The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 4

[DarthSkywalker]

True dat, but what I was saying is that I don't get the need to move up to be considered the best. Yeah, there's more money as you move up. No doubt. Boxing is about hype. "If" people didn't all try to push upwards and got the right hype, the money would come. That, however, isn't how the game works right now.

Conor isn't going to make a boatload of $$$ because he's a great fighter. It's because he's a showman. Ask our boys and girls who frequent the wrestling thread. You make your money behind the mike.

He may or may not have been the greatest fighter of all time, but you know who the best promoter in the history of boxing was? Muhammad Ali. Promoting an Ali fight was the easiest thing in the world. All you had to do was stand back and watch Picasso do his thing.

You are right. But then these guys move up to make the money, lose, and suddenly they are bums or not as good as they were billed.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You mad bro?

You'll be aight.

PS- last time responding to you concerning this fight. If you can't respond like an adult, no need to continue to talk.

You are implying I am racist for no reason whatsoever, and then you talk about acting like an adult. Sure.

 

[Docker2.0]

You are accusing me of being racist for no reason whatsoever, and then you talk about acting like an adult. Sure.

YOU brought up European(twist it around but we know what you meant)but I'm bringing up race?! LOL! Dude! Take this L! But again, I just had to respond. Real talk, I'm done talking boxing with you concerning this fight. We don't see eye to eye. Good night.

 

[InCali]

I finally saw the replay that showed the end, and the final punches were definitely low. Because of that I don't really like the stoppage as it was, but Ward was clearly headed towards a decisive victory.

Low blows clearly didn't help, but I think Kovalev was fading regardless. I don't think the stoppage stole a win from Kovalev as much as it just ended the fight prematurely.

Have you ever boxed? I'm curious because I think if you had, you'd look at things just a little bit differently. I've seen some weird $#!t happen in fights and I've seen enough to know that you NEVER know what's going to happen. Low blows are illegal for a reason. I didn't see the fight and don't have an opinion on it, but if anyone thinks that getting hit on the south side can't turn a fight, they've never, uh, well....

It's illegal for a reason and when it happens, it needs to be called and rules are in place when it does happen. It can be points deducted (did that happen?), a break for the guy who got hit (though it's a break for both parties), or disqualification. That's all I'm saying.

 

[InCali]

You are right. But then these guys move up to make the money, lose, and suddenly they are bums or not as good as they were billed.

Yup. And it's BS.

 

[Silver Spider]

I don't think you can claim someone is fading fairly when they are getting hit consistently below the belt. There is a reason why those are illegal. The finally two were just crap frosting on a crappy cake. It was the stuff before that that started all of it.

Kovalev always fades, and he wasn't exactly looking fresh even before the 7th. There were clear low blows but not to the point that I think they were malicious.

I think we are just going to disagree on the effect the low blows ultimately had on Kovalev. Maybe they did give the momentum to Ward, but I'm leaning more towards thinking they were not enough of a factor to cry foul play.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

YOU brought up European(twist it around but we know what you meant)but I'm bringing up race?! LOL! :LMAO: Dude! Take this L! But again, I just had to respond. Real talk, I'm done talking boxing with you concerning this fight. We don't see eye to eye. Good night.

No, I meant Europeans. Because you crap on careers of guys like Kovalev, GGG and Lomo all the time. That you see race there is your issue. That you project it onto me, implying I am somehow racist is not only a coward's way of avoiding what you said, it is also a personal attack with no bias. One you have avoided trying to answer because you know what you meant. Again, how did I see race in this conversation or this fight? Because you are heavily implying I have problem with non-white fighters.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I didn't see any low blows.

 

[Docker2.0]

I didn't see any low blows.

Not going to lie, I saw low blows.............but it just shows that boxing really is seen in black and white. Geez! The great white hype and Rocky are closer to real life than people realize. And if not, people will darn near make it out to be.

Just kind of venting man.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Kovalev always fades, and he wasn't exactly looking fresh even before the 7th. There were clear low blows but not to the point that I think they were malicious.

I think we are just going to disagree on the effect the low blows ultimately had on Kovalev. Maybe they did give the momentum to Ward, but I'm leaning more towards thinking they were not enough of a factor to cry foul play.

He hit him low before the 7th as well. That is what is crazy about this. He did it 5 times clearly.

If they review this correctly, the fight is going to become a non constant, becuase the ref blew the fight on two consecutive low blows.

