Superman Returns New Dougherty and Harris Interview

[charl_huntress]

It's so funny to hear a bunch of fanboys moan about getting rid of Singer. That really is ridiculous. I love how most people here think so highly of their writing and film producing skills that they presume to degrade a man who started the superhero film reniasance.

My Starship Cap'n...you might want to attribute that to Donner. LOL...it's pretty obvious who Singer thinks started it because he was on his knees to him nearly the whole movie. And....uuhhhh...I would give more credit to Burton for re-starting the superhero franchise after Donner. LOL...Singer did re-start it again with X-Men, but...him starting IT. Kirk, he wasn't even old enough.

I am glad not to make an ass of myself like that. SR is far above many other superhero films, and certainly above X3. I am not so hyperactive that I can't appreciate a personal emotional journey into Superman lore.

Okay, this is an MB. Who is really getting hyper active. It amazes me how people take posting habits and typing as....like real behavior. Everyone knows people don't act like this in real life. That is why MBs are great. It's a diversion for some base pleasure of going on and on about stuff that in the scheme of things doesn't matter.

It was a film that I enjoy the more I see it ,and it had the right amount of action. My ONLY complaint!

If you left that film thinking of a complaint then the film didn't do it's job. Complaining is for later, not for when you just leave the movie.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Wow your post count is getting up there , Huntress. I guess I better get to it. You know I wish I had not researched the movie so much, and just went to see it obivious of the surprises. Anyway, I think it is more acurate to say that Singer got the ball rolling again on the realm of superhero films, because after Batman and Robin people didn't care to see a comic book campfest. X-Men changed all of that, and made comic-films profitable again but take it as you will. I am sure I won't change some opinions here, but I guess I could be labeled as Pro-SR! It's fun to be positive!

 

[Steelsheen]

Superman Returns in someways reminds me of the Hulk, though the backlash wasn't as great: A movie that tried (and suceeded in some parts) to be more than a comic book movie. Something more spiritual...

The issue is that sometimes the filmmakers try TOO HARD to be something that they're not, and result is sometimes lukewarm. Just like Hulk and Superman Returns.

agreed

 

[Captain Kirk]

Hulk similar to SR? SR is a good film though.

 

[charl_huntress]

Wow your post count is getting up there , Huntress. I guess I better get to it. You know I wish I had not researched the movie so much, and just went to see it obivious of the surprises. Anyway, I think it is more acurate to say that Singer got the ball rolling again on the realm of superhero films, because after Batman and Robin people didn't care to see a comic book campfest. X-Men changed all of that, and made comic-films profitable again but take it as you will. I am sure I won't change some opinions here, but I guess I could be labeled as Pro-SR! It's fun to be positive!

LOL...I can't post on the boards where I used to because there are just sheep bahhhing for Singer. I will never do that again. So, SHH is getting all the excess.

X-Men did change a lot...too bad Singer doesn't have the magic wand for Superman. He'd be good, but if he doesn't get some help...then....well....

 

[Zorex]

Well, Singer, Doherty and Harris did come up with the whole concept behind Superman Returns while they were in Hawaii together.

Okay.

One who is openly gay and the other two supposedly gay.

Figure out the rest.

That "vacation" may have prompted a lot of emotional thinking for the writers to develop their EMO Superman.

I've figured out that...they were on vacation. Am I right? Do I win anything?

 

[Captain Kirk]

Just what the hell does Emo mean anyway? Superman is not Spock so it is okay for him to show emotion. At least he didn't gush about it like Peter in Spidey 2. Hell, spidey gave up the fight, but Superman did not.

 

[Retroman]

I think EMO in this case means emotional not emo as in the emo hairstyle.

 

[dpm07]

Superman Returns in someways reminds me of the Hulk, though the backlash wasn't as great: A movie that tried (and suceeded in some parts) to be more than a comic book movie. Something more spiritual...

The issue is that sometimes the filmmakers try TOO HARD to be something that they're not, and result is sometimes lukewarm. Just like Hulk and Superman Returns.

That's a good assessment.

 

[Dotten]

Just what the hell does Emo mean anyway?

I think some people want him to be macho as hell with no emotions whatsoever.

The same people would probably want "the governor" Arnold as the caped hero, with the title of the movie to be: Superman: Termination day

I pray to god (and I'm not even religious) that they don't make the movie like many fans want it to be - a movie that is just one big fight between Superman and some supervillain. That would please the 16 year old fans who rate a movies quality by the amount of blood and violence, but it would kill the movie for everybody else.

