The Official Detective Comics Thread

[The Joker]

Really enjoyed the latest issue. Had no idea what was going on with Kathy Kane, but the references to her troubled past, and these new religious villains was very intriguing.

 

[Nepenthes]

I have a strong feeling that when this is done it's gonna stand among the classic "batman" trades. and we've only seen one issue.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Really enjoyed the latest issue. Had no idea what was going on with Kathy Kane, but the references to her troubled past, and these new religious villains was very intriguing.

You should check out The Question: The Five Books of Blood (also by Rucka ) it gives more insight into the religious villains and it's very cool too.

I have a strong feeling that when this is done it's gonna stand among the classic "batman" trades. and we've only seen one issue.

I totally agree. This has every potential to be one of my favorite "Batman" stories.

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

I finally picked up my issue. I have to say I didnt care for it. I think Ill keep passing on 'tec until Batman becomes the main focus again.

 

[K.B.]

I agree this is one of the best Bat books out there and I hope it sales show DC how stupid they were to not release this years ago and why a title shouldn't be tossed around and avoided just cuz a character is gay.

 

[Figs]

I have a strong feeling that when this is done it's gonna stand among the classic "batman" trades. and we've only seen one issue.

Is there a subtitle to this run of Detective comics? Or is it all just under Detective Comics #....?

 

[Cain]

JH Williams III effing rules man this is the best artwork on a Bat book IMO since his work on Morrison's International Club of Heroes arc. But the story wasn't too engaging to me because well we don't know her very well yet. Yeah she had that crime bible mini series but I skipped that so in that sense I didn't even really find the villains too involving just yet. Would be great to get a Bruno Manheim appearance in this arc though. I look forward to seeing where it goes but overall I enjoyed The Question back up even more.

 

[GlasgowBat]

not a bad issue, but i don't really understand this "among the all-time greats" guff is coming from...........

in such a thin issue, what possibly indicated this? other than the fact that it's rucka, i'm not seing a reason to be so excited. 4th best of this series of "1st" issues of the new batman era.

 

[Alfreds Butler]

I am Alfreds butler! And that b*****d steals all the glory, I FEED master Bruce while Alfred serves and takes all the credit while I don't even get a appearance. It has gone on to long and now I will write Alfred R.I.P I will be the new butler for this new era u shall all see.

 

[K.B.]

Jeeze why does everyone want the whole story given to them in the first issue?

 

[boywondernerdDC]

I really liked this issue a ton. I am excited for everything to come in the series. The minor cliffhanger ending has me anxious for the next issue. And as much as I love the Batman himself, it is great to see some of Batwoman and some other characters. (Loved The Question backup too)

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I really enjoyed the issue... amazing art

I don't know alot about Batwoman but I want to learn, which means Rucka did his job with the first issue.


Plus... that wasn't the slightly modified Dick Grayson Batman costume... it was Bruce Wayne's...

Did J.H Williams III just not get the memo?

 

[K.B.]

Plus... that wasn't the slightly modified Dick Grayson Batman costume... it was Bruce Wayne's...

Did J.H Williams III just not get the memo?

No this book was done years ago but DC let it sit on a shelf because they were afraid to publish a book where the lead is gay.

 

[Nepenthes]

DC let it sit on a shelf because they were afraid to publish a book where the lead is gay.

this makes no sense at all. are you making this up?

Plus... that wasn't the slightly modified Dick Grayson Batman costume... it was Bruce Wayne's..

Williams has been working on this book for "more than two years" now. It could have easily been written before ***** takeover was planned.

 

[K.B.]

this makes no sense at all. are you making this up?

Sadly, no. Back shortly after she was introduced in 52 it was announced that Rucka and Williams would do a Batwoman solo book (12 issues I believe). After it was done DC went all wishy washy on it giving the typical and lame answers of "it's not time for it" "do fans even want it" yadda yadda....while DC will deny it was because the main character is gay, I think its pretty evident friom the behind the scenes stories.

 

[boywondernerdDC]

That is pathetic that they felt they had to do that. I mean they're comics and the readership is all comic nerds...we accept everyone, except jocks and even some of them are alright

 

[ultrasuperduckman]

Okay so I just bought it. I really, really liked it. Few questions though.

First off. Maybe I'm just a total idiot ( Once again, no jokes) but why in the scenes with her girlfriend did she have short hair, then when she put on the costume she had her long hair again? Am I missing something here. I know Batman said to do something about it....

