Middleweight division is quite poor at the moment in terms of talent.

That's what I don't get. People are taking it like we are knocking GGG. No, we are not but dude has suspect defense, hasn't fought a name yet but yet he's some how in the top 10 P4P. Canelo has faced way better comp and "won" but he's not even in the top 10. Let's just call a spade a spade.

 

[Silver Spider]

Did any one actually watch the fight this weekend? He decided he wasn't going to get hit and he didn't get hit.

I did, and Lemieux could hardly touch him. However, Lemieux isn't exactly an offensive genius.

I wasn't specifically talking about his last fight Darth but he does get tagged, it's just that no one he's fought so far is capable of doing any kind of damage to him. His defence is good but let's not pretend he's a master defensive boxer or something.

The Middleweight division is quite poor at the moment in terms of talent.

That's all I ask. I'm not saying he's Mayweather or Rigo, but Docker makes it sound like GGG is a walking punching bag a la Rios/Provodnikov, when he's not.

Nobody is accusing the Middleweight division of being strong; there are some solid contenders but no elite fighters for Golovkin to fight.

That's what I don't get. People are taking it like we are knocking GGG. No, we are not but dude has suspect defense, hasn't fought a name yet but yet he's some how in the top 10 P4P. Canelo has faced way better comp and "won" but he's not even in the top 10. Let's just call a spade a spade.

P4P lists are subjective and shouldn't really be taken too seriously. Nobody knows whether you're supposed to count resume, or legacy, or eye-test. It's too arbitrary.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I am a Canelo fan and he is willing to fight anyone apparently, but people aren't avoiding him. Cotto and Canelo are fighting each other because they don't want to fight GGG. That is all you need to know.

I wasn't specifically talking about his last fight Darth but he does get tagged, it's just that no one he's fought so far is capable of doing any kind of damage to him. His defence is good but let's not pretend he's a master defensive boxer or something.

The Middleweight division is quite poor at the moment in terms of talent.

Is he a master defensive fighter no? But he is very good one, who does it differently. GGG defense isn't based on movement, but controlling distances and making his opponent's not want to hit him. His use of the jab was brilliant and shows what he is capable of.

I wouldn't say Middleweight is poor, Id simply say that GGG is much better then everyone else and the best guys in the division don't want to fight him.

 

[Docker2.0]

I don't think Canelo is afraid of GGG at all, I think his team is. A lot of people seem to give GGG the edge over Canelo by saying he gases in the later rounds but that is due to him having to cut weight. Him fighting GGG at full MW may solve some of that problem. I'd say its a 50/50 fight.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't think Canelo is afraid of GGG at all, I think his team is. A lot of people seem to give GGG the edge over Canelo by saying he gases in the later rounds but that is due to him having to cut weight. Him fighting GGG at full MW may solve some of that problem. I'd say its a 50/50 fight.

Canelo's team isn't stupid. They fear him for a reason. Also, Canelo is a small middleweight. He cuts weight because he needs to.

 

[Docker2.0]

You mean height wise? Because dude is said to walk around as heavy as 175-180. I think he weighs more than GGG.

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm not familiar with Roman Gonzalez, never heard of the guy until last year but I honestly don't see how he's ranked #1 p4p on any poll. He's exciting but lacks a lot. Also, anyone notice ESPN's P4P ranking? With the exception of Rigo, all of the top 10 are all HBO fighters! I mean, not one Al Haymon fighter is ranked in the top 10. And before someone says that ESPN plays PBC fights, PBC pays ESPN to display those fights. Garcia(despite the Salka thing)or even Amir Khan should be ranked top 10 over (yes I'm about to say it!)Manny at this point in his career.

 

[Silver Spider]

I'm not familiar with Roman Gonzalez, never heard of the guy until last year but I honestly don't see how he's ranked #1 p4p on any poll. He's exciting but lacks a lot. Also, anyone notice ESPN's P4P ranking? With the exception of Rigo, all of the top 10 are all HBO fighters! I mean, not one Al Haymon fighter is ranked in the top 10. And before someone says that ESPN plays PBC fights, PBC pays ESPN to display those fights. Garcia(despite the Salka thing)or even Amir Khan should be ranked top 10 over (yes I'm about to say it!)Manny at this point in his career.

If you haven't seen Chocolatito until this year, you can't really criticize him; he is as close to a perfect fighter as there is today. He beats almost everybody in both eye-test and resume.
There is no obligation to put a Haymon fighter in an arbitrary P4P list. DSG became one of my favorite fighters from the Khan fight to the Matthysse fight, but since that stretch he's done nothing but disappoint. Khan hasn't done anything impressive since the Garcia KO loss, besides beat a shopworn Devon Alexander.
Who cares about ESPN's P4P list especially. If you're going to trust any list look at The Ring's. But I'll say it again: P4P lists don't really matter.

 

[Silver Spider]

Meanwhile, Crawford is looking very good at 140. I was a little skeptical about his power after Dulorme but it was on display against a tough guy tonight. And we know he's got the skillset and ring IQ already.