 

[Captain Kirk]

I think some people want him to be macho as hell with no emotions whatsoever.

The same people would probably want "the governor" Arnold as the caped hero, with the title of the movie to be: Superman: Termination day

I pray to god (and I'm not even religious) that they don't make the movie like many fans want it to be - a movie that is just one big fight between Superman and some supervillain. That would please the 16 year old fans who rate a movies quality by the amount of blood and violence, but it would kill the movie for everybody else.

Amen to that!

 

[Galactical]

Hulk similar to SR? SR is a good film though.

I view both on the same level. take that as you will.

 

[dpm07]

I view both on the same level. take that as you will.

That's actually been a common theme. SR is basically the DC version of The Hulk. It's aesthetically amazing, but the story is uniquely underwhelming in its portrayal, and the action is rather limited considering the particular characters and SFX available to put these characters on-screen.

 

[Steelsheen]

Hulk, BB and now SR targets the "thinking man" more than say-- FF.

i'm actually very curious how BB2 will turn out. they know what were its weaknesses, so i'm wondering how they plan to improve on them. and if they do come up with a better sequel-- improving his weaknesses while maintainig its strengths-- i wonder if SR2 will follow that "formula".

 

[dpm07]

Hulk, BB and now SR targets the "thinking man" more than say-- FF.

i'm actually very curious how BB2 will turn out. they know what were its weaknesses, so i'm wondering how they plan to improve on them. and if they do come up with a better sequel-- improving his weaknesses while maintainig its strengths-- i wonder if SR2 will follow that "formula".

BB2 will be even better than BB I think. The fact that they did a relaunch and brought Batman back to what really is the essence of the character is a credit to Nolan. He tended to listen to what was out there, and knew the character needed a relaunch to be viable for today and to distance him from the debacle of the 90's.

Unfortunately, Singer felt he had to do the opposite. Instead of bringing Superman into the modern era with a relaunch, he instead chose to stay with the original formula which was to his chagrin. While he did move the character forward with regard to Jason, the other elements and pacing of the story were very much tit for tat similar to the Donner film. This obviously has not resonated with the fans, nor has the embracing of Jason. It is very apparent in watching the film that Singer neglected many aspects that have brought Superman back to the forefront and that is the STAS/JL/JLU. Those animated stories have given Superman a foothold which Singer could use to bring Superman back to the big screen in dramatic fashion. This is even more noticeable in the recent documentary Up, Up, and Away which Singer produced. He knew what was going to be in it, and he downplayed many modern things that have really brought Superman back into the light. As evidenced by his approach, this has failed to ignite the audiences.

The blame rests solely on Singer and his associates. Their insistence on using a film as a template that should have remained in the past, has been their undoing.

Will Singer be able to recover with a sequel? Hard to say. If I were WB, I'd seriously consider letting him go, and a few years down the line do a relaunch. What is hard, is that if they do that route, they can't say "Superman Returns" again. That tag's been used now, and the bite is gone. This was a great opportunity for Singer, and he really didn't capitalize on it. There is a formula that is working with the superhero films. Nolan understands it, and so does Raimi. It's called balance. Action, Drama, Emotion, and Consistency. This film was limited on action with a lack of climax or clash between a hero and villain in a superbattle. Drama was there, but it was too heavy in some areas and came across choppy in others, IMO. Emotion. This is hear, but still choppy, and the introduction of the kid really shakes up things in the franchise, and that's not necessarily a good thing. It creates an issue in and of itself. If they needed to introduce someone for Superman to mentor, it should have been Kara and not until a 2nd or 3rd film. Consistency. I really didn't see a lot of it in this film, and what was seen was executed poorly, IMO.

 

[Steelsheen]

BB2 will be even better than BB I think. The fact that they did a relaunch and brought Batman back to what really is the essence of the character is a credit to Nolan. He tended to listen to what was out there, and knew the character needed a relaunch to be viable for today and to distance him from the debacle of the 90's.

Unfortunately, Singer felt he had to do the opposite. Instead of bringing Superman into the modern era with a relaunch, he instead chose to stay with the original formula which was to his chagrin.

well, you have a very valid point, but then what you said can also be used as to why Singer went with the Donner tit for tat: he knows that people LOVED the Donner films, they LOVED Christopher Reeve. hence coming up with a film that is nearly a clone of the '78 films, nearly the entire visual cue of SR came from those films. and for the most part, the GP responds positively to that. the loved the Williams' theme, they have responded postively to Routh, they loved seeing the spruced up version of the FOS, hearing Brando again was even a drawing factor.

but somewhere along the way Singer dropped the ball. could it be Superkid? a lot of the folks i talked to already had a suspicion that Jason was Superman's son walking into the theater. they liked the piano sequence, but the thought of Superdad-Superkid was mixed, some liked it, some didnt.

maybe the emotional aspect of Superman is something they didnt expect, or that it was essentially Superman 3. SR is more "subtle" than "bombastic". i wonder if they were expecting bombastic.