Which leads me to my next question. If this book is a few years old and it's being released now. Is it the story set two years ago? Or are they going to just "bump" it up to recent times?

 

[CrimsonMist]

Okay so I just bought it. I really, really liked it. Few questions though.

First off. Maybe I'm just a total idiot ( Once again, no jokes) but why in the scenes with her girlfriend did she have short hair, then when she put on the costume she had her long hair again? Am I missing something here. I know Batman said to do something about it....

The long hair is part of her cowl. An attached wig, if you will.

 

[ultrasuperduckman]

Right thank you Mr. Mist. That's what I was thinking.

 

[K.B.]

I pray to god that DC just lets it be and doesnt try to shoe horn current continuity into it.

 

[Nepenthes]

Sadly, no. Back shortly after she was introduced in 52 it was announced that Rucka and Williams would do a Batwoman solo book (12 issues I believe). After it was done DC went all wishy washy on it giving the typical and lame answers of "it's not time for it" "do fans even want it" yadda yadda....while DC will deny it was because the main character is gay, I think its pretty evident friom the behind the scenes stories.

so yeah, you're making it up

there could be any number of reasons why the held off releasing it. I can think of three reasons that actually make sense, compared to yours which is devoid

a) why would DC create a gay character if they weren't gonna be prepared to release material about her?
b) they released it just now, showing that clearly, they're not afraid of it

Other reasons for the delay
a) Williams works very slowly, this is 12 issues and he's already been working on it for two years
b) Countdown/52 etc had to finish as it takes place before
c) A "new era" and title shake-up is a good opportunity to slot in into a main book, increasing the chances it will be in the spotlight. The fact they've given her Detective Comics shows they're obviously very proud

 

[Majic Walrus]

so yeah, you're making it up

there could be any number of reasons why the held off releasing it. I can think of three reasons that actually make sense, compared to yours which is devoid

a) why would DC create a gay character if they weren't gonna be prepared to release material about her?
b) they released it just now, showing that clearly, they're not afraid of it

Other reasons for the delay
a) Williams works very slowly, this is 12 issues and he's already been working on it for two years
b) Countdown/52 etc had to finish as it takes place before
c) A "new era" and title shake-up is a good opportunity to slot in into a main book, increasing the chances it will be in the spotlight. The fact they've given her Detective Comics shows they're obviously very proud

This is probably right. This is the perfect time for Batwoman because Batman (Bruce Wayne) is dead, Dick has been limited to B&R and Batman so there's a long running book that needs a hero.

If Batwoman came out during RIP or Final Crisis it would've failed hard.

 

[K.B.]

Actually I'm not making it up at all.

Here's a good article about it from 2007 which talks about it and also chats with original writer Devin Grayson.

http://www.afterellen.com/blwe/08-17-2007?page=0,3

Most will be to lazy to click the link so here is a little quote from her:

“That reversal really surprised and disappointed me,” Grayson admitted. “I won't pretend not to be resentful of how badly DC treated me in that exchange, but the majority of my concern and sympathy goes out to the character, who was basically thrown away by a company which had a lot of support to make her successful and unique. My experiences up to that point had been much more positive, although admittedly less ambitious, and it was really sad and discouraging to see the ball so badly dropped.”

And lets not forget the handy dandy timeline:

September 26, 2005 - The earliest reference to a rumored Batwoman book that I can find without spending hours searching comes from Rich Jonhston’s Lying In The Gutters. Under the header “Back to the Bat”, it simply read: “After “Infinite Crisis,” look for a new “Mystery In Space” series and a new Batwoman series. Should provide lots of wiggle room.”


September – October 2005 – This is what I think is a probable date for the start of project development. Devyn Grayson mentions that she learned her Batwoman project is scuttled by reading a newspaper article. See the entry for July 19th, 2007.



The Sunday New York Times piece (May 27th, 2006) mentions that Batwoman will appear for the first time in 52. The following day’s Newsarama interview with Dan Didio may be the real source. See the entry for May 28th, 2006. The initial rumor reports may help to substantiate this probable time frame. A Google search contains references in links to USA Today also running an article. Searching the website’s online archives doesn’t yield any useful information.


October 23, 2005 – First rumor report in the old All The Rage column, attaching the names Gail Simone and John Byrne to the project.


December 27, 2005 – Under the header “Gay Award”, Johnston attaches homosexuality to the rumored Batwoman series, and suggests it will beat the Midnighter comic to the shelf, making it the first ongoing title with a gay lead.


