The Official Lex Luthor Casting Thread - Part 8

[golfguy22]

Again, I think the people understand why there needs to be a resemblance, but sometimes casting just for looks is a death wish. We are not necessarily asking for a black luthor, we are just open to the idea of it. If a black actor tests bests, why not pick him. If he has a strong build and looks decent, I do not see how that hurts the film.

 

[Kevin Smith]

you seem to continue to be unable to process that the movies are NOT the comics, and, despite the continued bringing up of the racial ambiguity of TAS Lex (which is more than iconic enough to have an impact on such a thing),

He was white and based off of Telly Savalas with more pronounced lips. Gimme a break. There's no "racial amiguity" there. The only "racial ambiguity" is in you heads.

you seem to think his skin color is important. the ONLY truly iconic thing about his appearance is that he's bald.

It is important because he is white. And the "white" part that up until, hell, today, is something that's always went without saying. Luthor is bald and he is white. And he is also tall.

and again, when it involves which PERSON you cast, it stops being change for the sake of change,

Characters don't change for the actors, the actors change for the characters, and you find people who can best fit those characters.

because it starts impacting the actual portrayal, which is the entire thing that sells the character.

So you're saying that the color of his skin does impact the portrayal.

Lex isn't black.

Spacey and hackman, while both could easily have owned the role with decent material, were instead given pure garbage to work with, and despite fitting the profile, both failed to capture the character.

In Hackman's defense all that was in the comics at the time was the mad scientist in a purple and green jumpsuit Lex, so considering with what they had to work with, while the end result is somewhat disappointing, I can kind of forgive it because of that, and Spacey was building off Hackman's portrayal (sadly).

I don't give a damn if the comics haven't done it because I don't know how many freakin times people have to say this to you, but, the movies are NOT the comics.

Again....the only time they should change things from the comics in these films is when it's going to be an IMPROVEMENT. Storywise, character-wise, etc. Anything else is for the sake of change and should be left alone.

Black Lex is in that category. 20 ft Hulk is in that category. Bane who can't take a mask off or else he is in intense pain and collapses is in that category (how does he eat and drink? ...silly Nolan... ). When it diminishes the character instead of enhancing or improving the character (and I know Bane will be a hot topic for some of you guys, but black Luthor isn't even in this category to me, it's worse) it is stupid and unnecessary and should not be done.

 

[golfguy22]

Kevin, maybe you need to ask yourself why you are the only person who feels without a doubt that Lex in the cartoon was white instead of questioning why we don't feel the same as you. If we disagree than there has to be a reason for it. I am sure that none of us have come up with the idea of him being non-white just recently.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Again, I think the people understand why there needs to be a resemblance, but sometimes casting just for looks is a death wish.

It's not one extreme or the other extreme, I'm not saying to cast mannequins, I'm saying get someone who looks like the character and can act.

It's not hard, and the stuios have much more resources than we who are on the message boards do.

We are not necessarily asking for a black luthor, we are just open to the idea of it. If a black actor tests bests, why not pick him. If he has a strong build and looks decent, I do not see how that hurts the film.

Pick whoever you think fits the part, but make him the character. That includes looks, and yeah, if there's a black or asian guy who has the acting chops, cast him, but Tropic Thunder him so he looks like Lex. That's the only way I'm okay with it. Get the best of both worlds, guy who acts like Lex and looks like him.

 

[golfguy22]

I see your point but if they were paint and makeup an actor white 1. it would look strange and 2. there would be uproar from civil rights groups (just like with "black face". The civil rights thing could kill the studio in the PR department.

 

[Kevin Smith]

there are more ways of becoming the character than just painting your face white.

Agreed, but looking like the character is part of it. Having a bald head would also help.

also, I wouldn't mind the change either, as long as it's not change for change's sake and the actor delivers a great performance, then I'm fine, DC needs some more diversity anyways, and you are one of the few that thinks Lex would be a dramatic change.

