The Official Detective Comics Thread

[The Batman]

I'm quite sad at how much HoH gets ripped because it's a more standard superhero affair and RIP is praised for being a "new change in Batman" when, when it came down to it, RIP really didn't do anything innovative change wise at all, and atleast HoH didn't have Batman as an unbeatable Godbeing. I gotta agree too that his run is fast approaching a definitive aspect of Batman mythos.

I think the part I'm saddest about is that it seems Dini was really going somewhere subtly in his one shots. Despite their nature some small arcs were building up to a no doubt planned climax involving the Riddler possibly rediscovering Batman's identity and his foes which were becoming legit turning back to crime. Now since all Morrison's nonsense (which seems to be controlling DC right now, no doubt they'll let him make Damian be Batman of the future soon) we might not get to see this happen.

Anyways, apart from those two issues is Dini doing anything else? I'll be very saddened if he ends his run here.

I'm quite sad at how all most fanboys can do is praise dini while bashing morrison at the same time...it only highlights the perception that dini's merely writing the secondary book. Never do you see consisitent mentions of dini in the R.I.P threads. And the truth is, dini's run is as overrated by comic fans who need things spelled out for them like a child as morrisons run is by intellectual snobs. They're pretty much on the same level but for different reasons: Decent at best stories that will eventually become footnotes.

 

[Majic Walrus]

I'm quite sad at how all most fanboys can do is praise dini while bashing morrison at the same time...it only highlights the perception that dini's merely writing the secondary book. Never do you see consisitent mentions of dini in the R.I.P threads. And the truth is, dini's run is as overrated by comic fans who need things spelled out for them like a child as morrisons run is by intellectual snobs. They're pretty much on the same level but for different reasons: Decent at best stories that will eventually become footnotes.

Seriously though if you read RIP and Detective in the same day which one do you think is better? Detective by far.

Morrison is good at doing long winded, thick, twisting plots that are actually very good if it weren't for the fact that months and months later you get a weak payoff only to realize that you've got to read more to figure it out.

It's like reading The Bleak House and then finding out that there was a hidden "Part 2" somewhere out there.

Dini on the other hand is good at writing fun stories that tap into the characters more than anything else. They might not tell as intricate a plot because they spend more time looking into the insides of a character and relationships. You read a short story with a medium sized payout and then you're done.

In this day and age I think more people are looking for "Grass roots" stories like Dini's and not looking for complex masterpieces like Morrison's work.

 

[CaptainClown]

I like Dini's run simply because it didn't try to be something its not. The whole time I was reading Morrison's run it felt like Michael Bay trying to make a film out of Transformers. It came off as pretentious. Actually I'll correct that and compare Morrison to M. Night Shamalyan. He had a few good hits but has been going down hill. The whole R.I.P. arc felt like a simple comic book concept that he tried to write off as something deep. Dini's run felt like a comic book concept which he stuck with and thats why I liked it. It wasn't a TDKR or Sandman but it was an enjoyable little read.

 

[The Batman]

Seriously though if you read RIP and Detective in the same day which one do you think is better? Detective by far.

Morrison is good at doing long winded, thick, twisting plots that are actually very good if it weren't for the fact that months and months later you get a weak payoff only to realize that you've got to read more to figure it out.

It's like reading The Bleak House and then finding out that there was a hidden "Part 2" somewhere out there.

Dini on the other hand is good at writing fun stories that tap into the characters more than anything else. They might not tell as intricate a plot because they spend more time looking into the insides of a character and relationships. You read a short story with a medium sized payout and then you're done.

In this day and age I think more people are looking for "Grass roots" stories like Dini's and not looking for complex masterpieces like Morrison's work.

How bout you change the bolded part to "I"? And again, Detective's conservative comics fare may be better for YOU, but dont try to imply that dini's style is better for everyone. Morrisons batman, whether you like it or not, outsells tec and has outsold tec even before R.I.P.

Again, I find it funny that people cant help but tear down morrison in order to build up dini. That says something about simply placing faith in dini's work alone...

