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The Official Metal Gear Thread - Part 1

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Kind of random but was anyone else kind of pissed that fine ass Meryl decided to stay with diarrhea boy Johnny? That just felt really stupid for me.

The entire aging thing the more I think about it now was such a huge bummer for Solid Snake. I mean I feel the guy deserved so much more. Oh well. :(
I remember when MGS4 was being made, I hoped that Kojima would throw a curve ball and bring back Holly. God that would've been great.
 
Who was Holly again? I must say, I thought it was cute how Meryl ended up with Johnny. It was also great to see that he's actually a capable soldier, when he gets his act together.
 
As for the Meryl/Johnny relationship, I hated it. The whole thing felt forced, unnatural, and hamfisted.

Johnny is the punching bag of the series. He's a train-wreck of a soldier. Then suddenly, literally out of nowhere, he's the ultimate badass - wielding a sniper rifle like it's a frickin' handgun and picking enemies off with ease. What exactly am I missing here? I'm sorry, but I can't suddenly take a character seriously after laughing at him for three games.

Then you have Meryl, a character who had a chip on her shoulder. She wanted to prove that she was a strong and independent woman by moving on from the man who hurt her and making her own way in the world. This joke character, who she berated and ridiculed throughout the entire game, awkwardly pronounces his ten-year crush on her, and... She falls for him? Just like that? And literally minutes after Johnny admits his love to her, they're engaged? Really?

It made Meryl look weak - like she was settling for the next best thing. The fact that she fell for Johnny so quickly really negated the strides she made as a character.

It would have been one thing if this relationship was developed throughout the game, but it wasn't. They crammed into five minutes at break-neck speed. When Johnny was portrayed as a bumbling, ****ting goof throughout the majority of the game, and Meryl as a strong and independent woman, I didn't believe in this relationship. I wasn't given the time or appropriate character development to be invested in it.

That whole scene is one giant face-palm.
 
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As for the Meryl/Johnny relationship, I hated it. The whole thing felt forced, unnatural, and hamfisted.

Totally agree. And I even care about Meryl and Snake getting together either. I honestly never really placed much importance on her. I kind of assumed she was dead since she was totally absent from MGS2.
 
If Kojima really wanted to take Snake through the ringer, He should have had Meryl sacrifice herself for him.

Or have Johnny sacrifice himself for Meryl - and give the two a tender moment before he dies. He admits his love to her, and she is overcome by guilt and newfound respect for him. She apologizes, he accepts, he dies, and Meryl walks away an even stronger character.
 
As for the Meryl/Johnny relationship, I hated it. The whole thing felt forced, unnatural, and hamfisted.

Johnny is the punching bag of the series. He's a train-wreck of a soldier. Then suddenly, literally out of nowhere, he's the ultimate badass - wielding a sniper rifle like it's a frickin' handgun and picking enemies off with ease. What exactly am I missing here? I'm sorry, but I can't suddenly take a character seriously after laughing at him for three games.

Then you have Meryl, a character who had a chip on her shoulder. She wanted to prove that she was a strong and independent woman by moving on from the man who hurt her and making her own way in the world. This joke character, who she berated and ridiculed throughout the entire game, awkwardly pronounces his ten-year crush on her, and... She falls for him? Just like that? And literally minutes after Johnny admits his love to her, they're engaged? Really?

It made Meryl look weak - like she was settling for the next best thing. The fact that she fell for Johnny so quickly really negated the strides she made as a character.

It would have been one thing if this relationship was developed throughout the game, but it wasn't. They crammed into five minutes at break-neck speed. When Johnny was portrayed as a bumbling, ****ting goof throughout the majority of the game, and Meryl as a strong and independent woman, I didn't believe in this relationship. I wasn't given the time or appropriate character development to be invested in it.

That whole scene is one giant face-palm.
You read too much into it.

The nerd got the girl. Deal with it:word:
 
If Kojima really wanted to take Snake through the ringer, He should have had Meryl sacrifice herself for him.

Or have Johnny sacrifice himself for Meryl - and give the two a tender moment before he dies. He admits his love to her, and she is overcome by guilt and newfound respect for him. She apologizes, he accepts, he dies, and Meryl walks away an even stronger character.
Lame
 
As for the Meryl/Johnny relationship, I hated it. The whole thing felt forced, unnatural, and hamfisted.

Johnny is the punching bag of the series. He's a train-wreck of a soldier. Then suddenly, literally out of nowhere, he's the ultimate badass - wielding a sniper rifle like it's a frickin' handgun and picking enemies off with ease. What exactly am I missing here? I'm sorry, but I can't suddenly take a character seriously after laughing at him for three games.

Then you have Meryl, a character who had a chip on her shoulder. She wanted to prove that she was a strong and independent woman by moving on from the man who hurt her and making her own way in the world. This joke character, who she berated and ridiculed throughout the entire game, awkwardly pronounces his ten-year crush on her, and... She falls for him? Just like that? And literally minutes after Johnny admits his love to her, they're engaged? Really?

It made Meryl look weak - like she was settling for the next best thing. The fact that she fell for Johnny so quickly really negated the strides she made as a character.