But it is for change's sake. Black actor cast as a white character, make him look white then. Most Superman fans would hate this change. I'm probably in the "minority" here because of how I'm expressing myself on the board. Some people get turned off to something due to tone or how they interpret someone's tone.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

So you're saying that the color of his skin does impact the portrayal.

Lex isn't black.

no, i'm not, seriously, reading comprehension, learn it. I'm saying that the actor impacts the performance, and not looking at an actor just because they're black or asian could cause them to miss out (and just in case you failed to comprehend yet again, that does not equate to me saying that race matters). yes, Lex's appearance is important. But it's more about the presence his appearance gives off. Lex's appearance is supposed to be able to give off the impression of power, he's supposed to come off as intimidating, suave, determined, brilliant, or insane, depending on the scene, and being white isn't necessarily a part of that presence he's supposed to give off. as long as the combination of the actors appearance and their performance leaves no doubt that it's Lex, then I have no problem with it. I don't care if a film makes the change or the comic makes the change, it doesn't friggin matter, ultimate marvel made nick fury black, I don't hear people complaining that the change made him not Fury.

And you mentioned Bane in TDKR, yes, a lot of the character was changed, but the presence he gave off made me still feel the essence of the character, he still broke Batman's back, he still practically took over the city, and he still had a weak spot that batman had to attack in order to make it possible to bring him down. everything that it was important for him to do he did, lets face it, BTAS Bane didn't take control of the city, and he didn't break Batman, it was kinda dissapointing, TDKR Bane did those things, and those are what he's iconic for.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I think the fact that we are even arguing the race for the animated lex makes it clear that he is racially vague, Kevin.

But he's clearly not one extreme or the other. For some reason people seem to think that "if he's not white, then he definitely must be black!" but that is not the case here at all.

With that in mind, it shows how a change in race wouldn't really be that dramatic.

But the "change" to Lex in TAS ISN'T dramatic; instead of making him pink they make him tan...ish. Dramatic would be making him black.

 

[golfguy22]

When they draft the script and have a casting call in place, they will screen only white actors IF that is who they want there character to be. If they want it to appeal to a broader audience than just comic junkies and not limit themselves in turn of acting ability (which they obviously do) than they will keep there options open and screen both white and black and latino etc. actors and will pick who they see as the best pick. This is obviously not "change for change's sake" and any choice they make in regards to casting reflects their belief that their choice was the best for the MATERIAL and not necessarily comic nerds such as ourselves.

 

[regwec]

I'm finding the narrow mindedness a bit depressing. Let me end on a couple of reflections.

Firstly, the cries for actors to look like their characters only works so far, and can lead to logical absurdity. We have been told that the wrong coloured hair is a big problem and the wrong coloured skin is a disaster. So, why draw the line there? The actor who next plays The Joker must be 6'4" and as thin as a rake. Bruce Wayne must have a lantern jaw. Wonder Woman must have the figure of Maria Sharapova, and the features of a young Monica Bellucci. Poison Ivy must be an F-cup. I don't think those traits are any more or less "iconic" than the shade of Lex's skin. But, will we necessarily be selecting from an optimum pool of talent?

Secondly, the idea that skin colour is a greater signifier of identity than all other traits together is a view that stopped being acceptable in about 1890. The only 'argument' we've heard for this racial purism is that it just shows the characters how they are. Well, it doesn't. It just resembles the way they are usually inked.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I see your point but if they were paint and makeup an actor white 1. it would look strange and 2. there would be uproar from civil rights groups (just like with "black face". The civil rights thing could kill the studio in the PR department.

I think it's a completely outlandish and silly thing to do. I point to Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder. I'm sure people would be pissed. Which is why it's absurd to make an established and "iconic" character a different race in the first place.

You should be disqualified from casting if you do not meet the character's description for the most part. How he looks is one of the first and most obvious things, so obvious most people don't even feel the need to draw attention to the fact that Lex is a "white" guy and the only description he usually gets is "bald". It's implicit.