 

[WormyT]

BB2 will be even better than BB I think. The fact that they did a relaunch and brought Batman back to what really is the essence of the character is a credit to Nolan. He tended to listen to what was out there, and knew the character needed a relaunch to be viable for today and to distance him from the debacle of the 90's.

Unfortunately, Singer felt he had to do the opposite. Instead of bringing Superman into the modern era with a relaunch, he instead chose to stay with the original formula which was to his chagrin. While he did move the character forward with regard to Jason, the other elements and pacing of the story were very much tit for tat similar to the Donner film. This obviously has not resonated with the fans, nor has the embracing of Jason. It is very apparent in watching the film that Singer neglected many aspects that have brought Superman back to the forefront and that is the STAS/JL/JLU. Those animated stories have given Superman a foothold which Singer could use to bring Superman back to the big screen in dramatic fashion. This is even more noticeable in the recent documentary Up, Up, and Away which Singer produced. He knew what was going to be in it, and he downplayed many modern things that have really brought Superman back into the light. As evidenced by his approach, this has failed to ignite the audiences.

The blame rests solely on Singer and his associates. Their insistence on using a film as a template that should have remained in the past, has been their undoing.

Will Singer be able to recover with a sequel? Hard to say. If I were WB, I'd seriously consider letting him go, and a few years down the line do a relaunch. What is hard, is that if they do that route, they can't say "Superman Returns" again. That tag's been used now, and the bite is gone. This was a great opportunity for Singer, and he really didn't capitalize on it. There is a formula that is working with the superhero films. Nolan understands it, and so does Raimi. It's called balance. Action, Drama, Emotion, and Consistency. This film was limited on action with a lack of climax or clash between a hero and villain in a superbattle. Drama was there, but it was too heavy in some areas and came across choppy in others, IMO. Emotion. This is hear, but still choppy, and the introduction of the kid really shakes up things in the franchise, and that's not necessarily a good thing. It creates an issue in and of itself. If they needed to introduce someone for Superman to mentor, it should have been Kara and not until a 2nd or 3rd film. Consistency. I really didn't see a lot of it in this film, and what was seen was executed poorly, IMO.

I agree with absolutely EVERYTHING you wrote.
Yes, Kara would be an obvious choice or a Conner/Clone type if they absolutely HAD to add more kryptonians/sidekicks etc.
Ugh! Theres such a great volume of reference in the books and cartoons Singer could have used to lay the groundwork for a kick ass trilogy that incorporates REAL characters from the books. How could he just ignore the source material? Is he really that disinterested in the comics? SUperman is a comic book. Nothing cool was taken from the superman books for this movie or ANY superman movie. I thought Singer might put in some stuff left out by the original movies.
That was NOT the case. We need a new rogue director like Nolan whos in touch with the mythos.

 

[Metropolis_Man]

Good article. I wish they would've responded some to the fans responses to it all.

 

[Octoberist]

Hulk, BB and now SR targets the "thinking man" more than say-- FF.

i'm actually very curious how BB2 will turn out. they know what were its weaknesses, so i'm wondering how they plan to improve on them. and if they do come up with a better sequel-- improving his weaknesses while maintainig its strengths-- i wonder if SR2 will follow that "formula".

The difference being that Batman begins has actual acclaim. I've never seen a movie that appealed to so many people, in real life and online. And when's the last time you see online people liking something?

Batman Begins was a movie that I love. I respect Nolan and Goyer for actually doing quite a bit of research (Frank Miller, Dennis O' Neal, Jeph Loeb), even down to Victor Zsaz.

 

[Octoberist]

BB2 will be even better than BB I think. The fact that they did a relaunch and brought Batman back to what really is the essence of the character is a credit to Nolan. He tended to listen to what was out there, and knew the character needed a relaunch to be viable for today and to distance him from the debacle of the 90's.