This was basically Lomachenko fighting Salido.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Not going to lie, I saw low blows.............but it just shows that boxing really is seen in black and white. Geez! The great white hype and Rocky are closer to real life than people realize. And if not, people will darn near make it out to be.

Just kind of venting man.

Says he isn't talking about race, talks about "the great white hype".

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I didn't see any low blows.

You better hope the NSAC don't see it on the tape.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Have you ever boxed? I'm curious because I think if you had, you'd look at things just a little bit differently. I've seen some weird $#!t happen in fights and I've seen enough to know that you NEVER know what's going to happen. Low blows are illegal for a reason. I didn't see the fight and don't have an opinion on it, but if anyone thinks that getting hit on the south side can't turn a fight, they've never, uh, well....

It's illegal for a reason and when it happens, it needs to be called and rules are in place when it does happen. It can be points deducted (did that happen?), a break for the guy who got hit (though it's a break for both parties), or disqualification. That's all I'm saying.

He warned Ward early. In the first 4 or 5 rounds. Then when it happened again, he just ignored it.

 

[InCali]

No, I meant Europeans. Because you crap on careers of guys like Kovalev, GGG and Lomo all the time. That you see race there is your issue. That you project it onto me, implying I am somehow racist is not only a coward's way of avoiding what you said, it is also a personal attack with no bias. One you have avoided trying to answer because you know what you meant. Again, how did I see race in this conversation or this fight? Because you are heavily implying I have problem with non-white fighters.

I thought you meant, Docker had a bias against European fighters and didn't think it was "race" related. My father was a professional fighter and had a bias against east coast fighters (being from the west coast). He felt that they got more hype and more money. That was back when going coast to coast was more of a pain in the @$$ than it is now.

 

[Silver Spider]

Have you ever boxed? I'm curious because I think if you had, you'd look at things just a little bit differently. I've seen some weird $#!t happen in fights and I've seen enough to know that you NEVER know what's going to happen. Low blows are illegal for a reason. I didn't see the fight and don't have an opinion on it, but if anyone thinks that getting hit on the south side can't turn a fight, they've never, uh, well....

It's illegal for a reason and when it happens, it needs to be called and rules are in place when it does happen. It can be points deducted (did that happen?), a break for the guy who got hit (though it's a break for both parties), or disqualification. That's all I'm saying.

I admit I have not; very protective mother growing up.
No boxing for me, no football for my brother.

But since I don't have that experience, I am willing to concede this point. I absolutely understand that low blows can effect fights; Mares-Agbeko is an example that comes to mind. But in this fight I just don't believe the low blows were egregious enough to say that they are the reason Ward won.

I wouldn't have been surprised if Ward had lost a point because he had already been warned, but no he didn't end up being penalized.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I thought you meant, Docker had a bias against European fighters and didn't think it was "race" related. My father was a professional fighter and had a bias against east coast fighters (being from the west coast). He felt that they got more hype and more money. That was back when going coast to coast was more of a pain in the @$$ than it is now.

Yep. One of the reasons I hate watching British boxing is according to the commentators every fighter from that place was the greatest fighter ever, and only lost because they took on one of the great champions in history. Even if it is for a British title.

It is a far cry from when you see Lampley crapping on bad opponents constantly.

 

[InCali]

I admit I have not; very protective mother growing up.
No boxing for me, no football for my brother.

But since I don't have that experience, I am willing to concede this point. I absolutely understand that low blows can effect fights; Mares-Agbeko is an example that comes to mind. But in this fight I just don't believe the low blows were egregious enough to say that they are the reason Ward won.

I wouldn't have been surprised if Ward had lost a point because he had already been warned, but no he didn't end up being penalized.

LOL. It frickin' hurts. Wanna know what else? It doesn't have to be a shot to those sensitive little things we're all so worried about. You take a shot right below the belt to the outside of your hip and it can make your leg not work for awhile. Never try to fight someone on one leg.

Hey, you could be right. I didn't see the fight, but ya can't do that stuff. My mom and grandma never would watch my dad fight and he hid it from his mom early in his career.....which really didn't last all that long. He was good, but had other priorities in his life. Like women....and partying....

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I admit I have not; very protective mother growing up.
No boxing for me, no football for my brother.

But since I don't have that experience, I am willing to concede this point. I absolutely understand that low blows can effect fights; Mares-Agbeko is an example that comes to mind. But in this fight I just don't believe the low blows were egregious enough to say that they are the reason Ward won.

