The Dark Knight The Official Plot holes thread.

[Motown Marvel]

If this is sarcasm, I would like to point out that he did qualify with "the movies reality."

As for how it worked in the movies realm of reality, the device hacked into all the cellphones, getting them to emit pings which are then heard by the same phone's own speaker sending the info back to the machine which takes the data and is able to create an image. I suppose the computer is so powerful it can take all that info and compile a large area like the building they were in.

even within the realm of the movies reality, thats impossible. the phones would require some of the most advanced sonar hardware technology in order for that to work. i understand a suspension of belief in movies, but that only works to a certain degree. when some ridiculous and clearly impossible magic machine pops up at the end to resolve the movie, thats pretty cheap.

 

[bobguy64]

but to make that work, the phones require modification. fox himself, when explaining the phone to bruce in hong kong, said he modified it. and turning a phones signal into 3-d live sonar, would require modification with hardware technology. its not just a program you'd upload and install.

Right, at least at that point in the film. I'm thinking Bruce adapted that technology to work with existing cell phone signals. Obviously, modifying all the cell phones in Gotham is out of the question.

 

[jackjack924]

I'm going to re type my post because I'm really curious to see if I'm missing something or not. I would LOVE an answer:

So the interrogation scene. The Joker has kidnapped Harvey Dent and Rachel Dawes and forces Batman to choose which one to save. I'm assuming this is part of the reason why the Joker wanted to be put in MCU (the other to get Lau).

This scene takes place right after the chase scene. Now during that scene, the Joker is trying to kill Harvey Dent. Now the Joker here thinks that Dent is Batman, so why not kill two birds with one stone, right? At least according to the shooting script, he thought that Dent was Batman and the person driving the Batmobile "could be anyone. Stay on Dent." then when Batman comes out on the batpod, the Joker goes "Guess that was him."

So if the Joker thought that Dent was Batman and only discovered that he wasn't during the chase scene, why would he plan to have Rachel and Harvey kidnapped to play that joke on Batman? He couldn't have come up with it on the spot when he found out that Dent wasn't Batman, it would take too much planning and he went directly to MCU. I can't make sense of it.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Right, at least at that point in the film. I'm thinking Bruce adapted that technology to work with existing cell phone signals. Obviously, modifying all the cell phones in Gotham is out of the question.

but a phone cant have sonar technology unless its modified TO HAVE sonar technology. you cant just take a cell phone signal and use it to create a live feed of 3-d sonar. a machine cant just do that. thats just as impossible as batman personally modifying all the phones in gotham.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I'm going to re type my post because I'm really curious to see if I'm missing something or not. I would LOVE an answer:

So the interrogation scene. The Joker has kidnapped Harvey Dent and Rachel Dawes and forces Batman to choose which one to save. I'm assuming this is part of the reason why the Joker wanted to be put in MCU (the other to get Lau).

This scene takes place right after the chase scene. Now during that scene, the Joker is trying to kill Harvey Dent. Now the Joker here thinks that Dent is Batman, so why not kill two birds with one stone, right? At least according to the shooting script, he thought that Dent was Batman and the person driving the Batmobile "could be anyone. Stay on Dent." then when Batman comes out on the batpod, the Joker goes "Guess that was him."

So if the Joker thought that Dent was Batman and only discovered that he wasn't during the chase scene, why would he plan to have Rachel and Harvey kidnapped to play that joke on Batman? He couldn't have come up with it on the spot when he found out that Dent wasn't Batman, it would take too much planning and he went directly to MCU. I can't make sense of it.

i see your point. the only thing i could think of would be the joker having had contingency plans. i mean, obviously he hatched these plans with his henchmen. he coulda told them that if he doest get to them, then they need to when he cant, and when they do, take them here and here, though not necessarily with the intentions to trick batman. though, when confronted by batman, joker was allowed to say "blah blah blah" and got to mess with bats.

