The Official Superman Thread

[Mystirious]

Why do I have the feeling that's going to end up in Superman XXX

I hope so

I have to see that

 

[Tron Bonne]

Then again though Birthright was suppose to be the start of DC Ultimate line so I guess I liked it more because it left the world more open to play with before DC merged it into the mainstream.

Hm, I don't believe that's correct. I think DC whated an Ultimate Superman in the sense that they wanted a new origin for people to jump on, but I don't think it was actually suppose to lead to any kind of Ultimate line, and was always meant as a revised origin to the mainstream character.

 

[Motown Marvel]

no, it was actually meant to be a separate ultimate-type continuity.

either way, i thought seret origins, despite a few flaws, was a really fun read, a great origin, and far better than birthright.

 

[Tron Bonne]

no, it was actually meant to be a separate ultimate-type continuity.

Did some quick searching, and it looks like you guys are right, though I'm not seeing anything about it intending to be a starting part to a separate line or something, like Ultimate Marvel was. If it was, glad it didn't happen regardless.

 

[Mystirious]

Agreed

A DC Ultimates line sounds like it would have been a bad idea

 

[Kurosawa]

Would have been a great idea instead of CoIE but that's decades too late so instead they just messed everything up by trying to reboot some series and maintain others. Which is stupid...because probably 99% of Pre-Crisis stories have been retconned out or changed significantly anyway. It would have been smarter just to have started new with everyone at the time because they've retconned everything out over the years. Like Silver Age Barry and Hal continuity. Regardless of whether you like those two or not, almost all of those stories don't work with the changes Johns made in their history. They've been effectively rebooted just like Superman was. DC doesn't even need to put on a pretense of keeping continuity...that was over years ago.

Can't say Alan Moore didn't warn them.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Hm, I don't believe that's correct. I think DC whated an Ultimate Superman in the sense that they wanted a new origin for people to jump on, but I don't think it was actually suppose to lead to any kind of Ultimate line, and was always meant as a revised origin to the mainstream character.

no, it was actually meant to be a separate ultimate-type continuity.

either way, i thought seret origins, despite a few flaws, was a really fun read, a great origin, and far better than birthright.

Did some quick searching, and it looks like you guys are right, though I'm not seeing anything about it intending to be a starting part to a separate line or something, like Ultimate Marvel was. If it was, glad it didn't happen regardless.

Yes Birthright was suppose to be the start of DC's version of their Ultimate universe. That's the reason why so many things were changed and left open. For example Lana disappearing after high school or the ending with Lex. For whatever reason though DC changed things half way through and made it the origin of Superman which lead to the bad reaction it got because it changed so much and confused many people. But this was suppose to be the start of the Ultimate and Batman was suppose to follow from there However the plan got changed because of the All-Star line and then changed again because of the new Earth-One series
.

Agreed

A DC Ultimates line sounds like it would have been a bad idea

I guess your going to hate the Earth-One series then.

 

[Mystirious]

I guess your going to hate the Earth-One series then.

I am sure the art will be great

Not sold on the story yet. Will give the book a look though

 

[hippie_hunter]

As long as the spirit stays the same, Ultimate and Earth One comics should be great. It's why Ultimate Spider-Man started off great because Bendis adhered to the spirit of what makes Spider-Man great while providing a fresh and interesting take (crappy Ultimate Green Goblin aside). The rest of the Ultimate Universe, the Ultimates in particular, failed in that aspect.

I'm wary on Batman: Earth One because even though I love Johns' writing, I'm not at all fond of his take on Batman. He's too much of a dick who gets jobbed by Wally West and Hal Jordan and tells Superman that the last time he was inspiring was when he was dead.

Superman: Earth One on the other hand, should be a fantastic read. JMS is a massive Superman fan at heart and his take on Superman shows that he at least understands the character.

 

[Mystirious]

I'm wary on Batman: Earth One because even though I love Johns' writing, I'm not at all fond of his take on Batman. He's too much of a dick who gets jobbed by Wally West and Hal Jordan and tells Superman that the last time he was inspiring was when he was dead.

Agreed

He makes Batman far too much of a dick

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

As long as the spirit stays the same, Ultimate and Earth One comics should be great. It's why Ultimate Spider-Man started off great because Bendis adhered to the spirit of what makes Spider-Man great while providing a fresh and interesting take (crappy Ultimate Green Goblin aside). The rest of the Ultimate Universe, the Ultimates in particular, failed in that aspect.

