Sequels The Official Mike Dougherty & Dan Harris Thread

[dark_b]

The point is in those instances the director change came about for reasons that didn't make sense, here they do make sense.

WB invested 200 milions in a movie that had no action in a summer time next to summer blockbusters.
IMO its their fault

 

[J.Howlett]

hunter,

Again, that has to do with the character, not the film itself. That is one of the main problems with this franchise to begin with.

If you did a poll with the mass audiences, I can pretty much guarantee that they would all flock to a Batman, X-Men, or Spider-Man film before they flock to a Superman film.

Again, for Bryan to make a serviceable film to reboot WB's multi-million dollar character/franchise after the countless restarts (straight up terrible ideas) is pretty damn remarkable.

With the origin without really doing the origin out of the way, let's see where he takes it. There are plenty of plot threads left wide open in the Returns to explore the character even further than ever.

 

[Super Kal]

Indeed. Maybe if we're lucky, they'll replace the cast too and completely start over. t:

"The Origin of Superman: coming in 2010."

 

[J.Howlett]

hunter,

WB should've never made that film for that much in the first place. I mean, look what Bay did with Transformers on a 145 million dollar budget. I place some of the blame on Singer about the budget but not all of it. These hollywood execs just throw money around like it's damn candy and it'll cost them in the end.

 

[Hunter Rider]

hunter,

Again, that has to do with the character, not the film itself. That is one of the main problems with this franchise to begin with.

If you did a poll with the mass audiences, I can pretty much guarantee that they would all flock to a Batman, X-Men, or Spider-Man film before they flock to a Superman film.

Again, for Bryan to make a serviceable film to reboot WB's multi-million dollar character/franchise after the countless restarts (straight up terrible ideas) is pretty damn remarkable.

With the origin without really doing the origin out of the way, let's see where he takes it. There are plenty of plot threads left wide open in the Returns to explore the character even further than ever.

I disagree, i think there is a Superman movie that is capable of doing what WB want straight out the chute with the right director at the helm.

As for plot threads, there are a few i personally hope will be lost with these changes.

 

[J.Howlett]

hunter,

You still had to reintroduce the guy to the world without actually redoing the origin. That was the dilemna from the get go because EVERYONE knows the origin. Nobody wants to see it again and yet you can't just go right into a Superman film with a new supervillian without some basis to get it started.

Every director was having that problem with their ideas. Singer was the only bright one in the bunch to say let's get back and fix what Donner was trying to do and then go forward after we finish this first film because no matter how you spin, the origin can't be done any better for this character in the way Donner did it. That 's why Singer didn't want to do the origin directly.

Every origin film for a comic character today pretty much follows the template that Donner set. And there's a pretty damn great reason for that...

 

[Super Kal]

and the best that he could do was a STM rehash...

yeah, no thanks

 

[J.Howlett]

And let's be really honest, it's partially a rehash and original in it's own right. Don't spin it....

Someone besides Singer would've done a remake of Superman The Movie....which is better?

Again, WB and Singer were right to not directly redo the origin. It can't be done any better and it doesn't need to be done because everyone knows it.

It's not like Batman who's origin hasn't really been directly addressed or Spider-Man who's never had a film. Big differences.

 

[Hunter Rider]

hunter,

You still had to reintroduce the guy to the world without actually redoing the origin. That was the dilemna from the get go because EVERYONE knows the origin. Nobody wants to see it again and yet you can't just go right into a Superman film with a new supervillian without some basis to get it started.

Every director was having that problem with their ideas. Singer was the only bright one in the bunch to say let's get back and fix what Donner was trying to do and then go forward after we finish this first film because no matter how you spin, the origin can't be done any better for this character in the way Donner did it. That 's why Singer didn't want to do the origin directly.

Every origin film for a comic character today pretty much follows the template that Donner set. And there's a pretty damn great reason for that...

There were ways to do it without adding on all the baggage he added, as i said being less crap doesn't make you good either, not that i thought SR was crap but my point is i think there were ways to achieve more than what he did with a different approach to the premise.