Unfortunately, Singer felt he had to do the opposite. Instead of bringing Superman into the modern era with a relaunch, he instead chose to stay with the original formula which was to his chagrin. While he did move the character forward with regard to Jason, the other elements and pacing of the story were very much tit for tat similar to the Donner film. This obviously has not resonated with the fans, nor has the embracing of Jason. It is very apparent in watching the film that Singer neglected many aspects that have brought Superman back to the forefront and that is the STAS/JL/JLU. Those animated stories have given Superman a foothold which Singer could use to bring Superman back to the big screen in dramatic fashion. This is even more noticeable in the recent documentary Up, Up, and Away which Singer produced. He knew what was going to be in it, and he downplayed many modern things that have really brought Superman back into the light. As evidenced by his approach, this has failed to ignite the audiences.

The blame rests solely on Singer and his associates. Their insistence on using a film as a template that should have remained in the past, has been their undoing.

Will Singer be able to recover with a sequel? Hard to say. If I were WB, I'd seriously consider letting him go, and a few years down the line do a relaunch. What is hard, is that if they do that route, they can't say "Superman Returns" again. That tag's been used now, and the bite is gone. This was a great opportunity for Singer, and he really didn't capitalize on it. There is a formula that is working with the superhero films. Nolan understands it, and so does Raimi. It's called balance. Action, Drama, Emotion, and Consistency. This film was limited on action with a lack of climax or clash between a hero and villain in a superbattle. Drama was there, but it was too heavy in some areas and came across choppy in others, IMO. Emotion. This is hear, but still choppy, and the introduction of the kid really shakes up things in the franchise, and that's not necessarily a good thing. It creates an issue in and of itself. If they needed to introduce someone for Superman to mentor, it should have been Kara and not until a 2nd or 3rd film. Consistency. I really didn't see a lot of it in this film, and what was seen was executed poorly, IMO.

I agree.

The lack of balance alienated some people from Hulk. I hate using that movie all the time Hulk-fans, but the bottom line is that even Marvel felt that the movie didn't win people over. (Although I disagree about a 'restart with a new cast' . That's silly to brush off Jennifer Conerlly.)

Superman Return, to me, is not a failure. Nor do I think hit the target like Batman Begins.

 

[WormyT]

Batman Begins was a movie that I love. I respect Nolan and Goyer for actually doing quite a bit of research (Frank Miller, Dennis O' Neal, Jeph Loeb), even down to Victor Zsaz.

Exactly.
Nolan went deep into certain stories and pulled from that. Singer like Ang Lee acted like theres nothing interesting to pull from the books.
Eh no, you nit wits..quit taking drugs, and looks at the source material.

 

[dpm07]

Exactly.
Nolan went deep into certain stories and pulled from that. Singer like Ang Lee acted like theres nothing interesting to pull from the books.
Eh no, you nit wits..quit taking drugs, and looks at the source material.

Singer, Harris and Dougherty took a vacation to Hawaii together, and used this time to come up with ideas and approaches to make Superman the film they ended up making.

Personally, I'd have spent that time in the library or watching STAS/JL/JLU, or hell, someone's comic book basement to draw my inspiration for Superman.

At any rate, I'd have saved on the budget for Hawaii to brainstorm ideas. It's not much, but would have chipped off the 200+ million debacle that they made.

 

[TerryBollea]

UMMM posting after every negitive post trying to refute it is trying to force your opinion on people and trying to spin that as not forcing your opinion on people is classic.
And anyone can easily search your posts and see you do alot of refuting any negative posts.

I'm thinking you don't really get the whole point of this "forum" thing. So, is he supposed to debate the point by *conceding* every argument?

 

[TerryBollea]

Superman Returns in someways reminds me of the Hulk, though the backlash wasn't as great: A movie that tried (and suceeded in some parts) to be more than a comic book movie. Something more spiritual...

Hulk's problem, IMO is that the story tried to be some sort of deep psychological examination, but it was psedo-deep pap no one cared about written about characters no one cared about directed by someone way out of their element.

Superman Returns may or may not have had its issues, but the story was reasonable enough: Superman leaves. Superman comes back. Everyone has moved on. An isolated Superman tries to find his place in the world again.

 

[dpm07]

Hulk's problem, IMO is that the story tried to be some sort of deep psychological examination, but it was psedo-deep pap no one cared about written about characters no one cared about directed by someone way out of their element.

Superman Returns may or may not have had its issues, but the story was reasonable enough: Superman leaves. Superman comes back. Everyone has moved on. An isolated Superman tries to find his place in the world again.

The concept of the return is a great idea, but the story itself leaves a lot to be desired as one fleshes through the outline of the story. That's just basice College Freshman English 101​