The OFFICIAL FINAL CRISIS THREAD

[Aristotle]

Does this justify Grant's work to my point of view about Batman? Batman's role is to be the "Real Guy" on the Justice League. And in Final Crisis he really let me down.


Hmmmm. It is something to mull over.

Nice! Very cool interpretation. I would guess that it isn't there intentionally, but it's totally valid. Very cool concept. I do think that can justify what you consider to be Batman's failure, if you allow it to.

 

[Manic]

I don't know if it's the fact that I watch Doctor Who* or what, but I really didn't find myself all that disappointed in Batman when he pulled a gun on Darkseid. I get that he hates guns because a gunman killed his parents, but making a spectacle of themselves in a dark alley also got his parents killed, and... well... Batman.



*The Doctor has a strict no-guns policy, but he'll use every other weapon known to man, and has committed genocide several times.

 

[Franklin Richards]

It really effected me. As if this character were someone I'd been following in the Dallas Morning News for years or something. I feel like I know Batman just as well as anyone and seeing that gun in his hand generated genuine emotion in me.


Lots of playwrights have trouble doing that. Some do it to make you pissed. Maybe this was some sort of Brechtian ruse to piss me off. I'm not sure. But you can't help responding to it.


And that can be ok. I'm just not ready to accept Batman using a gun. But maybe that's a personal problem. And maybe that's a good thing.

 

[Aristotle]

You could always just say it's not really a gun, it's a Radion-projectile-emitter, and Batman just called it a firearm as a joke.

 

[Manic]

I'm expecting to see Batman struggle with his decision to use a gun, by the way. Violating one's principles is forgivable if you only do it once and regret it.

 

[Franklin Richards]

You could always just say it's not really a gun, it's a Radion-projectile-emitter, and Batman just called it a firearm as a joke.

Ahhh. But that would interfere with my philosophy on life. It's in my sig and it's not about Annihilus.


I'll keep mulling over the Brechtian Conspiracy for now.


EDIT --- I meant to throw some Artaud in there too.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I thought one of the most interesting things Morrison said was that Batman RIP - and Batman's "death" - was simply book 3 in his 5-book Batman saga, which he expects to resume in the summer. He pretty much says Bruce will be back, but he can't say how. So would it be safe to assume that Bruce Wayne will be Batman again sooner rather than later?

 

[Aristotle]

I thought one of the most interesting things Morrison said was that Batman RIP - and Batman's "death" - was simply book 3 in his 5-book Batman saga, which he expects to resume in the summer. He pretty much says Bruce will be back, but he can't say how. So would it be safe to assume that Bruce Wayne will be Batman again sooner rather than later?

I've been saying that for awhile. It's all but explicitly stated that he's not done with the Bruce Wayne story. Still can't figure how you get Bruce out of the Stone Age in a Batman comic book, though. It's too big for the kind of street-level reinterpretation/rationalization that Morrison has been trying for.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I've been saying that for awhile. It's all but explicitly stated that he's not done with the Bruce Wayne story. Still can't figure how you get Bruce out of the Stone Age in a Batman comic book, though. It's too big for the kind of street-level reinterpretation/rationalization that Morrison has been trying for.

Guess it's time for Bruce to put those mad escape-artist skills to the test.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Wasn't the build-up to RIP basically Batman reacquainting himself with his crazy pre-Crisis exploits? That would seem to indicate that it's okay for Batman to be retrieved from prehistory in his own comics...

 

[CBG]

I thought one of the most interesting things Morrison said was that Batman RIP - and Batman's "death" - was simply book 3 in his 5-book Batman saga, which he expects to resume in the summer. He pretty much says Bruce will be back, but he can't say how. So would it be safe to assume that Bruce Wayne will be Batman again sooner rather than later?

Curious, what would be books 1 and 2?

 

[Franklin Richards]

Guess it's time for Bruce to put those mad escape-artist skills to the test.

Can't the Challengers of the Unknown just go pick him up? Surely Zatanna will get a precog vision or something.

 

[Aristotle]

Wasn't the build-up to RIP basically Batman reacquainting himself with his crazy pre-Crisis exploits? That would seem to indicate that it's okay for Batman to be retrieved from prehistory in his own comics...