It would have been one thing if this relationship was developed throughout the game, but it wasn't. They crammed into five minutes at break-neck speed. When Johnny was portrayed as a bumbling, ****ting goof throughout the majority of the game, and Meryl as a strong and independent woman, I didn't believe in this relationship. I wasn't given the time or appropriate character development to be invested in it.

That whole scene is one giant face-palm.

Totally agree. And I even care about Meryl and Snake getting together either. I honestly never really placed much importance on her. I kind of assumed she was dead since she was totally absent from MGS2.

Yea, im in the same boat man. Was disappointed they didn't end up together like they did at the end of MGS. But at the same time, Snake being by himself at the end worked.

Good to see I wasn't the only one. It was incredibly contrived and just completely uncharacteristic of her.

Boom I completely agree with you. Although Snake leaving her I'd like to think was because he wanted to spare her the mourning and sadness she'd have to go through if the FOXDIE ever kicked in and/or having her see him go through advanced aging. If anything it was a nice gesture on his part despite seemingly cold blooded on the outside.

You could still tell she cared for him. Seeing Meryl become so horny with Johnny McPoopPants at the end just didn't feel right.
 
Then you have Meryl, a character who had a chip on her shoulder. She wanted to prove that she was a strong and independent woman by moving on from the man who hurt her and making her own way in the world. This joke character, who she berated and ridiculed throughout the entire game, awkwardly pronounces his ten-year crush on her, and... She falls for him? Just like that? And literally minutes after Johnny admits his love to her, they're engaged? Really?

It made Meryl look weak - like she was settling for the next best thing. The fact that she fell for Johnny so quickly really negated the strides she made as a character.

It would have been one thing if this relationship was developed throughout the game, but it wasn't. They crammed into five minutes at break-neck speed. When Johnny was portrayed as a bumbling, ****ting goof throughout the majority of the game, and Meryl as a strong and independent woman, I didn't believe in this relationship. I wasn't given the time or appropriate character development to be invested in it.

That whole scene is one giant face-palm.

[YT]Y-c40dst5x0[/YT]
You forgot That Johnny saved Meryl in Europe. Look @ 50 seconds into the video.
The game was globetrotting and the time span from the beginning to end of the game was months. Not just that but Johnny and Meryl been working together a hell lot longer than the time Meryl spent with Snake in Shadow Moses. Their relationship was more believable to me.

Falling in love is weak regardeless. giving your heart to someone makes you vulnerable. There was always a little girl in Merly screaming to come out. You could tell from MGS1. This strong independent women has a soft spot for romatic ferry tales. I feel like she never went out of character.
 
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[YT]Y-c40dst5x0[/YT]
You forgot That Johnny saved Meryl in Europe.
The game was globetrotting and the time span from the beginning to end of the game was months. Not just that but Johnny and Meryl been working together a hell lot longer than the time Meryl spent with Snake in Shadow Moses. There relationship was more believable to me..
No it wasn't.
 
I guess it was a weak or two. It's still a reasonable amount of time for love to bloom on a battlefield.
 
Especially considering the same happened for Meryl and Snake in a few hours.

Anyway, what would people like to see in terms of MGS5? I want to see Liquid's (and maybe even Solidus') backstory personally. We were told in the run up to Peace Walker that people are neither good nor bad and we would see how Liquid came to be. I guess that was supposed to be through Miller, but I'd prefer to see it actually happen.
 
Honestly, if they came out with a full-fledged Metal Gear Solid 5, and it was just a prequel, I'm be disappointed to the point that I probably would just drop out of the franchise all together. I'm not really against the idea of prequels and side-stories (after all, there is a lot to potentially explode in MG's world), but I really just dislike the idea of creating a full fledged successor to the series as that. People will bring up MGS3, of course, but the situation is different, since that was kind of neccessary prequel for elements of MGS4. Since the story is, for all intents and purposes, over, there really isn't that same need, and it's simply fleshing out for the sake of fleshing out. Which isn't a bad thing, but there's no reason not to leave those games to handhelds, especially with the 3DS and Vita having a decent amount of power behind them now.
 
Anywho, my personal checklist for Metal Gear Solid 5 goes a little something like this:

-
First and foremost, to me, the most essential factor is doing something different and unexpected. Fans of anything in general are deathly afraid of that*, but the core theme of Metal Gear is that we don't have to repeat ourselves, despite what our genes or the society around us dictates. So, let's do something outside what we're suppose to do. That means no more gurrdammed clones, no 'Son of Snake' junk, no Snake wobbling out of retirement, simply because of the cry of "But that's what Metal Gear is!!" Because no, that is precisely what Metal Gear isn't, and in fact, it's very much counter-intuitive to the core of what MG is trying to put across to say that. And since MGS4 opened a new world without The Patriots, we have a whole new possible world to explore with a new cast of characters. That's not to say I feel we need to discard the old MGS crew all together, in fact I think having them in a supporting role would be essential (more on this with number two), but none of them as primary focus.