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

The "You just have to have it spelled out for you because you don't understand it" is a terrible argument. RIP is a story that would be ripped apart by any writing workshop. Heck, even if I could get past the plotholes and Batgod anticlimax I'd still fint it inferior to Dini not because I find Dini to be the greatest writer ever, cause let's face it, he has had some stinkers, but that unlike Morrison he understands Batman. His Batman fights the darkness while Morrisons admits to like it. Dini's calls in help from allies while Morrison's "relies on his friends to help him" by letting Nightwing get damn near lobotomised. And Dini explores the character and furthers the relationships instead of "First arc: Batman gets a son! Second arc: Ra's comes back (not ihs fault i'll admit though) Third Arc: Cliche supervillain entrance! Fourth Arc: Bring on Dead Batman!"

Okay, so that is heavily overdramatic. But overall as much as people say Morrison is respecting the mythos I only see disregard. He disregards current storytelling and established continuity by making his own, he pulls out random Silver Age stories most of which are the garbage ones (there is a difference between fun Silver Age and utter trash) and then he goes ahead and single handedly plans the demise of the bat so every writer must follow, turns Talia into the dumbest villainess ever, and makes a villain the Devil which seems to be a "deep" move by many.

I'll admit to still enjoying Morrisons run, but overall I see more harm in the characters than good. Dini atleast gave an awesome replacement Ventriloquist, turned Hush into a *shock* good villain, finally delivered a good Mad hatter story, and moved the Bruce/Selina relationship forward. And he did it without having to give the biggest shock in 70 years.

 

[The Batman]

And what you just typed does not disprove my point whatsoever....in fact, it only serves to highlight it...once again, you tear one overrated writer to shreds because of your own biases to praise another (Dini moved the selina/bruce relationship forward?Hahahahhahahahhahah)

I wonder if people can review an issue of tec without complaining about morrison along the way.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

And what you just typed does not disprove my point whatsoever....in fact, it only serves to highlight it...once again, you tear one overrated writer to shreds because of your own biases to praise another (Dini moved the selina/bruce relationship forward?Hahahahhahahahhahah)

I wonder if people can review an issue of tec without complaining about morrison along the way.

Just a shot in the dark here, but maybe these guys just think Dini's stories are better than Morrison's, and don't share your opinion that they are both "equally overrated" or that just because one book sells more that it's automatically better.

 

[The Batman]

1. I mentioned sales only because one person said that more people are looking for dini's run when its not true.

2. Prefer Dini...I'm commenting on the fact that people apparently need Morrison's run to justify Dini's...or have you not been reading my posts? I know the answer to that is "not really". You dont see people bashing Geoff johns' run on Action to justify their liking of James Robinson's Superman, so why is the same thing going on here? It's really irritating to come to this thread and half the posts are merely about bashing morrison rather than actually talking about dini

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

And what you just typed does not disprove my point whatsoever....in fact, it only serves to highlight it...once again, you tear one overrated writer to shreds because of your own biases to praise another (Dini moved the selina/bruce relationship forward?Hahahahhahahahhahah)

I wonder if people can review an issue of tec without complaining about morrison along the way.

Ah, I see your complaint now. You're annoyed about the constant Morrison bickering in this thread. My apologies, I thought you were arguing the writer's dynamics. Anyway, I must take fair blame for complaining about Morrison/RIP/Last Rites, I probably have to work on that. But I will say it is almost impossible not to in some cases, given that the RIP thread follows the events of the main book while this one leaves us having to follow it around in other titles. Given that Morrison's plan seems to be controlling right now it's hard not to complain about how detective is forced to bend to his will.

But yeah, anyway, while I disagree (I still say Dini on Batbooks is not overrated, and that he does move things forward) but I see that a lot of complaining can be aggravating. Just don't expect all of it to go though.

 

[Lord Valumart]

i gotta say that i only really got into batman comics due to the fact that dini was writing detective, cause i loved his work TAS.

heart of hush is probably the best story i've read all year and if i'm completely honest RIP felt like it was trying to slam continuity into a wall while screaming "DO IT!! DO IT NOW!!!". within a few pages of reading RIP i discovered that batman hadben dead for about 6 minutes like 4 issues ago and i was like "...ball to this..." cause i hadn't been reading batman i felt horribly left out and lost.

and now everything is changing due to RIP i feeli have to read it so one day i'll slowly get through the damn thing...