 

[J.Howlett]

hunter,

Sure, they probably could've done more with the premise Singer has but this is what we got and it still cleared 391 million worldwide with a character, I still maintain, isn't as revelant or popular as some seem to think he is....

 

[fabman]

There were ways to do it without adding on all the baggage he added, as i said being less crap doesn't make you good either, not that i thought SR was crap but my point is i think there were ways to achieve more than what he did with a different approach to the premise.

Supah-dupah quote!

 

[Hunter Rider]

hunter,

Sure, they probably could've done more with the premise Singer has but this is what we got and it still cleared 391 million worldwide with a character, I still maintain, isn't as revelant or popular as some seem to think he is....

And i still say a Superman movie should be able to make a lot more than a Bourne movie in the US.

I won't be overjoyed if he goes but i also won't care, I am open to where this could go.

 

[Super Kal]

It can't be done any better and it doesn't need to be done because everyone knows it.

actually, it CAN be done better... STAS and Byrne's vision was beautifully done, and on screen it would blow away STM's version.

Everyone at WB is just too afraid to get their butts out of the past and do something original and innovative.

 

[matrix_ghost]

I share the same feelings as treeringralph. I think SR had a lot of potential and was no way a terrible movie. Even with the kid. (Boo hoo) I don't think many people here give SR a fair chance because they identify with their own vision of Superman so much that they can't relate to someone else's vision, which is different but not necessarily bad. Everyone wants to see the Superman they already know. I enjoyed Singer's Superman and thought it worked for the most part, especially as just a fresh start for the franchise. New writers doesn't necessarily mean a good or bad thing as long as the story connects if it is a sequel. I don't think the sequel should ignore any detail in SR. And, I hope Singer stays attached to make the transition to new writers smooth. MOS as a sequel shouldn't feel like a reboot.

I am no doubt happy that Dougherty & Harris are of the sequel and i'm still waiting for the news that Singer leaves the sequel . It's just for the better . Singer is a good director but IMO he's just not right for a superman movie or at least his interpretation. Having said that , i was one oft hose people who would've watched Wrath Of KHan-Superman if it were made. I'm hugely disappointed with SR but even so i'd watch the sequel just to see how things would end up.

Anyways i'd like to comment on what you said ( the bolded part)
I think many of us have different interpretations of various comic book characters but amongst all those people there is a singular view as how they see certain characters.
And when you deviate from that view it can ultimately lead to many people being disappointed with it.
I think that Singer had a great pitch elements presented in SR such him still longing for Krypton. That he is the ultimate outsider and that ultimately has the effect on him that he leaves earth to search for krypton. Upon his return he must win back his respect amongst earth's citizens and in particular his love Lois Lane.
That IMO is a perfect pitch but Singer just took is in a completely different direction WHICH I don't agree with and furthermore has complicated things by giving him a son.

It's not that i can't relate to his superman interpretation.I can ....to a certain extent It's his way of shaping things that i don't agree with.
God knows that my interpretation of Batman is still very different then what we got in BB. Still i rate Batman BEgins as my no 1 comic book flick of all time because it got many elements right that are associated with Batman.



Who knows maybe they'll get David Hayter working on the script t:

 

[J.Howlett]

kararot,

The high lights of the origin, no matter who did it, would've still been exactly like Donner's, exactly like it is in the comic.

The origin can't and won't change because there's no need to do it. The basics never change, no matter what "original" elements you put in.

 

[Timstuff]

Again, WB and Singer were right to not directly redo the origin. It can't be done any better and it doesn't need to be done because everyone knows it.

Highlighted in green is the part that's true.

 

[Super Kal]

kararot,

The high lights of the origin, no matter who did it, would've still been exactly like Donner's, exactly like it is in the comic.

The origin can't and won't change because there's no need to do it. The basics never change, no matter what "original" elements you put in.

you cannot say that as fact because the fact is no one knows... they couldn't think out of a 20 yr old box, and it hurt the film.

