The Official Superman Score & Soundtrack Thread - Part 1

[moviedoors]

That's the problem. This droning sound design appproach to film scoring can be heard in most of Zimmer's & other MV/RC composer's action scores. As well as other film composers that are forced to mimic that sound into their scores. You hear that kind of sound in most action movies today. Superman doesnt need to sound something I've heard in a ton of other films . If MOS goes that route with the score it would just be interchangeble with BB, TDK, IM, Inception, X-M:FC, Pirates, Transformers, and a ton of other MV/RC driven action scores. The last thing the score needs.

Oh and that Joker motif that Zimmer came up with was nothing special to my ears. A one note motif ? What happened to strong and menacing villain themes ? At least Ottman wrote a darker and more menacing Luthor theme than Williams' own for his SR score. That's also more than two notes. An actual theme.

If Nolan and Snyder go with the approach you want. Then the MOS score will be just like every other score in the genre (action and CBM) and not something that screams Superman. BTW, I'm not talking about Williams' approach.

So if they use electronics and sound design in the score, it's sure to sound just like everything else. No matter what. That's what you're saying to me. If I just wanted it to sound like everything else, that's what I would've said. I can do without the smug "you wanting some synths means you want this, and this is obviously bad" attitude.

This is an attitude I grow tired of in the film score community. I'm hugely passionate about film scores, but I'm really turned off by this traditionalist mentality I see everywhere where every score has to be orchestral and melodic in a particular way or its crap. It's frustrating as a fan that a sweeping ARP 2600 is somehow inherently inferior to a blast of brass.

And I'll take the Joker's theme over Ottman's Luther theme. I've seen Superman Returns several times now, the last time just a couple of months ago, and I own the score, but I still couldn't hum you Luthor's theme. Didn't stick at all. I don't care that there's a traditional melody, it obviously didn't do anything for me. I'll take the minimalist simplicity of chirping analogue synths and a wincing cello, thank you very much.

 

[Rust]

Once again I'd like to point out that James Bond movies get new scores and a new theme for every movie, (and Casino Royale was absolutely a reboot) but certain musical themes/motifs, such as the Monty Norman theme are retained. 90% of MOS's music could be new, and the JW theme could strike up for shirt rips etc and then quickly evolve into a newer theme. I think it's more likely that they'll go for a 100% new score, and that's okay by me. If however they decide to keep certain elements of JW's Superman march I'm on board with that approach also.

Wont happen and you know it. That would be a half-assed approach.

 

[El Payaso]

Once again I'd like to point out that James Bond movies get new scores and a new theme for every movie, (and Casino Royale was absolutely a reboot) but certain musical themes/motifs, such as the Monty Norman theme are retained. 90% of MOS's music could be new, and the JW theme could strike up for shirt rips etc and then quickly evolve into a newer theme. I think it's more likely that they'll go for a 100% new score, and that's okay by me. If however they decide to keep certain elements of JW's Superman march I'm on board with that approach also.

I'd like to keep this a little bit less messy than the Bond franchise.

 

[Elevator Man]

So if they use electronics and sound design in the score, it's sure to sound just like everything else. No matter what. That's what you're saying to me. If I just wanted it to sound like everything else, that's what I would've said. I can do without the smug "you wanting some synths means you want this, and this is obviously bad" attitude.

This is an attitude I grow tired of in the film score community. I'm hugely passionate about film scores, but I'm really turned off by this traditionalist mentality I see everywhere where every score has to be orchestral and melodic in a particular way or its crap. It's frustrating as a fan that a sweeping ARP 2600 is somehow inherently inferior to a blast of brass.

And I'll take the Joker's theme over Ottman's Luther theme. I've seen Superman Returns several times now, the last time just a couple of months ago, and I own the score, but I still couldn't hum you Luthor's theme. Didn't stick at all. I don't care that there's a traditional melody, it obviously didn't do anything for me. I'll take the minimalist simplicity of chirping analogue synths and a wincing cello, thank you very much.