December 27, 2005 – Writing for All The Rage, John Voulieris, reports a similar rumor. In the “Not That There Is Anything Wrong With That” section, he writes:



“One of the big rumours coming out of DC these days is that one of the existing DCU superheroes will come out of the closet during the One Year Later event next summer. This is supposedly a silver age character who has been part of the DCU for decades. Let the speculation begin!
DC has also hinted that they will publish a new series that features a brand new superhero character whose civilian identity is openly gay, as well as a new solo series from Wildstorm featuring the Midnighter.”
February 6, 2006 – The rumor resurfaces again in LITG. “And right now, DC have plans to publish a Batwoman series, with a lesbian character in the lead.”


March 5, 2006 – All The Rage, under “Bats Aplenty”, reports that Dan
DiDio said Barbara Gordon wouldn’t resume her career as Batgirl, but it doesn’t exclude another character from using a similar [costume] in the forthcoming Batwoman.


May 7, 2006 – All The Rage wonders if Jimmy Palmiotti, Justin Gray and Amanda Conner are working on a Batwoman mini series. Not right at all though the rumor did involve a Batwoman. The book in question is a one-shot tie in to COUNTDOWN, the long-winded title: COUNTDOWN PRESENTS THE SEARCH FOR RAY PALMER: SUPERWOMAN/BATWOMAN #1.


May 27, 2006 – Partial confirmation of the rumor appears in the New York Times article with Dan DiDio talking about more diversity and Batwoman’s sexuality in DC Comics. Religious conservatives and many straight fan boys share in the cascading aneurysm that follows.


I wonder if Warner Bros executives had any idea its little subsidiary DC had a lesbian Batwoman comic in the planning stages before the newspaper article exploded the news. Did Warner Bros assume the worst and wanting to protect its investment and income potential, call up DiDio or Paul Levitz sometime between the Sunday Times piece and DiDio’s interview with Newsarama the following day and tell DC to put the project on the backburner immediately?


May 28, 2006 – Newsarama’s Matt Brady interviews Dan DiDio about the newly confirmed Batwoman. Quotes from DiDio include:

“…one of the things I’d like to see, at least in the beginning, is to see her as a character who will be appearing primarily in 52. Then, we’ll be exploring things in different ways.”


“I think this is a character that can really benefit from appearing in different books first before we test the waters with her on her own.”



June 5, 2006 – Only eight days after the New York Times piece, LITG’s Johnston attaches Devin Grayson and Dustin Nguyen as the creative team on the book. Not much time at all between the Times story and being given names, one of which we know was indeed connected to the project.
Johnston notes “…the coverage has been generally positive and welcoming. Some have seen this as indicative of a sea change, especially in American society. It’s certainly different from the mauling Marvel received over “Rawhide Kid” which made them rather risk-averse in this area.”


Well, there was some evidence that Batwoman wasn’t welcomed by all as seen in this video from CNN reporter Jeanne Moos. Perhaps of more concern to WB was a podcast from Concerned Women for America’s Robert Knight. The last thingWB would want to avoid is a backlash fueled by the Religious Right similar to what Marvel experienced.


July, 2006 –Batwoman makes her first cameo appearance in 52 #7, followed by a more prominent role in 52 # 11. Other appearances in tandem with Renée Montoya follow throughout the series.



December 10, 2006 – Under “Yuletide Rage”, All The Rage reports Greg Rucka and Joe Benitez are slotted to work on a five issue story featuring Supergirl and Batwoman to run in SUPERMAN/BATMAN.


December 10, 2006 – The DCU Infinite Holiday Special one-shot includes a short story written by Greg Rucka that features Batwoman. It is the first and to date only solo story for the character.

May 2, 2007 – DC Direct Batwoman action figure available for the price of $18.99.


July 16, 2007 – In the ”Prince William” section, LITG tentatively names JH Williams III as new Batwoman artist.


July 19, 2007 – In the “Homosexuality in Comics” article on CBR, Devin Grayson publicly confirms being the writer and eight months in to the developing stage of a Batwoman comic before finding out through a newspaper article that her project was dead. The only remaining unconfirmed part of the rumor is whether Dustin Nguyen was the artist. Nguyen went on to other assignments while presumably none were offered to Grayson.


Grayson’s comments have, to my knowledge, never been acknowledged by anyone at DC and likely never will be. Still, with few exceptions comics pros aren’t known for publicly biting the hand that feeds them, so to speak. I’ve no doubt her account is 100 % accurate. The courtesy of an apology is the least DiDio could do.