 

[matrix_ghost]

As usual, SR haters are reading a lot more into this article than it really says. Dougherty and Harris probably made a pitch that the studio wasn´t that happy with, which is why they´re hurrying the JL movie instead. None of that means Singer is out of the picture. Sam Raimi directed all three Spider-Man movies and they had different writers involved at different points.

And don´t believe for a second that WB will go out and do a Superman Begins - I have no idea why tell a step-by-step Superman origin yet again when Donner already did it brilliantly anyway. There is hardly any visible enthusiasm for Marvel´s "let´s redo this all over again" with Hulk, and SR ALREADY was supposed to be a "redo" in some ways, and with Supes being part of JL it´s likely to generate A TON of confusion for the audience to just completely redo the franchise all over again.

From the sound of how JL is shaping up and the sucess of a cheesy dumb franchise adaptation like Transformers, you´re more likely to get a retrocess to the Batman & Robin days when studios couldn´t care less for what fanboys want than the anally comics-accurate take you keep *****ing for.

True , but i think the reason why many people are thinking that Singer will drop out soon is because just like any director you want to have your core members always attached when making a movie. Especially with things such as screen writing etc.
It's just like Spielberg always has Janusz Kaminsky as cinematorgrapher for his movies ( well ever since Schindler's List) , John Williams as his composer and Dennis Muren as his VFX supervisor. He's comfortable with the people hes working with. Ditto with Peter Jackson who has his his wife & fran
philippa boyens as his co-screenwriters.

Raimi had his brother for all 3 spider-man movies and david koepp as the writer on the first movie. Sargent worked Spiderman 2 and 3.

Dougherty and Harris worked with Singer on X2 and subsequently on SR.To just suddenly stop doesn't necessarely mean doom , but it could be an indication that Singer will eventually bow out.
Or not because just like you said , there are often different writers attached for various projects. But again , directors always tend to work with a core crew especially if they can hit it off. Clearly that happened with writers and singer on SR and X2

 

[Jlandsw]

Somebody fly me down to WB's studio. I wanna pitch an idea!!!!!


...yes I'm serious.

 

[Gotham]

Somebody fly me down to WB's studio. I wanna pitch an idea!!!!!


...yes I'm serious.

Excel has beat you to it, apparently, I think.

 

[Showtime]

To Hunter's question, I am not necessarily saying that Singer messed up all the ideas, but if you read the script and compare it to the movie then you will see a better flow and a better story. Sure, I know that scripts rarely if ever, make it to the screen as they are but the editing for thsi movie was horrible. Some of what was cut out of the drafts of the script was better than what was filmed, some of what was cut from the film would have made for a better story. It's a nightmare.

 

[matrix_ghost]

Somebody fly me down to WB's studio. I wanna pitch an idea!!!!!


...yes I'm serious.

I think we all want to pitch in our ideas t:

But seriously it's not impossible. I remember reading somewhere that a guy who posted at ( i think) AICN had once written a script and it was brought under WB's attention. They liked it so much that they bought it. Dunno if they went ahead to use it as a script for the next superman sequel ( this btw is development hell period before SR) and ultimately decided it çouldn't work or they simply didn't use it

 

[Showtime]

It would be incredibly easy to get Superman off the ground without retelling the origin or continuing from Singer's film.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I think the only reason why SR is hated is because it doesn't have wall to wall action. Personally I love the film and find it to be a great piece of art on the big screen.

But in any case, my guess is they'll probably do a complete restart of Supermans origins and include mindless action so fanboys can be happy.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Singer is just as responsible for the lame SR story as were the two writers, so IMO, he needs to go as well. All three of them were on that vacation talking about how they came up with that story. The only difference is, Singer didn't flesh out the story into a script, but those were still his ideas in there! And because Singer was so close to the two writers on creating this story, I feel/hope he will be next to leave or not be asked back to continue this franchise.