First, I don't have a problem with synth scores at all. I own quite a few synth heavy scores. I just don't think Superman needs a synth driven score. Second, the synth/orchestral scores that follows the MV/RC techniques are really the ones that bother me. Sure some films that approach may work but not every action/sci-fi/comic book film needs an MV/RC score. TPTB want that kind of score for almost every blockbuster. Future film composers and veteran composers are forced to follow that style when hired to score a big budget popcorn movie. Action scores these days sound the same with hardly any originality or creativity b/c of this. So if you have a problem with me wanting a Superman score to have it's own identity and not sound like something I've heard in BB, TDK, Transformers, IM, GL, every freakin' Michael Bay & Jerry Bruckheimer movie and many, many more. Then tough.

Oh and Ottman's Luthor theme didn't stick out to you ? It sticks out like a sore thumb. No offense but you really need to get your ears checked up if you couldn't pick up on the theme. Especially if you own the score and seen the film several times. It's clear as daylight in the film and score. It's played several times in the film. I shouldn't be surprised though since one note themes are more easy to remember for you. The Joker motif wasn't anything special to my ears. I shudder to think what Zimmer will come up with for Bane and Catwoman.

 

[moviedoors]

First, I don't have a problem with synth scores at all. I own quite a few synth heavy scores. I just don't think Superman needs a synth driven score. Second, the synth/orchestral scores that follows the MV/RC techniques are really the ones that bother me. Sure some films that approach may work but not every action/sci-fi/comic book film needs an MV/RC score. TPTB want that kind of score for almost every blockbuster. Future film composers and veteran composers are forced to follow that style when hired to score a big budget popcorn movie. Action scores these days sound the same with hardly any originality or creativity b/c of this. So if you have a problem with me wanting a Superman score to have it's own identity and not sound like something I've heard in BB, TDK, Transformers, IM, GL, every freakin' Michael Bay & Jerry Bruckheimer movie and many, many more. Then tough.

Oh and Ottman's Luthor theme didn't stick out to you ? It sticks out like a sore thumb. No offense but you really need to get your ears checked up if you couldn't pick up on the theme. Especially if you own the score and seen the film several times. It's clear as daylight in the film and score. It's played several times in the film. I shouldn't be surprised though since one note themes are more easy to remember for you. The Joker motif wasn't anything special to my ears. I shudder to think what Zimmer will come up with for Bane and Catwoman.

I have a slight but noticeable high end hearing loss in my right ear. Probably somewhere around 10K. I got it from a bad case of swimmer's ear I developed in the last month of being sixteen. Schillterbahn, TX. Great water park, horrible infection. I had blood and puss oozing out of my ear. It really scared the hell out of me. I got out of it okay, just a little loss in that ear, I still have a great ear for mixing and pitch. See, years after getting a literally dripping case of swimmer's ear, I became an audio engineering major. How do you record music? Place a mic? Judge the presence of the low end? In addition, I was required to take traditional music classes. Classes that focused on theory, modes, scales, rhythms. The most useful, long term, was ear training and sight singing. Meaning, on the exams, it went: "here's a melody I'm playing on the piano. Write it down in traditional staff notation. I'll play it twice. Good luck." and, " Here's a sheet of paper with some dots and lines on it. Sing it to me. I know you've never seen it before, but, nail the pitches and timings. You have two chances."

I know my limitations and I've developed even more strengths. I can proudly say I have a great ear for mixing and pitch. In the years since attending these classes, and getting my degree, I've worked for countless hours in Apple Logic, writing, mixing, recording, over and over again. The itunes folder titled "Me" has about 16 hours of music in it. Music has been ingrained in my bones. Chord progressions, the influence of melody, dynamics, tone, HPF's, LPF's, cutoffs. It's all I think about. I get off work, I fire up my computer, and I start writing and engineering music. When not working my day job, I'm trying to juggle how to score an ambitious art film and an 80's throwback horror flick, trying to figure out how to get to work on a film shooting in Smithville (Tree of Life) as the production sound guy, or working on band arrangements for some of my songs. You could say if it comes out of a speaker, my life revolves around it in some way.

So yeah, my ears are thoroughly and completely checked. My life revolves around them.

And yet, Luther's theme was unmemorable. I've listened to the score, watched the movie multiple times, and yet it doesn't stick. Is it just me and my pathetically underdeveloped ear and my spit-ball worthy taste, deserving of scorn and a witch burning, or is it just because it wasn't all that great, and, more importantly, it's not that big a deal if someone likes the sound of Minimoogs and Sequential Circuits synthesizers?