August 17, 2007 – Some of the same points made by Grayson in the CBR article are reiterated by AfterEllen’s Editor in Chief Sarah Warn in an article ironically titled “Best. Lesbian. Week. Ever.”If there is a silver lining, it’s that the article brought the matter to the attention of the greater LGBT community.

October 8, 2007 – DC solicits in advance a Batwoman bust, calling her the “crime-fighting partner of Batman.” Jim Maddox sculpts the bust from a Terry Dodson design. The item is scheduled to go on sale May 7, 2008.


October 8, 2007 – LITG reports the rumor that Greg Rucka will join JH Williams III on Batwoman. Under “Two Men and a Lesbian”</a>: “This was meant to be announced during the summer conventions. It’s still being delayed - a mixture of managing professional workload, and DC’s nervousness about potentially damaging a brand with the publicity a title lead gay Bat-character may bring, and the release of “The Dark Knight” movie.”


Dark Knight was filming in Chicago during the height of the summer convention season. Wizard’s Chicago convention is one of the big summer events.

November 5, 2007 – LITG reports a rumor that the Batwoman series is held back because of the impending Batman movie in summer 2008. “And what of Batwoman? Well, I’m told the launch of the Rucka/Williams series has been pushed back yet again because of the movie, and fears of ‘unacceptable media coverage.’ I’m told four issues are fully completed.”

February 23, 2008 – At Wonder Con, Dan DiDio corrects a statement from the previous day. In essence, he mistakenly said “Batwoman” when talking about an upcoming Batgirl mini series. DiDio states there is no Batwoman series coming soon and later adding that Batwoman “will be an integral part of the DC Universe in 2008.”


February 25, 2008 – In response to DiDio’s comments, blogger and former DC staffer Valerie D’Orazio wonders Whither Goest Batwoman? D’Orazio posts a pic of Ellen DeGeneres as an example of how the public can and does support a lesbian in the entertainment industry. Ironically, DeGeneres’ show is produced in associated with and distributed by Warner Bros.


The Bat office was once not so long ago very queer friendly. Bob Schreck was the franchise’s main editor, Devin Grayson wrote Nightwing, and Holly Robinson and her girlfriend were once supporting characters in Catwoman. Schreck’s editorial duties switched along with many others around the time of “One Year Later.” Grayson stopped writing Nightwing in favor of developing Batwoman. Holly temporarily became Catwoman and then the character was moved out so she could join Countdown.


February 28, 2008 – Taking his cue from Dan DiDio, Tom Bondurant, in a Grumpy Old Fan entry for Newsarama, speculates on how Batwoman “will be an integral part of the DC Universe in 2008.” Bondurant nicely points out the dichotomy between Didio’s comment about building a grass roots appeal for the character through exposure in other books and the nearly complete lack of same in the following years. Neither does he forget the scuttled Grayson book or the rumored Rucka/Williams stalled project.


March 15, 2008 – At Wizard World LA, writer James Robinson announces at a panel a new Justice League book that he is writing. Team members include Batwoman and one-time Starman Mikaal Tomas, a bisexual, blue-skinned alien.

Robinson’s Starman is a comic I greatly enjoyed and dearly miss. The prospect of him writing two queer characters intrigues me. However, two and a half years have passed since the first rumors of a Batwoman comic and what I believe to be the project’s inception by Devin Grayson. In those two and a half years we’ve learned the project was unceremoniously killed and a change in attitude from solo series to building grass roots appeal ensued. Well, the latter approach was barely followed through on with a smattering of recurring roles once 52 finished. After a scuttled series what we have now is the prospect of yet another gay character relegated to the role of teammate/ supporting character. This and DiDio’s words that the character will be integral in 2008. The proof behind DiDio’s words remains to be seen.

February 6, 2009 - Newsarama reports that Batwoman will appear in a run in Detective Comics starting with issue #854.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

Well, the second Batwoman issue was as kickass as the first.

I still don't know anything about the character, but it looks like she has a good backstory that will be told at some point. And the cult angle is also pretty interesting.

And that art...just, wow. The panel from inside of Alice's mouth was a riot and I liked the little panels-within-panels to highlight the action, too. I liked Williams' work on The Island of Mister Mayhew Batman arc, but I think this is just on another level.

I'm still not feeling the Question back-up, though, and I don't like hearing that its going to take up more pages of future issues.

 

[K.B.]

Just read the new issue...what a knockout book this is t: