The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - - Part 11

[Doctor Octopus]

Agreed. It feel a lot like Ditko era for me.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I just rewatched Spider-Man 1 the other day, and holy hell. Turns out it's been like over 2 years since the last time I watched it. And it was VERY different than I remembered it to be, can't believe I forgot so much about it. In fact, it was worse than I remembered. It wasn't bad, but it really wasn't as good as Spider-Man 2 (my favorite superhero movie of all time...)

It's gotten better for me over time. It has some problems (no Gwen, the pro wrestling scene), but it still kept pretty close to Spidey's origin. Plus, seeing Spider-man finally go toe-to-toe with his arch-nemesis on film was something for which I'd been yearning since I was a kid in the '70s. Goblin's costume wasn't perfect, but the glider, Dafoe's mannerisms/voice, the pumpkin bombs, and his attack on Peter's loved ones were just perfect. I really go back and forth on whether SM2 is better than SM1 because the difference is a hair's breadth.

 

[Nardz937]

It's gotten better for me over time. It has some problems (no Gwen, the pro wrestling scene), but it still kept pretty close to Spidey's origin. Plus, seeing Spider-man finally go toe-to-toe with his arch-nemesis on film was something for which I'd been yearning since I was a kid in the '70s. Goblin's costume wasn't perfect, but the glider, Dafoe's mannerisms/voice, the pumpkin bombs, and his attack on Peter's loved ones were just perfect. I really go back and forth on whether SM2 is better than SM1 because the difference is a hair's breadth.

What didn't you like about the pro wrestling scene?

 

[Lantern Venom]

What didn't you like about the pro wrestling scene?

It was terribly dated and silly. Both sports like UFC and dangerous performances like pro wrestling are tightly regulated by law. Even in 2002, there is simply no way that a big venue in NYC would witness untrained guys getting debilitated and attacked with chairs without getting shut down by the police.

What we saw in that scene might well have happened in some run-down bar in the 1960s. However, there were several better options that could have been used when that scene was being written into a modern story.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Kirsten Dunst is looking good these days...

[YT]sbG7P7SvIY8[/YT]

It's nice to see her in a better place and she's also picking some very interesting roles/projects. I always had a soft spot for her in this trilogy, despite the hate she gets.

 

[Eggyman]

Kirsten Dunst is looking good these days...

[YT]sbG7P7SvIY8[/YT]

It's nice to see her in a better place and she's also picking some very interesting roles/projects. I always had a soft spot for her in this trilogy, despite the hate she gets.

Copy that. I have no problem with her performance, but the character over the trilogy grew into something I didn't like. The MJ I knew from the comics was strong, cool, confident, and a rock for Peter.

Dunst did great with what she was given, which was the story of a girl with daddy issues, hopping from bloke to bloke, and generally being a pain in the arse.

Still love her in the first one, even if she did go from Flash to Harry to Spidey to Peter. Little loose ha.

 

[Nardz937]

It was terribly dated and silly. Both sports like UFC and dangerous performances like pro wrestling are tightly regulated by law. Even in 2002, there is simply no way that a big venue in NYC would witness untrained guys getting debilitated and attacked with chairs without getting shut down by the police.

What we saw in that scene might well have happened in some run-down bar in the 1960s. However, there were several better options that could have been used when that scene was being written into a modern story.

Meh. Understandable. You certainly have a realistic point.

But for me, in a movie about a guy who obtains the abilities of a spider and a man who puts on a Goblin mask and flies on a glider, that can be forgiven.

I thought it was great and really well done. Treating pro wrestling as if it's non-scripted, Macho Man as Bonesaw and Peter finally beginning to get used to his powers. It was a great scene IMO.

 

[Nardz937]

Kirsten Dunst is looking good these days...

[YT]sbG7P7SvIY8[/YT]

It's nice to see her in a better place and she's also picking some very interesting roles/projects. I always had a soft spot for her in this trilogy, despite the hate she gets.

Yep. She quit smoking recently too. I thought she was good as MJ, her character in 3 was written terribly though.

 

[Batsfan1]

Yep. She quit smoking recently too. I thought she was good as MJ, her character in 3 was written terribly though.

I don't know how she was terribly written. The film was certainly a little messy for the characters, but her character, like the others, were written fine.

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life! God bless everyone!

