The Official Superman Thread - Part 3

[Anubis]

Punch it in the face.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

 

[Wheels]

It's a logical answer. What could Superman do to magically solve poverty?

What can Batman do to magically stop crime outright? What can Superman do to stop villains from trying to destroy earth over and over again?

I guess they should just give up.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Batman tends to do more as Bruce Wayne to address social issues in Gotham. You know, with his billions and billions of dollars. Batman, like all superheroes, tends to address social issues by punching criminals in the face. Superman stops villains from trying to destroy Earth by punching them in the face, too. Do you see a pattern developing here? It's the pattern of attempting to graft real-world issues onto male power fantasies. It doesn't usually work. It usually comes across like AC is coming across now.

 

[Wheels]

But your saying Superman can't solve poverty, so he should stay out of social issues. Guess what? There is no way Batman can end crime, and no matter what Superman will always have to deal with villains trying to destroy earth.

Superman doesn't have to solve poverty.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Fair enough. I just don't see what Superman could do in any practical way to help with poverty, nor do I see why he should be taking on that issue. He's a guy who can shoot lasers out of his eyes and pummel concrete into rubble. Wouldn't you want him to focus on punching out the alien invaders who show up every five minutes instead of trying to find people jobs or get them food or whatever? It's a question of priorities to me.

 

[Wheels]

Fair enough. I just don't see what Superman could do in any practical way to help with poverty, nor do I see why he should be taking on that issue. He's a guy who can shoot lasers out of his eyes and pummel concrete into rubble. Wouldn't you want him to focus on punching out the alien invaders who show up every five minutes instead of trying to find people jobs or get them food or whatever? It's a question of priorities to me.

Why not have both?

 

[Hiddensymbols]

I don't know, maybe it's because my idea of Superman was largely built on Morrison, Waid, and Kelly's JLA and Kelly's other Superman comics, but I've never, ever perceived Supes as weak or ineffectual. He "kept everyone in line" just fine during those JLA runs, mainly because the idea that any leader would have to keep anyone in line was ridiculous, since that League was built on mutual respect between the Big 7. He stands for the best in all of us and if he seems weaker than he was, it was only because he believed in restraint and reason over throwing his weight around like the bully Morrison's early Action Comics version clearly is. If anything, it's the Action Comics version that seems incredibly naive to me, primarily because of exactly what we see in this week's issue. It's not really feasible to solve the complex problems this early Superman is concerned with by throwing punches or dangling people off of rooftops.

This, I miss the superman who didn't have to show how strong he was on a regular basis, but he was the guy who you knew when it came down to it could move worlds to save the day. Superman is one of my favorites not because of the powers, the notoriety, or the nostalgia, he is my favorite because when he shows up it will all be ok, he is inspiring and humble. I miss that supes.

 

[Wheels]

My issue is some people acting like Superman must abide by human law at all times no matter what the situation.

 

[fifthfiend]

That presupposes an either/or situation. There are many avenues to effect social change besides doing nothing and bullying random businessmen (which, I agree, are both ineffective).

Fight aliens and cosmic gods. Social injustice is not a problem powers help against in any way, so I'd leave 'em to the charities and such.

Claiming it's not an either/or situation and then straight up saying he should do nothing is objectively a load of total ****.

 

[fifthfiend]

Fair enough. I just don't see what Superman could do in any practical way to help with poverty, nor do I see why he should be taking on that issue. He's a guy who can shoot lasers out of his eyes and pummel concrete into rubble. Wouldn't you want him to focus on punching out the alien invaders who show up every five minutes instead of trying to find people jobs or get them food or whatever? It's a question of priorities to me.

In addition to **** this is also nonsense since we all obviously know that alien invaders will show up exactly as often as writers decide to have alien invaders show up instead of having him deal with social problems, ergo he has as much time to deal with social problems as any particular writer will allow him to have.

 

[fifthfiend]

Fair enough. I just don't see what Superman could do in any practical way to help with poverty, nor do I see why he should be taking on that issue. He's a guy who can shoot lasers out of his eyes and pummel concrete into rubble. Wouldn't you want him to focus on punching out the alien invaders who show up every five minutes instead of trying to find people jobs or get them food or whatever? It's a question of priorities to me.

No because dealing with the threat of external invasion is obviously what we have government for.