I threw the idea of Sunny taking over as Snake in a later future as an idea in this vein to much clinged butts and furious fingers on keyboards in response. And, boy, you want to talk about something that would cause some real nerd rage, you won't have to worry about rebooting the series at all**, that would literally break the internet in half. But really, I mainly threw that out there because, as I said, it's something different, it breaks the chain of what "must be", as Metal Gear Solid tells us we can throughout all four games. I'm not even really attached to the idea of Sunny as Snake by any means (and, like I said, I would prefer all former cast members to be support-only), but I really do like the idea of a female Snake, because it not only breaks the mold of MG, but also the mold of video games in general, since female protagonists in action games are rare, and generally scoffed at by the main demographics. Risky? Without doubt, but I think risk is essential to the series, and hell, it's built on that, since stealth has never really been a hugely popular or copied aspect in video games.

I think, really, I would like this new Snake (regardless of gender) to be generally disconnected from the Solid/Big Boss line, at least directly. And, in the spirit of being risky, I would even opt out for a new codenamed Snake and a new title for this character in the series. I don't think the codename Vapor was ever used for a Snake, and it goes in conjecture with Solid and Liquid, and I guess the random-ass Solidus name, too. So, instead of a Metal Gear Solid 5, I guess I'm purposing a Metal Gear Vapor (yeah, it doesn't quite roll off the tongue, but it's not too garish)

*See Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty for reference to this fact

**I actually disagree that rebooting would case all that much "nerd rage." In fact, I think that's generally what a lot of fans want and expect. There would be a vocal minority who disliked the idea, but they would probably be phased out pretty quickly.
 
Secondly, I would really like them to tone the scope of the game back to Metal Gear Solid level of having a single map with several branching, but connected, places around it (I guess more MGS3, but you get the idea). Yes, it is a bit of a step backwards, but I think with a new saga, there should be an attempt to refocus on these new characters, and give them the potential time to grow and eventually get to that point where the MGS crew got. Again, very risky indeed, because the main complaint would be that it was too small than its recent predecessors, but at the same time, if they did it well enough, those complaints wouldn't matter much.

Thirdly, I think the ideal theme for the game would be shifting from "Do we have to follow our gene?" to the "The battle between past and present." It sounds like the same thing at first glance, but it's actually kind of a natural progression. When we have this new slate, there will always be a bit of the past there, such as the returning crew in supporting roles (see, told you I would address that again later), but there's also that dark side of the past that says, "No, things must be this way!" Not only is it a very relatable and universal theme to explore, but it would add a meta-element to the story, because we are definitely living in a generation of redoes and reboots. And, not only that, but fans would be absolutely divided on all of this, with many wanting a return to something much more familiar. The wants and cries for reboots and retreads for the series are already prominent, and the first response to these ideas will, undoubtedly be "But that's not what Metal Gear is!" In the same way that these characters will be struggling with this in their world, they'll have to struggle with it in our world, too.

And lastly, I just want them to bring the ambition back. I'm talking the MGS2 "ain't afraid to go nowhere and back again" level of ambition. I know that idea probably makes the testicles of many fans retreat to their scrotum, since so many hate the game with passion, but dammed if that game did not break the bank with pure ambition. They has not been a mainstream game since, in my opinion, that has tried so hard to strain the line between fiction and reality like that game did, and I would love to see Kojima really delve into that part of his mind again to deliver something like it.
 
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I actually agree with you Tron Bonne. Seeing a constant retread of the Snake storyline would only serve to promote stagnation which is not what the MG series needs.

Let us not forget that one of the most influential and bad ass characters was The Boss a female character who showed that she could very well do anything a man could if not more.
 
Of course, I know as I'm typing this that none of this stuff is likely at all. Mainly because it would be too risky, and Konami would probably see it all as far too polarizing. Instead, what I expect is probably a far more "safe" option of another prequel, or some kind of lame "And Snake has to come back to the field once again!", or a full on reboot. I mean, I don't know, maybe Kojima will think up something radical enough for me to get attached to that, but I think it would probably be the great shark jumping moment for the series, because it would be conforming to the very ideas that Metal Gear Solid was railing against.

I also know that the potential for failure would definitely be higher with my idea (or a variation of it), making the sweat from exec's brows warranted. But I would rather have them try something radical like this, and have it be a big flop, then have them got straight for the reboot route or what have you. But I think the potential for it to be big is there, too. I mean, the last time they took a big ambitious turn in the series, it ended up being the best selling game in the franchise, despite the chagrin of some fans to that fact.
 
I actually agree with you Tron Bonne. Seeing a constant retread of the Snake storyline would only serve to promote stagnation which is not what the MG series needs.

Let us not forget that one of the most influential and bad ass characters was The Boss a female character who showed that she could very well do anything a man could if not more.

Yeah, definitely. I'm actually thinking that the best option, for awhile at least, is to retire the series for a few years. Really incubate some fresh ideas, you know, and come back and try something very fresh during the next generation of consoles. Not a particularly popular opinion, though.
 
I wouldn't mind. Then Kojima could finally focus on ZOE3.
 
Or that. He doesn't have to work just on Metal Gear. I'd honestly welcome a break so he can let his creative juices flow into other projects.
 
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