 

[Majic Walrus]

How bout you change the bolded part to "I"? And again, Detective's conservative comics fare may be better for YOU, but dont try to imply that dini's style is better for everyone. Morrisons batman, whether you like it or not, outsells tec and has outsold tec even before R.I.P.

Again, I find it funny that people cant help but tear down morrison in order to build up dini. That says something about simply placing faith in dini's work alone...

I meant people in general, not necessarily you. You as in neither one of us but someone totally different who happens to like Dini's work. We both know who we like.

Also I never sought to "tear down" Morrison in that post. In fact I compared him to Charles Dickens and called his work a "complex masterpiece". I'm just saying that stuff isn't what everyone wants to read.

It doesn't make Dini any better that Morrison writes what he does, it just makes him seem better.

 

[K.B.]

I like both writers but I fee lthat Dini is more successful.

Though they are both different types of storytellers (Morrison more long and twisted with LOTS of details while Dini is short and sweet) I do feel that Dini has the edge here and here is why:

The artwork.

Morrisons writing has so many details put into it that he needs artists of a certain calibre to work with so that his ideas are not lost in translation and Tony Daniel simply is not a good match for Grant at all. The problems with R.I.P. are in the art.

Take a look at the books with Kubert and Williams and there is so much being picked up on between writer and artist and your really getting a sense of where Grant is going and the groundwork he is laying out while when Daniels came on board, we lost out o nso many thigns that its become a confused mess with half the things happening "off page" when they should be happening on page where we can see.

With Dini, he has had solid artists the whole way and they have not had any problems translating scripts to art. Sure there arent as many "background" or "little" details as in Grants work, but still.

 

[BubbaGump]

So what did people think about the Denny O Neil issues? I didn't buy them, and it looks a couple of people were unhappy with it.

 

[Drz]

So what did people think about the Denny O Neil issues? I didn't buy them, and it looks a couple of people were unhappy with it.

Mediocore, i liked the new artist but the story itself wasn't anything spectacular, it was about Nightwing and:

Spoiler

him doing **** ups because of stress due to Bruce's disappearance, theres a guy pretenting to be a Two-face and Nightwing is trying to catch him and so on, its basicly a weak psychological story of Nightwing preparing himself.

EDIT: Is the paul dini detective comics hardcover out yet? the one where the Dustin artist is.

 

[squeekness]

I thought it was kinda meh, like reading a fanfic. Not as good as that last Hush arc by far.

 

[BubbaGump]

Mediocore, i liked the new artist but the story itself wasn't anything spectacular, it was about Nightwing and:

Spoiler

him doing **** ups because of stress due to Bruce's disappearance, theres a guy pretenting to be a Two-face and Nightwing is trying to catch him and so on, its basicly a weak psychological story of Nightwing preparing himself.

EDIT: Is the paul dini detective comics hardcover out yet? the one where the Dustin artist is.

Thanks. It doesn't sound to hot though.

And yeah, the Detective hardcover is out. I saw it at the bookstore and it looks good. Too bad I already have the single issues, since the cover's really nice.

 

[Dark Victory]

EDIT: Is the paul dini detective comics hardcover out yet? the one where the Dustin artist is.

Private Casebook was released a couple weeks ago in hardcover. HoH will probably be released around March.

 

[Drz]

Thank you gentlemen.

 

[margon]

I enjoyed HoH, didn't grab the singles but I'll get the tpb. Some of the actions scenes went on too long and seemed a little boring and/or obligatory, felt like I was 9 watching TAS again. Marvelous work on all the characters, that's obviously his ace in the hand. Also goddamn he tied together Hush well, from the plastic surgery to the zombie helpers and Freeze as a partner, his mother, Peyton, Aristotle, busting a first aid kit and putting bandages on his face in a middle of a fight ha ha. That's very commendable.