 

[Batsfan1]

Copy that. I have no problem with her performance, but the character over the trilogy grew into something I didn't like. The MJ I knew from the comics was strong, cool, confident, and a rock for Peter.

Dunst did great with what she was given, which was the story of a girl with daddy issues, hopping from bloke to bloke, and generally being a pain in the arse.

Still love her in the first one, even if she did go from Flash to Harry to Spidey to Peter. Little loose ha.

Being cool isn't a trait I'd find to be an issue, but that's a subjective thing, no one is always confident, in the movies she had her moments, but the reality of her character background had to be dealt with and that would make someone have self-esteem issues at times, and being a rock for Peter isn't what defines her as a character. She dated four guys in a span of 3 movies, which is about 3 years. That's not unreasonable. The comic version had father issues as well, if I remember correctly. She was no more a pain than anyone else in the films.

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!

 

[Elevator Man]

Kirsten Dunst is looking good these days...

[YT]sbG7P7SvIY8[/YT]

Not as good as the two women she's sitting between in that reunion video. Not that I'm saying she looks bad or unhealthy or anything.

 

[Godzillasaurus]

Ok, I am probably the only one to say this, but I actually don't see the huge appeal for Spiderman 2, and I never have. IMO, the romantic subplot was done to unnecessary extremities, Doc Ock was "meh", and the "Spiderman no more" subplot was forgettable.

Seriously, WHERE DID ALL THIS APPEAL ORIGINATE!?!? What do you guys love so dearly about it that I am missing!? The first Spiderman, on the other hand, is solid gold in my eyes. Hate me? Good! ;D

[YT]_Avn2nT16FA[/YT]

 

[The Joker]

Ok, I am probably the only one to say this, but I actually don't see the huge appeal for Spiderman 2, and I never have. IMO, the romantic subplot was done to unnecessary extremities, Doc Ock was "meh", and the "Spiderman no more" subplot was forgettable.

Seriously, WHERE DID ALL THIS APPEAL ORIGINATE!?!? What do you guys love so dearly about it that I am missing!?

You're missing loads. For a start you're missing the strong emotional core to it that makes it such an appealing tale. Spider-Man 2 is a story of a hero's growth, and the burden of being that hero. After 2 years of being Spider-Man it's taken this negative toll on Peter's life in just about every area. He's got a strained friendship with Harry, he keeps missing MJ's plays and thus is isolating himself from her life, he can't hold down a job, he is failing college, and he can't help Aunt May with her financial troubles.

Finally Peter reaches a breaking point where it's affecting him so badly it's making his powers fail. Like when someone is so psychologically stressed it makes them ill. He can take it no more, and after a powerful confrontation with Uncle Ben in his mind, he throws in the towel. It's the very essence of the conflicted character that is Peter Parker and his emotional turmoil with dealing with his superhero life;

Tobey Maguire was a power house in this one. Able to depict all the conflict, drama, and emotional turmoil that makes Spider-Man such a compelling character. There's so many great scenes he got to sink his teeth into. From confessing to Aunt May about his part in Uncle Ben's death, to re-enacting the famous Spider-Man no more scene. All the great character scenes he got to do. From the big ones like confronting Harry after being unmasked by him, to the more somber ones like his "web chat" with MJ after he's saved her from Ock's sinking lair.

Then we have the villain, Doc Ock, superbly played by Alfred Molina. Apart from being a visually magnificent villain, menacing, and ruthlessly brilliant, he also presents a brilliant parallel with Peter and his conflict in the movie. Peter is being irresponsible by giving up being Spider-Man so he can lead his dream of a normal life. Ock is being irresponsible by doing evil things to make his fusion dream succeed. By the end they both come full circle and accept responsibility. There's great chemistry between Maguire and Molina as two sides of the same coin being mirror images of each other.
Molina brings all the menace and nuance to the character. In one scene he's bonding with Peter over the mechanics of Fusion, and then in another he's threatening to peel the flesh off MJ's bones. He gets all the little Doc Ock-isms down to a tee. From lighting cigars with his tentacles, to flashing menacing little smiles when he's about to do something wicked like abduct MJ or smash a bunch of do-gooding citizens out of his way, to the dry villainous humor ("Butterfingers"). By far the best villain of the Spider-Man movies.

The supporting cast is top notch, and all serve as vital cogs in Peter's journey.

Aunt May is at her best in this one. The scene where she gives Peter the $20 on his birthday and then breaks down crying about how much she misses Ben is so powerful. Gives me goosebumps every time. She's not shown as helpless old lady. In spite of her being taken hostage by Doc Ock, she ends up helping saving Spidey's life when she smacks Ock in the face with her umbrella just when he's about to stab Spider-Man with his tentacle blade.
She's shown as an emotionally strong and capable woman. She doesn't fold up like a lawn chair when she loses her home. She has arranged an apartment for herself, and has her house all packed up and ready to move. Of course we have the big one, where Peter tells her the terrible secret he's been holding on his conscience for 2 years; his part in Uncle Ben's death. But May still forgives him, commends him for his honesty, and tells him how much she loves him. This is the perfect depiction of the Peter/Aunt May relationship.

Franco is on fire as Harry in this. From the get-go you can see him trying to live up to his father's legacy, still trying to impress him even in death. "Octavius is going to put Oscorp on the map like my father never dreamed". Harry's downward spiral in the movie is exceptionally well handled. Watching him go from cocky businessman with delusions of grandeur, to broken drunken failure, to angry bitter friend who publicly slaps and verbally humiliates Peter in public, to making a dangerous deal with Doc Ock to get Spider-Man, to finally losing his last grip on sanity and hallucinating his father telling him to kill Peter and then finding the Goblin lair. It was the perfect handling of Harry's journey into becoming the Goblin.

Mary Jane is shown to have grown a lot since Spider-Man 1. She's reached her dream of being a successful actress on Broadway. She's independent. She's a star. But she has not forgotten her friends and family. Where she came from. The rift between her and Peter is well done, as she clearly yearns for him to be there for her, see her Broadway play she worked so hard to get to. Like Aunt May, MJ has a bit of spunk and toughness to her, and doesn't just come across as the helpless damsel. She gives Ock verbal guff, and even tries to smack him with a plank of wood when he's got Spidey captured. The only flaw to her character was her seeing John and trying to get with Peter at the same time. If John was not the one she really wanted then she should have ended it sooner. I understand the point of it was MJ was settling for the safe choice, rather than the one she really wanted. But it's not fair on John to be used like that. But in spite of that, when she finally chose the right guy, I think we all still cheered at the end when we got "Go get 'em tiger".

Jonah Jameson....what can be said about him that has not been said before. J.K. Simmons is PERFECT in the role. And he has his biggest role yet in this one. He's a side splitting scene stealer, and even gets to venture out of the Bugle offices a couple of times during the course of the movie. Watching the TASM movies, seeing Jameson's absence in them, it makes you realize just how much life the character of Jonah brings to a Spidey story.

I mean I think if you've seen the movie then it's kind of self explanatory why Spider-Man 2 is so great, because I really believe the movie's brilliance speaks for itself. And I haven't even mentioned the mind blowing action scenes that look like a comic book come to life. In fact I'd say still the best action scenes of any CBM. No wonder Spider-Man 2 won an Oscar for the special fx.

So I hope that gives you some idea of why people see it as the best.

Hate me? Good! ;D

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Avn2nT16FA[/YT]

No, just pity you because your video doesn't work

 

[Batsfan1]

Mary Jane is shown to have grown a lot since Spider-Man 1. She's reached her dream of being a successful actress on Broadway. She's independent. She's a star. But she has not forgotten her friends and family. Where she came from. The rift between her and Peter is well done, as she clearly yearns for him to be there for her, see her Broadway play she worked so hard to get to. Like Aunt May, MJ has a bit of spunk and toughness to her, and doesn't just come across as the helpless damsel. She gives Ock verbal guff, and even tries to smack him with a plank of wood when he's got Spidey captured. The only flaw to her character was her seeing John and trying to get with Peter at the same time. If John was not the one she really wanted then she should have ended it sooner. I understand the point of it was MJ was settling for the safe choice, rather than the one she really wanted. But it's not fair on John to be used like that. But in spite of that, when she finally chose the right guy, I think we all still cheered at the end when we got "Go get 'em tiger".

I wanna say that Peter isn't innocent in this issue either. He spends the entire movie trying to get with an engaged woman. And in the previous movie he'd made out with his best friend's girlfriend. I'm not gonna get to other stuff because that's not relevant to the first two movies.

God bless you both! God bless everyone in your lives!

 

[The Joker]

I wanna say that Peter isn't innocent in this issue either. He spends the entire movie trying to get with an engaged woman.

Not really. He tries to reconnect with her once after she gets engaged, and that's when he's given up being Spider-Man. And he just asks her to think about giving them another chance. If she decided yes then the onus would be on her to end her relationship with John before she starts up with Peter.

And in the previous movie he'd made out with his best friend's girlfriend.

Mmmm yeah can't really excuse that one. But that's SM-1 not 2, which was the movie I was talking about.

God bless you both! God bless everyone in your lives!

Thanks....

 

[Nardz937]

The Joker says everything I was too lazy to write.

Thank you, good sir.

 

[Batsfan1]

Not really. He tries to reconnect with her once after she gets engaged, and that's when he's given up being Spider-Man. And he just asks her to think about giving them another chance. If she decided yes then the onus would be on her to end her relationship with John before she starts up with Peter.

Peter actually straight asks her out. He doesn't ask her to give them another chance until after she shoots him down.

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!

 

[The Joker]

The Joker says everything I was too lazy to write.

Thank you, good sir.

My pleasure

Peter actually straight asks her out. He doesn't ask her to give them another chance until after she shoots him down.

No he doesn't. He asks her does she want to go get something to eat. That's when MJ is like "I'm getting married, Peter. You're too late" as if going to get some chow mein means they're dating.

 

[The Shape]

Ok, I am probably the only one to say this, but I actually don't see the huge appeal for Spiderman 2, and I never have. IMO, the romantic subplot was done to unnecessary extremities, Doc Ock was "meh", and the "Spiderman no more" subplot was forgettable.

Seriously, WHERE DID ALL THIS APPEAL ORIGINATE!?!? What do you guys love so dearly about it that I am missing!? The first Spiderman, on the other hand, is solid gold in my eyes. Hate me? Good! ;D

 

[The Shape]

Spider-man 2 is one of the greatest superhero films ever made, plain and simple. It always will be.

 

[Godzillasaurus]

The Joker, I agree that the performances were arguably the greatest in this one overall among the characters found in the whole trilogy in general. Especially Harry. However, there is nothing else that seems particularly special in my eyes about this one.

The train fight sequence? Yea, that's pretty cool, but how come there is no love for the final fight of the first film? Just a classic, brutal punch-out with a solid emotional core to it.

Then again I also deeply enjoy Spiderman 3, prefer Age of Ultron over the first Avengers, and do not despise Godzilla 98, so who the hell am I to say anything?

 

[Godzillasaurus]

IMO, Spiderman > Spiderman 3 > Spiderman 2

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuppppp I went there

 

[The Shape]

The train fight sequence? Yea, that's pretty cool, but how come there is no love for the final fight of the first film? Just a classic, brutal punch-out with a solid emotional core to it.

There is definitely love for the final fight of the first film. It's awesome on somany levels, but the fact that the first film has a great fight sequence doesn't de-value the epic fight at the end of SM2.

Then again I also deeply enjoy Spiderman 3, prefer Age of Ultron over the first Avengers, and do not despise Godzilla 98, so who the hell am I to say anything?

Thanks. This does explain a lot.

 

[Godzillasaurus]

Well, more like "epic penultimate fight near the end of SM2"

The FINAL battle was only a hair more dynamic than the Goblin fight in ASM2

 

[The Joker]

The Joker, I agree that the performances were arguably the greatest in this one overall among the characters found in the whole trilogy in general. Especially Harry. However, there is nothing else that seems particularly special in my eyes about this one.

Fair enough. Not much else I can say to you. I mean not everyone can appreciate the greatness of something. At least you found some things to enjoy about it.

The train fight sequence? Yea, that's pretty cool, but how come there is no love for the final fight of the first film? Just a classic, brutal punch-out with a solid emotional core to it.

There's lots of love for it. Just because the train fight is the fan favorite doesn't mean that fight, or other fight scenes in the trilogy are not loved, too.

If there's one thing most people agree Raimi did well it's the action scenes.

Then again I also deeply enjoy Spiderman 3, prefer Age of Ultron over the first Avengers, and do not despise Godzilla 98, so who the hell am I to say anything?

Well I won't lie, that unique taste does explain it. Not saying you're wrong to like or prefer what you do. But yeah your tastes there does explain your opinions here.