Thanks for all the half assed, thinly cloaked insults and assumptions. And thanks for being the poster child for confrontational, argumentative, fanboy, internet JERKS.

Good day, say I.

 

[donalddonaldson]

I have a slight but noticeable high end hearing loss in my right ear. Probably somewhere around 10K. I got it from a bad case of swimmer's ear I developed in the last month of being sixteen. Schillterbahn, TX. Great water park, horrible infection. I had blood and puss oozing out of my ear. It really scared the hell out of me. I got out of it okay, just a little loss in that ear, I still have a great ear for mixing and pitch. See, years after getting a literally dripping case of swimmer's ear, I became an audio engineering major. How do you record music? Place a mic? Judge the presence of the low end? In addition, I was required to take traditional music classes. Classes that focused on theory, modes, scales, rhythms. The most useful, long term, was ear training and sight singing. Meaning, on the exams, it went: "here's a melody I'm playing on the piano. Write it down in traditional staff notation. I'll play it twice. Good luck." and, " Here's a sheet of paper with some dots and lines on it. Sing it to me. I know you've never seen it before, but, nail the pitches and timings. You have two chances."

I know my limitations and I've developed even more strengths. I can proudly say I have a great ear for mixing and pitch. In the years since attending these classes, and getting my degree, I've worked for countless hours in Apple Logic, writing, mixing, recording, over and over again. The itunes folder titled "Me" has about 16 hours of music in it. Music has been ingrained in my bones. Chord progressions, the influence of melody, dynamics, tone, HPF's, LPF's, cutoffs. It's all I think about. I get off work, I fire up my computer, and I start writing and engineering music. When not working my day job, I'm trying to juggle how to score an ambitious art film and an 80's throwback horror flick, trying to figure out how to get to work on a film shooting in Smithville (Tree of Life) as the production sound guy, or working on band arrangements for some of my songs. You could say if it comes out of a speaker, my life revolves around it in some way.

So yeah, my ears are thoroughly and completely checked. My life revolves around them.

And yet, Luther's theme was unmemorable. I've listened to the score, watched the movie multiple times, and yet it doesn't stick. Is it just me and my pathetically underdeveloped ear and my spit-ball worthy taste, deserving of scorn and a witch burning, or is it just because it wasn't all that great, and, more importantly, it's not that big a deal if someone likes the sound of Minimoogs and Sequential Circuits synthesizers?

Thanks for all the half assed, thinly cloaked insults and assumptions. And thanks for being the poster child for confrontational, argumentative, fanboy, internet JERKS.

Good day, say I.

listen here mate,

if i want a synth score, i'll go and listen to proper specialists like Vangelis or John Carpenter or someone, not the MV crew whose half assed approach consists of 3 notes and some whiny electric guitar in the back.

most MV scores are crap. The earlier ones like Mancina's Bad Boys were acceptable because they had at least had memorable themes, not like the generic junk we get nowadays.

If a movie is going to have proper themes, stick with professionals who can create themes, not MV clones who have to be personally babysitted by Hans Zimmer to try and emulate his work.

 

[moviedoors]

listen here mate,

if i want a synth score, i'll go and listen to proper specialists like Vangelis or John Carpenter or someone, not the MV crew whose half assed approach consists of 3 notes and some whiny electric guitar in the back.

most MV scores are crap. The earlier ones like Mancina's Bad Boys were acceptable because they had at least had memorable themes, not like the generic junk we get nowadays.

If a movie is going to have proper themes, stick with professionals who can create themes, not MV clones who have to be personally babysitted by Hans Zimmer to try and emulate his work.

MV? Sorry, it's late. Who?

As for the rest of you're post, if that's your attitude, goodbye. I'm tired of having to "apologize" for my tastes to pretentious, stuck up, internet *******s. If you don't like something, fine. But can we not have a discussion that resorts to pathetic, childish insults over something as minor as freakin' synthesizers? Great, you have a different opinion. Imagine that. Why does that mean I'm now a moron with horrendous, vomitous taste in music?