 

[Ishmayl]

I'm not entirely convinced the Joker actually believed Dent was Batman, and maybe he set the whole thing up in advance, knowing the real Bats would show up?

 

[Wolverine_05]

even within the realm of the movies reality, thats impossible. the phones would require some of the most advanced sonar hardware technology in order for that to work. i understand a suspension of belief in movies, but that only works to a certain degree. when some ridiculous and clearly impossible magic machine pops up at the end to resolve the movie, thats pretty cheap.

The phones are just the sender/reciever, all the interpretation of that data is done by the computer, that's where the advanced technology is. I don't disagree that it's way out there in plausibility.

 

[bobguy64]

but a phone cant have sonar technology unless its modified TO HAVE sonar technology. you cant just take a cell phone signal and use it to create a live feed of 3-d sonar.

This is the 'new technology' part.

Of course it doesn't exist any more than a flying cape exists.

It's the movies' reality. Just like a car that can jump.

 

[jackjack924]

I'm not entirely convinced the Joker actually believed Dent was Batman, and maybe he set the whole thing up in advance, knowing the real Bats would show up?

According to the shooting script I don't think that's the case. But they did cut out those particular lines during the chase scene so hopefully Chris Nolan realized that and intentionally cut them out. During the chase scene I thought that the Joker knew that Dent wasn't Batman but only wanted to bring Batman out so that A) he could see what he would do and B) so that he could get lock in MCU and play that fantastic joke on Batman.

But after reading the script it just became more confusing because the Joker did seem to believe that Dent was Batman.

 

[Motown Marvel]

The phones are just the sender/reciever, all the interpretation of that data is done by the computer, that's where the advanced technology is. I don't disagree that it's way out there in plausibility.

but for a machine to intepret a simple cell phone signal and turn it into live 3-d sonar, thats not advanced technology, thats just magic. i mean, why not just give batman "love goggles". he wears them over his cowl, they shoot out love beams, then everyone loves eachother and gotham is saved from crime. its just as ridiculous.

This is the 'new technology' part.

Of course it doesn't exist any more than a flying cape exists.

It's the movies' reality. Just like a car that can jump.

the difference with those is, though it may not be fully developed, technology for those are at least plausible. those things can be developed with the technology available. but this magic machine that can turn cell phone signals into live 3-d sonar that can produce a detailed map of an entire city is just sheer nonsense.

 

[Silver Souper]

According to the shooting script I don't think that's the case. But they did cut out those particular lines during the chase scene so hopefully Chris Nolan realized that and intentionally cut them out. During the chase scene I thought that the Joker knew that Dent wasn't Batman but only wanted to bring Batman out so that A) he could see what he would do and B) so that he could get lock in MCU and play that fantastic joke on Batman.

But after reading the script it just became more confusing because the Joker did seem to believe that Dent was Batman.

i think nolan cut them out intentionally because joker is not sold on the whole "dent is batman" thing. for crap's sake- batman is asking "where are THEY" and joker isn't surprised- and he knows he has dent, so clearly they adjusted the shoot to fix that problem.

 

[Silver Souper]

this bugs me- why didn't they force joker to wash his face off? I know it was a heightened state of emergency but he was in the cell for awhile- plenty of time. considering there was no other way to ID him, why not clean his face and take a photo? or maybe they did, and that's why the makeup was partially removed and smeared- meaning that it doesn't fully come off?

 

[jackjack924]

i think nolan cut them out intentionally because joker is not sold on the whole "dent is batman" thing. for crap's sake- batman is asking "where are THEY" and joker isn't surprised- and he knows he has dent, so clearly they adjusted the shoot to fix that problem.

Yeah I'll accept that. The movie itself is the final product.