If it's not broken don't fix it. That about sums this whole thing up for me.

 

[bluearth]

Kevin Smith, Dwayne Johnson looks like Lex Luthor so are you OK with him being chosen?

 

[golfguy22]

LOL black people can be tan. And once again, I never said that he had to either black or white, I was just going with the flow of the argument. And not every black guy they screen has to don cheadle dark lol. So the change, like in TAS, will not be as "dramatic"

 

[MrMaooz]

Honestly, I always assumed TAS Lex was black.

 

[shauner111]

Ugh. Goddammit. Why is it so hard for people to see they should just look how they are supposed to look? Like their comics counterparts. That's what they are! Keep the mainstays of them. Chris Reeve dyed his hair when he played Superman. Chris Evans bulked up. Routh even wore blue contacts. It's all about BECOMING that CHARACTER. So if whoever they cast cannot LOOK like that character, through one way or another, then they have no business being in that role. Period. I don't care if it's Johnny Depp.

But it's all about the character not the skin tone. His facial features have always lent itself to various mixes. The lips, cheekbones. All that counts is he's bald, and then you move on to the "character" based elements which never has anything to do with their physical form. Lex resembled a non-white in TAS, but even if he didn't it doesn't matter.

Javier Bardem could be the Joker. Idris Elba could be James Bond. Tom Hardy was Bane. Michael B Jordan could be Johnny Storm. Jamie Foxx could be Max Dillon/Electro. The latter choices aren't as iconic but the others are.

If the guy is built, looks like a billionaire, acts like it, has all of Lex's attributes, is bald, good actor....I don't see the complaints after we're given something like that. It would be nitpicking that holds no relevance because all of the character expectations are met. The only argument would be "All of that is great, but I don't accept it because the color of his skin is NOT the color his skin is in the comics". It just feels like a weird argument if the actor nails the CHARACTER.

That's all im sayin Kev! That's how I see it and I just find it doesn't hold any water to say he can't be Lex because he's supposed to be white.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Kevin, maybe you need to ask yourself why you are the only person who feels without a doubt that Lex in the cartoon was white instead of questioning why we don't feel the same as you. If we disagree than there has to be a reason for it. I am sure that none of us have come up with the idea of him being non-white just recently.

He looks like Telly Savalas. The creators grew up in the 60s, and 70s, Telly Savalas was a big star back then, it makes sense he'd be their callback for Lex Luthor. He or Yul Brynner, but Telly Savalas specifically makes more sense because he's bigger and "badder" looking and looks more like Byrne's Lex from the comics in some pics, he's not as heroic looking as Brynner. He's greek but he's still "white", and he still looks like Lex Luthor.

 

[golfguy22]

But Lex's iconic look is not because he is clearly of white (possibly of English descent) as evident in TAS. He is bald, cold, and hardened. That's what I see in any of his incarnations. His background has always been mysterious and for this reason his race can be as well; it doesn't have to be predetermined based on a couple of old comic volumes.

 

[Lencho01]

I always assumed Lex was White in STAS since that's how he was in the comics, past cartoons, and past live-action versions. He just happened to be more tanned than other characters. Black people tend to be shown with darker skin in the DCAU.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Kevin Smith, Dwayne Johnson looks like Lex Luthor so are you OK with him being chosen?

Nope, because he looks nothing like Lex.

Lex looks like Telly Savalas in TAS. I don't see The Rock at all. Lol

 

[golfguy22]

There's is still a big difference from being of Greek descent than of English or Scottish descent. The difference in skin tones can be EXTREMELY dramatic.

 

[regwec]

Nope, because he looks nothing like Lex.

Lex looks like Telly Savalas in TAS. I don't see The Rock at all. Lol

In which case, apparently nobody can play Lex because nobody looks like him.

 

[Sawyer]

Bald Tom Hardy with a good tan could pass for STAS Lex.

But, personally, I'm pulling for someone older. You don't want some young hotshot. You want someone who has earned the respect of Metropolis.