But many of them have been rationalized as hallucinations.

Curious, what would be books 1 and 2?

Presumably the Batman stories that came before RIP? Or maybe Arkham Asylum and JLA?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Can't the Challengers of the Unknown just go pick him up? Surely Zatanna will get a precog vision or something.

Wouldn't that be a postcog vision?

 

[WompuM]

Is there a quote somewhere about this 5 part story from Morrison?

 

[Aristotle]

Is there a quote somewhere about this 5 part story from Morrison?

The interview that Keyser linked to.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Curious, what would be books 1 and 2?

I'd imagine Batman and Son and The Black Glove.

 

[Aristotle]

I'd imagine Batman and Son and The Black Glove.

That leaves out a lot of other stories though. I think he sees this whole run as one narrative. In fact, I think he said that in the interview.

 

[WompuM]

In the script of Arkham, he said the experience batman went through there made him confident enough to be the leader he was in JLA. Perhaps those are 1 and 2 respectfully as someone before mentioned.

 

[Aristotle]

In the script of Arkham, he said the experience batman went through there made him confident enough to be the leader he was in JLA. Perhaps those are 1 and 2 respectfully as someone before mentioned.

They very well could be, but I think the more likely answer is that the first two books are collections of his run on Batman.

 

[WompuM]

I'm surprised how little involvment he has with BftC. Makes me seem the status quo changes in it will last all of 4 minutes.

 

[Aristotle]

I'm surprised how little involvment he has with BftC. Makes me seem the status quo changes in it will last all of 4 minutes.

The plan was originally to have him write it, so I suspect he did a basic broad-strokes plot of what has to happen, and will pick up from there.

He shouldn't be that naive. A broad-strokes plot of what had to happen is exactly what I suspect he did with Countdown, and look how the f*** that turned out.

 

[Keyser Soze]

A quote from Grant Morrison, over on Newsarama. Might help shed some light on the "Batman breaking his no-killing rule" controversy:

NRAMA: Superman and Darkseid - for those of us who didn't attend night classes on New Genesis...despite being shot through the heart, Darkseid is still alive, he's taking aim at Orion to basically start the whole story, and the Flashes lead the Black racer to him...and that kills him? I feel a little slow here, but when did he start falling through the multiverses?

GM: Again, I don’t think you need to know anything about New Genesis or any other information apart from what’s in the story. Darkseid wasn’t shot in the heart. We all know Batman doesn’t kill people, hasn’t killed people for 70 years and isn’t about to start here. It’s a big enough deal for Batman to pick up a gun. He winged Turpin knowing that the Radion in the bullet would be enough to poison Darkseid’s divine essence. Radion only kills gods after all. It slays ideas. After that shot, Darkseid is dying, just as someone with radiation poisoning might slowly expire, as Superman explains in #7. The Black Racer drags him struggling away into oblivion over the course of that issue until nothing remains but the fading, ghost-echoes of his malice.

 

[Aristotle]

A quote from Grant Morrison, over on Newsarama. Might help shed some light on the "Batman breaking his no-killing rule" controversy:

NRAMA: Superman and Darkseid - for those of us who didn't attend night classes on New Genesis...despite being shot through the heart, Darkseid is still alive, he's taking aim at Orion to basically start the whole story, and the Flashes lead the Black racer to him...and that kills him? I feel a little slow here, but when did he start falling through the multiverses?

GM: Again, I don’t think you need to know anything about New Genesis or any other information apart from what’s in the story. Darkseid wasn’t shot in the heart. We all know Batman doesn’t kill people, hasn’t killed people for 70 years and isn’t about to start here. It’s a big enough deal for Batman to pick up a gun. He winged Turpin knowing that the Radion in the bullet would be enough to poison Darkseid’s divine essence. Radion only kills gods after all. It slays ideas. After that shot, Darkseid is dying, just as someone with radiation poisoning might slowly expire, as Superman explains in #7. The Black Racer drags him struggling away into oblivion over the course of that issue until nothing remains but the fading, ghost-echoes of his malice.

OK Frank, I'd say he pretty much did it to **** with you.

 

[Franklin Richards]