 

[I Am The Knight]

but for a machine to intepret a simple cell phone signal and turn it into live 3-d sonar, thats not advanced technology, thats just magic. i mean, why not just give batman "love goggles". he wears them over his cowl, they shoot out love beams, then everyone loves eachother and gotham is saved from crime. its just as ridiculous.

the difference with those is, though it may not be fully developed, technology for those are at least plausible. those things can be developed with the technology available. but this magic machine that can turn cell phone signals into live 3-d sonar that can produce a detailed map of an entire city is just sheer nonsense.

It was a hard sell, yeah.

 

[bobguy64]

this bugs me- why didn't they force joker to wash his face off? I know it was a heightened state of emergency but he was in the cell for awhile- plenty of time. considering there was no other way to ID him, why not clean his face and take a photo? or maybe they did, and that's why the makeup was partially removed and smeared- meaning that it doesn't fully come off?

In Marilyn Manson's book, he details being arrested on a 'lewd conduct' charge. He was wearing his stage makeup, which was greasepaint. Water won't remove it. It was the next morning before they gave him floor cleaner to remove his makeup.

The cops would have made Joker wash his face (or wash it for him) given just a bit more time. There's no absolute timeline, but I was under the impression Joker was only in custody a few hours.






.

 

[Grommers]

umm, why does it matter if joker thought batman was dent..

it was maroni that captured dent/dawes....just because the joker wanted dent too (if that was the case). doesn't mean maroni didnt tell the joker he wanted dent, and joker just say something "well, i want him first."

 

[Motown Marvel]

umm, why does it matter if joker thought batman was dent..

it was maroni that captured dent/dawes....just because the joker wanted dent too (if that was the case). doesn't mean maroni didnt tell the joker he wanted dent, and joker just say something "well, i want him first."

if joker wasnt responsible for their kidnapping, he was at least very involved, considering he knew their exact locations. and given jokers prediliction for making things go BOOM, and the fact that dent and dawes were surrounded by explosive chemicals, leads me to believe that the joker was in fact responsible for them.

 

[bobguy64]

but this magic machine that can turn cell phone signals into live 3-d sonar that can produce a detailed map of an entire city is just sheer nonsense.

To be fair, it was only the room the phone was in.

All of them collectively was much of the city.

:P

They flying cape has always miffed me. Never liked it.







.

 

[jackjack924]

this bugs me- why didn't they force joker to wash his face off? I know it was a heightened state of emergency but he was in the cell for awhile- plenty of time. considering there was no other way to ID him, why not clean his face and take a photo? or maybe they did, and that's why the makeup was partially removed and smeared- meaning that it doesn't fully come off?

I'm pretty sure they just threw him in there. Also Gordon ordered everyone to "treat him like glass." They didn't want anything to be considered a form of police brutality. And I'm sure it's not just regular face paint that with a splash of water it comes off.

 

[Arc]

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/miscellaneous/news/2008/07/bat_gadgets

 

[nathaniel]

Smal plot holes in superhero movies are always going to happen as long as they are not TOO big they are harmless to the overall enjoyment of a movie imo.

 

[Motown Marvel]

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/miscellaneous/news/2008/07/bat_gadgets

yes, 3-d sonar is indeed possible, no one never said it wasnt. but the idea that theres a machine that collects and interprets simple cell phone signals into live 3-d sonar imaging of an entire city is ridiculous.

 

[Arc]

Athough it is just a piece of science fiction, I'm not arguing with you, but it is probable and not impossible. I fopund this which is interesting
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2008/06/the-clowd.html

 

[Mikelus]

^^ Ok, we got it, is "so ridiculous", no need to repeat the same crap over and over and..... Speaking of ridiculous, is just a movie based on a comic book character, which is unrealistic to begin with.

 

[Motown Marvel]

^^ Ok, we got it, is "so ridiculous", no need to repeat the same crap over and over and..... Speaking of ridiculous, is just a movie based on a comic book character, which is unrealistic to begin with.

then people need to quit repeating that theres no plot holes. if you cant explain something thats as integral to the plot as the sonar was, then its a plot hole. if you guys are okay with that plot hole, fine thats your choice, cool. but its a plot hole none the less.