 

[Lencho01]

Or not have him tan to look like the JL/JLU version.

 

[golfguy22]

Gotta go guys. Its been a great discussion. And Kevin I hope none of us have been too rude. Your the man and you always have great things to say (even though happen to disagree with you this time around). Let none of us affect your decision to speak openly, you always keep the hype forums on its toes!

 

[Kevin Smith]

But Lex's iconic look is not because he is clearly of white (possibly of English descent) as evident in TAS. He is bald, cold, and hardened. That's what I see in any of his incarnations. His background has always been mysterious and for this reason his race can be as well; it doesn't have to be predetermined based on a couple of old comic volumes.

No, dude...he's white. He's always been white. I don't know where you're getting this from because this isn't in any of the Superman...anything.

LOL black people can be tan. And once again, I never said that he had to either black or white, I was just going with the flow of the argument. And not every black guy they screen has to don cheadle dark lol. So the change, like in TAS, will not be as "dramatic"

Of course they can and a lot of time it depends on the lighting and how they're dressed (re: Halle Berry), but the black guy in question some folks were throwing around happens to be Mr Denzel Washington, and he isn't "tan". He's pretty black, there's not much ambiguous about him.

I always assumed Lex was White in STAS since that's how he was in the comics, past cartoons, and past live-action versions. He just happened to be more tanned than other characters. Black people tend to be shown with darker skin in the DCAU.

Finally someone gets it.

And Lex would have a nice tan. He's a bajillionaire, he's got time and resources for that. (plus it was the 90s, everyone was "tan" )

But it's all about the character not the skin tone. His facial features have always lent itself to various mixes. The lips, cheekbones. All that counts is he's bald, and then you move on to the "character" based elements which never has anything to do with their physical form. Lex resembled a non-white in TAS, but even if he didn't it doesn't matter.

I always thought he was white enough in TAS, but the skin color or tone is all part of the equation along with height and build, etc. Why even have them work out of their physical appearance is so unimportant? It's all part of the equation to me, one is just as important as the others when casting these guys, you combine it all together and you get the character.

Javier Bardem could be the Joker.

The Joker wears paint/makeup.

Idris Elba could be James Bond.

Maybe.

Tom Hardy was Bane.

They hold the camera at his knee level and point it up and he looks "big". The point is they gave the illusion he was a BIG dude and not his actual height in real life. I know he is short, but it is hard to tell in the film and when you believe he is "big".

Michael B Jordan could be Johnny Storm.

Only if Sue is black.

Jamie Foxx could be Max Dillon/Electro. The latter choices aren't as iconic but the others are.

I thought Ultimate Electro was black, and either way, his skin is blue! So what's this matter?

Same for Thanos. Who cares if he is black or white. He isn't either.

If the guy is built,

How is physical stature any more important than skin color?

looks like a billionaire, acts like it, has all of Lex's attributes, is bald, good actor....I don't see the complaints after we're given something like that.

If he doesn't look like him then he doesn't have all his attributes, man! C'mon, Shaun...

It would be nitpicking that holds no relevance because all of the character expectations are met. The only argument would be "All of that is great, but I don't accept it because the color of his skin is NOT the color his skin is in the comics". It just feels like a weird argument if the actor nails the CHARACTER.

None of that stuff even counts to me if he doesn't look like the character. Because the whole time I'm thinking "why is Lex black? he isn't black...". It'd be like if Peter Dinklage played him, I'd be like "well cool....but Lex isn't a midget".

That's all im sayin Kev! That's how I see it and I just find it doesn't hold any water to say he can't be Lex because he's supposed to be white.

We'll just have to agree to disagree there, friend. I don't think it's a hard thing to get right. If the other things (height, build, hair, personality, etc) matter, then surely the skin color of the character matters then too. It feels funny saying those specific words, but I'm not saying that in a way people can have connotations drawn to it, that should go without saying.

It's all part of the equation to me.