I have to say I hope he continues with one shots again, HoH kinda dragged out a little. Also more Harley and Ivy

I hope Morrisons overhaul didn't throw Dini's series plans for a loop too much and he can do something interesting with the new status quo. Actually I really like the fact that Dini will be on board for bringing in the new batman world, he'll be a good guiding hand on his corner of the franchise and we can see his take on all the new changes hopefully.

I have a feeling he's gonna veer more towards the Robins and batfamily in 2009, seems logical while Morrison handles whoever is the new Batman.

I'm quite sad at how all most fanboys can do is praise dini while bashing morrison at the same time...it only highlights the perception that dini's merely writing the secondary book. Never do you see consisitent mentions of dini in the R.I.P threads. And the truth is, dini's run is as overrated by comic fans who need things spelled out for them like a child as morrisons run is by intellectual snobs. They're pretty much on the same level but for different reasons: Decent at best stories that will eventually become footnotes.

what I don't think either run will end up as a footnote, no way. I have to ask you then, if you had to pick three or four outstanding runs from this decade, what would they be? Hush of course will make the list because it was big and silly and Jim Lee and got alot of new readers, whether or not we agree on its status as a great book ( I don't think so) it was definitely a standout from the 00's. Under The Hood was another notable milestone event but again of debatable status in quality. Then what we've got all the War Crimes mess, Face-to Face, Fugitive, bleh bleh bleh.

If Morrison and Dini are footnotes what will be the best from the 00's?

 

[MaskedManJRK]

Seriously though if you read RIP and Detective in the same day which one do you think is better? Detective by far.

...Nah. Actually, I'd say both are tied.

Batman is where I get my crazy, badass superhero stories and Det. is where I get my grounded, noir-ish mystery stories. They're both valid interpetations of the character and I enjoy both equally.

Hell--isn't it the point to have all these multiple titles for one character? To do different stories to get as many readers as possible?

 

[K.B.]

So what did people think about the Denny O Neil issues? I didn't buy them, and it looks a couple of people were unhappy with it.

Everything about these 2 issues was bad. You wouldnt know it was Denny writting and the art was horrible.

Even under stress and that I dont think Dick would make half the mistakes he made in these 2 issues because they were just honestly stupid. Gets his bike stolen? Ummm okay?

 

[The Batman]

...Nah. Actually, I'd say both are tied.

Batman is where I get my crazy, badass superhero stories and Det. is where I get my grounded, noir-ish mystery stories. They're both valid interpetations of the character and I enjoy both equally.

Hell--isn't it the point to have all these multiple titles for one character? To do different stories to get as many readers as possible?

and yet most of this thread is still being used to ***** about morrison instead of actually being on topic ...arent fanboys amazing?

 

[Drz]

Everything about these 2 issues was bad. You wouldnt know it was Denny writting and the art was horrible.

Even under stress and that I dont think Dick would make half the mistakes he made in these 2 issues because they were just honestly stupid. Gets his bike stolen? Ummm okay?

How can you say the art was horrible? >_> And we can't truly know how much under stress Nightwing was, i mean he lost his "mentor" and "father" person, thats deep man. :/

 

[K.B.]

Because there were problems a plenty with the anatomy and persepective. A page or a panel here or there didnt look to terrible but the odd page or panel does not a good artist make.

yes he lost his father figure and I think thati dea has lots of potential for a good story but jeeze was this not it. Gordon and Bullock coming off as if they have never even heard of Nightwing let alone ever saw him was stupid. That HAS to be some sort of continuity glitch. And like I said, the mistakes Dick made were just lame. Your honestly telling me that a man who has trained with Bruce since he was what? 10, and even with losing his father figure, would make half the mistakes he made? I dont buy it. They were just to "amature" if you know what I mean.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Both issues just felt like a pseudo-intellectual rehashing of all the themes under the "Nightwing" title and felt unnecessary. The whole "My father figure is gone!/how do i make it without him?/TWO-FACE!!!!" stuff was explored to great effect already in Nightwing's own title.

Really wasn't worth the money at all. It was disappointing too, because i've enjoyed all the tie-ins to RIP than RIP itself. And this was just boring.