Mods, is this really the level of discourse you want here? It's confounding that this level of vitriol gets spewed over something as meaningless as a goofy Superman movie and whether there's some synths in the score. It's more than confounding, it's sad. I want to talk about these things. Weigh the pros and cons. Have what's known as a "discussion". Instead, every time I'm most honest here, I get an ear full of feces. Way not be that character on The Simpsons.

 

[Lily Adler]

Okay, I know I'm going to get some serious flack for this suggestion, but here it goes. How about Daft Punk?

I know, I know, I'll show myself out.

 

[Elevator Man]

I have a slight but noticeable high end hearing loss in my right ear. Probably somewhere around 10K. I got it from a bad case of swimmer's ear I developed in the last month of being sixteen. Schillterbahn, TX. Great water park, horrible infection. I had blood and puss oozing out of my ear. It really scared the hell out of me. I got out of it okay, just a little loss in that ear, I still have a great ear for mixing and pitch. See, years after getting a literally dripping case of swimmer's ear, I became an audio engineering major. How do you record music? Place a mic? Judge the presence of the low end? In addition, I was required to take traditional music classes. Classes that focused on theory, modes, scales, rhythms. The most useful, long term, was ear training and sight singing. Meaning, on the exams, it went: "here's a melody I'm playing on the piano. Write it down in traditional staff notation. I'll play it twice. Good luck." and, " Here's a sheet of paper with some dots and lines on it. Sing it to me. I know you've never seen it before, but, nail the pitches and timings. You have two chances."

I know my limitations and I've developed even more strengths. I can proudly say I have a great ear for mixing and pitch. In the years since attending these classes, and getting my degree, I've worked for countless hours in Apple Logic, writing, mixing, recording, over and over again. The itunes folder titled "Me" has about 16 hours of music in it. Music has been ingrained in my bones. Chord progressions, the influence of melody, dynamics, tone, HPF's, LPF's, cutoffs. It's all I think about. I get off work, I fire up my computer, and I start writing and engineering music. When not working my day job, I'm trying to juggle how to score an ambitious art film and an 80's throwback horror flick, trying to figure out how to get to work on a film shooting in Smithville (Tree of Life) as the production sound guy, or working on band arrangements for some of my songs. You could say if it comes out of a speaker, my life revolves around it in some way.

So yeah, my ears are thoroughly and completely checked. My life revolves around them.

I apologize about the ear comment. Although I meant no offense by what I said. I wish you the best with your film music career. You seem to have a real talent for it. And really know your stuff. Very impressive.

And yet, Luther's theme was unmemorable. I've listened to the score, watched the movie multiple times, and yet it doesn't stick. Is it just me and my pathetically underdeveloped ear and my spit-ball worthy taste, deserving of scorn and a witch burning, or is it just because it wasn't all that great, and, more importantly, it's not that big a deal if someone likes the sound of Minimoogs and Sequential Circuits synthesizers?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Or however that goes. I have nothing against you liking synth/electronic scores. Besides you seem to have an interest in synthesisers and sound design, which is cool. I can see why you'd be defensive of synth scores. Like I said before I have a few synth driven scores on cd myself. And have no problem with them. They serve their purpose in some films. I'm just tired of the Zimmer/MV/RC synth scores that I hear in most action movies these days. And don't think MOS should take that approach in scoring. That's all.

Thanks for all the half assed, thinly cloaked insults and assumptions. And thanks for being the poster child for confrontational, argumentative, fanboy, internet JERKS.

I'm sorry to come off as a jerk. I just get tired of people mentioning Zimmer and MV/RC composers when they're practically scoring every action movie now and days. Sure it's their opinion but, there are plenty of other film composers out there who are just as capable, imo. I would also like MOS to have it's own voice and not mimic somebody elses. A score that seperates it from other movies/comic book movies. Something I believe BB/TDK failed to do, imho.

Good day, say I.

Take care.

 

[Lily Adler]

Okay now I feel bad. I could not for the life of me remember how the Williams theme went, so I listened to it a couple of times on YouTube. Every time I try to recite it I forget it. Just so frustrating. I guess it helps that most of you guys grew up with it.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Okay now I feel bad. I could not for the life of me remember how the Williams theme went, so I listened to it a couple of times on YouTube. Every time I try to recite it I forget it. Just so frustrating. I guess it helps that most of you guys grew up with it.