Conversely we demonstrably have zero effective means of dealing with the government, which is why that's exactly what Superman should be for.

 

[Mystirious]

I like the idea of Superman tackling social issues and injustices as well as supervillainscand cosmic threats but he definitely needs to think how he's going to through more as he is starting to learn in this issue

 

[Wheels]

While I agree that Superman has to learn to think things through, he doesn't have to kiss sleezy cops' butt. So the whole idea he must play nice with guys who are not protecting the city and are looking the other way, is bogus imo.

I guess Superman must be a government butt kisser even when they're wrong though.

 

[Number 6]

I thought what TheCorpulent1 is getting out is that the idea of superheroes saving poverty is one of those suspension of beliefs of the genre that you have to make. Obviously Superman could probably solve all of these poverty problems like nothing, Reed Richards could cure cancer in a day, and so on. We can't have them do that though, because it disconnects their world from ours. They're world isn't realistic in that sense, but it's always going to be an imperfect image of our own. Honestly, if that kind of stuff is something you can't cope with, it might be better to look in other genres.

And really, do we need Superman to do these things? I can see a story here and there, or occasions when he's helping non-big threats, but him tackling social justice would probably just come off like JMS' horrid Grounded stories, that will just come off as self-parodying and dumb. I think Morrison's idea of Superman taking on the big stuff and Clark Kent working on the social level is a much better idea, frankly.

 

[Wheels]

Yes, but you can't fault Superman for getting involved in the situations he has in ACTION. I guess Superman was just being a big meanie to little ol' government system though.

 

[Number 6]

I haven't read AC 3, yet, so I guess I don't know what you mean. I was just following the conversation about Superman not doing enough social issues or whatever.

 

[Wheels]

I haven't read AC 3, yet, so I guess I don't know what you mean. I was just following the conversation about Superman not doing enough social issues or whatever.

I mean people getting upset about Superman being rough with crooked businessmen and cops. It was lawfully wrong not morally wrong. So I don't buy the idea that Superman deserves what is coming to him.

Laws can be manipulated by evil people.

 

[Anubis]

It simply can't be done that way. Not without becoming something worse than what you're trying to fight. Tossing around corrupt businessmen, dirty cops, and politicians isn't gonna do a damn thing but turn the public against you. Why? Because you're f**king with people that control public opinion.

I'm not saying he shouldn't deal with social issues, but there are better ways. And hell, in some ways, there's nothing he can do. (Not without becoming a super powered dictator.) Well, nothing his powers can do anyway. Like Poverty for example. Ice breath will not solve such problems. (wiping out world governments and setting up his own fair and balanced socialist state however could.) But as Clark Kent he can totally make a difference. (Without taking away peoples free will.) I think that that is the ultimate realization he'll have to make.


I mean, keep going down that path, at best you'll turn into this guy:

And at worst:

 

[Wheels]

That's all true but people are acting like what Superman has done in in ACTION COMICS is blasphemous. He's a headstrong young guy with high ideals, so he's going to go a little overboard at times.
What he did to that businessmen may have been ill advised, but what he said to those cops was not wrong at all.

 

[Mystirious]

I haven't got any problem with what he said to the cops but yep the way he dealt with Glenmorgan was really badly thought out by him. Tossing a corrupt businessman around isn't going to solve the problem of corruption

He needs to use his brain to deal with things like that not just his brawn

 

[Dangerman]

I haven't got any problem with what he said to the cops but yep the way he dealt with Glenmorgan was really badly thought out by him. Tossing a corrupt businessman around isn't going to solve the problem of corruption

He needs to use his brain to deal with things like that not just his brawn

But it gets the job done for Batman

 

[Anubis]

Works on muggers and kidnappers. Not so much on Billionaire *****e bags.

 

[Mystirious]

Indeed

Superman can use his powers to tackle immediate dangers by stopping crimes and saving the lives of people threatened by villains, natural disasters or persecution. But to change the world and deal with complex problems like poverty or corruption he cant just punch someone in the face and make things better. He needs to use his brain and tackle the problems in an intelligent way

I think he's starting to learn that. He's seen that for dbags like Glenmorgan violence solves nothing and hopefully he's going to use his head and find a better way to put a stop to the corruption in Metropolis

 

[fifthfiend]

But it gets the job done for Batman

People basically just like to pretend it's different because they hate the impoverished and worship the rich.