I wouldn't have been surprised if Ward had lost a point because he had already been warned, but no he didn't end up being penalized.

My mother was the same. No boxing, no football. Thankfully my father was willing to lie to her about boxing.

I think it is disingenuous to say it didn't effect the fight, when the round that it ended had 3 of them at least.

 

[Silver Spider]

LOL. It frickin' hurts. Wanna know what else? It doesn't have to be a shot to those sensitive little things we're all so worried about. You take a shot right below the belt to the outside of your hip and it can make your leg not work for awhile. Never try to fight someone on one leg.

Hey, you could be right. I didn't see the fight, but ya can't do that stuff. My mom and grandma never would watch my dad fight and he hid it from his mom early in his career.....which really didn't last all that long. He was good, but had other priorities in his life. Like women....and partying....

Like I said, I'm willing to admit I could be wrong. But in this case I'm going to defend the Ward victory.

Women and partying are also prerequisites for elite athletes as well, no? t:

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Like I said, I'm willing to admit I could be wrong. But in this case I'm going to defend the Ward victory.

Women and partying are also prerequisites for elite athletes as well, no? t:

Apparently Ronaldo parties a lot, but he also apparently doesn't drink. I wonder how that works....

 

[B]

It's all kicked off in here I see.

Not that scorecards matter, but at the time of watching I had Ward up by 1 round by the stoppage, I will rewatch the contest again though at some point because it felt like it was close while watching.

The stoppage was dreadful though, Kovalev was obviously still not 100% after he ate that right hand from Ward, however he wasn't hurt enough or taking enough punishment to stop the fight, but there is absolutely no question that the punches that made Kovalev keel over were clearly low blows, a good 2-3 of them in succession. I didn't notice it myself at the time but I read that Kovalev complained during other rounds that Ward had repeatedly caught him low.

Very poor stoppage IMO.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Ward was taking control again. Kovalev looked out of it in the mid rounds.

I had Ward up by a round anyway.

 

[Doc Samson]

I think it is disingenuous to say it didn't effect the fight, when the round that it ended had 3 of them at least.

I think it's more disingenuous to pretend that low blows (which are arguable IMO) are the sole reason for the stoppage. The straight right was what hurt him, clearly. He got hit with more hooks after that, that didn't help his situation. Add to it that he's known to fade, and yes, belt line shots would double him over.

Nobody in here has drawn more comparisons between Ward and Hopkins than me, and I'm a fan. He can definitely be rough, toe the line, and go over too. I don't consider him out and out dirty, but like Hopkins, he's good at getting whatever he can past the ref. I acknowledge all that. But this was far from dirty or even tactical. Most of those shots were right on the line...

 

[B]

I think it's more disingenuous to pretend that low blows (which are arguable IMO) are the sole reason for the stoppage. The straight right was what hurt him, clearly. He got hit with more hooks after that, that didn't help his situation. Add to it that he's known to fade, and yes, belt line shots would double him over.

Those final 3 blows Ward lands on Kovalev aren't arguable, they are all low blows & below the belt, they were also the shots that ended the fight.

Kovalev was hurt by the right hand & was obviously stunned & wobbled initially, but he was still moving & defending himself intelligently making Ward miss, had he not been hit by those 3 low blows he more than likely would have survived the round as there was only 30 more seconds to go. The low blows were as crucial to the stoppage as the initial right hand.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's all kicked off in here I see.

Not that scorecards matter, but at the time of watching I had Ward up by 1 round by the stoppage, I will rewatch the contest again though at some point because it felt like it was close while watching.

The stoppage was dreadful though, Kovalev was obviously still not 100% after he ate that right hand from Ward, however he wasn't hurt enough or taking enough punishment to stop the fight, but there is absolutely no question that the punches that made Kovalev keel over were clearly low blows, a good 2-3 of them in succession. I didn't notice it myself at the time but I read that Kovalev complained during other rounds that Ward had repeatedly caught him low.

Very poor stoppage IMO.

Exactly. He sits on the ropes because he is getting hit low and then the ref stops it.

As to Kovalev complaining, three times in the fight Kovalev bent over at the knees and looked at the ref indicating he was hit low. The first time the ref warned Ward. The other 2 times, he told them to keep fighting, including right before the big right hand.

You can say Ward was winning. I don't agree, but it was also a very close fight with only two super clear rounds imo. One was the 4th for Ward, the other was either the second or third for Kovalev imo. But you don't end a fight like that and just saying, "well Kovalev was on his way out" is not a valid argument in the least.