Good god.

 

[Lily Adler]

Okay then... I guess I should elaborate as to why I can't remember the theme. I'm able to recite part of it to a certain point and eventually start humming the Indiana Jones theme. I know I'm weird. Sorry for posting this. t:

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Okay then... I guess I should elaborate as to why I can't remember the theme. I'm able to recite part of it to a certain point and eventually start humming the Indiana Jones theme. I know I'm weird. Sorry for posting this. t:

Starwars superman and Indiana jones use the same core notes. Lol not weird at all. And for the record daft punks tron score was awesome. I loved it.

 

[Lily Adler]

Starwars superman and Indiana jones use the same core notes. Lol not weird at all. And for the record daft punks tron score was awesome. I loved it.

Thanks. I just thought of Daft Punk because I loved the Tron score, too.t:

 

[Stephen K. Hone]

Wont happen and you know it. That would be a half-assed approach.

No, actually it would be a 90%-assed approach.

 

[Wheels]

No, actually it would be a 90%-assed approach.

I'd rather they go for the full-assed approach, because 90% ass is not enough.

 

[ross2287]

I'd rather they go for the full-assed approach, because 90% ass is not enough.

Best. Post. Ever.

 

[Wheels]

Best. Post. Ever.

Thanks. I'm guessing by your location that you're a fellow Steelers fan?

 

[Stephen K. Hone]

Best. Post. Ever.

It was a team effort, I set him up for for the touchdown!

 

[Lily Adler]

Okay it appears many people just want to use the Williams score or theme. I actually like the theme, I can remember and recite it now, but I don't know if I want it for THIS film. It's not like they kept the Danny Elfman theme for Batman Begins.

I would be okay with Hans Zimmer, but I don't particularly care for him. But I really would like someone different.

 

[Elayis]

Superman is not James Bond.

Aside from the obvious differences, the music is also quite different. Bond has gone through many different composers, each bringing their own unique style to the character as he has morphed from the Connery to Lazenby to Moore to Dalton to Brosnan to Craig personas (that was a mouthful).

Superman, on the other hand, while having four composers in five films, has generally stayed very close to the original themes laid out by John Williams over 30 years ago.

Williams' Superman theme dictates a certain atmosphere, and it certainly appears that "Man of Steel" is not such an atmosphere. And as much as I am loathe to compare this film to "Batman Begins", the similarities certainly do fit.

Both Donner's Superman and Burton's Batman offered very romanticized and comical (in a good way) interpretations of the characters, which suited the themes and styles of Williams' and Elfman's scores. However, no matter how good they were, they would not fit Nolan's tortured and saturnine Batman, nor Snyder's more realistic and less campy Superman (one can only assume the latter).

As such, I think it would be a far better move to simply start anew with the score, instead of retreading old grown, even if what came before was genius (and no, I am not a hater of Superman or Williams; in fact, I think his theme for Superman just might be my favorite in all of film).

A new score do just as well as the classic (Zimmer proved that with Begins, though YMMV). It can be done. We just need to hold our horses before we hang, draw and quarter whatever is to come. The film doesn't even have a composer yet.

 

[superman2090]

What about using themes from "The Adventures of Superman"? I'm not saying to use that exact score but it might be interesting to use some of the musical theme of that piece. It could be retro cool.

 

[Elayis]

Are you talking about the Reeves show or the cartoon? Either way, with this film establishing its own identity, I really don't see them reusing music from shows that are over 50 years old.

This is new and modern, not retro.

 

[X Knight]

when do you think we will learn who the composer is?

 

[Rust]

This is new and modern, not retro.

Well, the suit does have retro-elements to it.

The score will probably be very modern sounding yes, but I can definitely see the composer being somewhat inspired by the heroic themes of yesterday.
Bates' Watchmen-score had a very retro sound to it at times reminding me of Vangelis' Blade Runner.

I doubt the score for MOS will be as experimantal as that though and that we'll get a more traditional symphonic score but with substantial electronic elements.

And I dont think we'll know who the composer is before summer 2012.