I'm wary on Batman: Earth One because even though I love Johns' writing, I'm not at all fond of his take on Batman. He's too much of a dick who gets jobbed by Wally West and Hal Jordan and tells Superman that the last time he was inspiring was when he was dead.

Superman: Earth One on the other hand, should be a fantastic read. JMS is a massive Superman fan at heart and his take on Superman shows that he at least understands the character.

I don't get the hate for the Ultimates. I think Ultimate Captain America is spot on with how a man frozen in 1945 should act. I also love what they did with Iron Man and Thor. Although I can't say I am happy they kill Daredevil and most of the X-Men off (although the first Ult. X-Men arc was good too). I was also surprised by the fact that I like Ultimate Kitty Pride and Spider-Man together then him with Mary Jane or Gwen I wish it lasted longer then 6 months to a year.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

But what do you expect from Johns. I mean he is the one who is making Hal Jordan and Barry Allen the new Superman and Batman of the DCU and pushing them to side somewhat.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Maybe spot on for a regular man frozen in 1945, not Captain America. And hippy Thor was stupid.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Maybe spot on for a regular man frozen in 1945, not Captain America. And hippy Thor was stupid.

How should Captain America act? I mean even still look at how America acted and was during that time he acts perfectly like an American from 1945. Hippie Thor is okay with me in Ultimates 2 Hippe Thor was gone.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I don't hate the idea of the Ultimate line and Earth One books, but overall, feel they're unnecessary, mostly just a cheap marketing ploy at the end of the day, and the non-marketing concept behind them is heavily flawed. Overall, what DC did with the All-Star imprint is a much better idea, and I wish they'd stuck with that instead of trying to copy Marvel's Ultimate line five years too late.

Though, to be honest, despite my feelings I was never huge on the Ultimate books. People seemed to love Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man, but I only thought it was okay. Millar's Ultimates was decent, but nothing as Earth-shattering as people make it out to be. Ultimates 2 was okay, but a lot of the subtext was stupid and lazy. The characterizations were okay, I guess, as kind of over exaggerated parodies of 616 characters or something.

Can't say Alan Moore didn't warn them.

What do you mean? Did Moore speak out against the idea or something?

 

[Mystirious]

Though, to be honest, despite my feelings I was never huge on the Ultimate books. People seemed to love Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man, but I only thought it was okay. Millar's Ultimates was decent, but nothing as Earth-shattering as people make it out to be. Ultimates 2 was okay, but a lot of the subtext was stupid and lazy. The characterizations were okay, I guess, as kind of over exaggerated parodies of 616 characters or something.

Ultimate Spiderman is certainly the best of the bunch

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't get the hate for the Ultimates. I think Ultimate Captain America is spot on with how a man frozen in 1945 should act. I also love what they did with Iron Man and Thor. Although I can't say I am happy they kill Daredevil and most of the X-Men off (although the first Ult. X-Men arc was good too). I was also surprised by the fact that I like Ultimate Kitty Pride and Spider-Man together then him with Mary Jane or Gwen I wish it lasted longer then 6 months to a year.

As hippie said, they're not true to the spirit of the 616 characters. It's fine as its own thing, but it really, really bugs me when people start cribbing material from the Ultimate universe and bringing it into the 616 universe or combining them for the movies or cartoons or whatever. If you like the Ultimate comics, great. I don't, hence I don't want to see that s*** infect things that are supposed to be presenting the characters in a way that's true to their core concepts.

 

[TimBisley]

Well of course HH would hate "hippie" Thor. He really wasn't all that bad, in fact he was my one of my favorite parts of the first two Ultimates series. I'm definitely looking forward to Hickman's Ultimate Thor mini.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I didn't mind the hippie aspect--although it runs so far counter to Thor's warrior heritage it makes my head spin; I was more troubled by how utterly pathetic and unimpressive Thor came off. They hinted that he was a crazy dude whose powers all came from his gear (which I know they revealed to be untrue later, but I'm only talking about that first impression from The Ultimates) and he just generally came off as kind of a wuss. Also, an idiot who spouts his political opinions at every opportunity like a first-year college student.

Then again, the 616 Thor is my absolute favorite comic character of all time, so I'm pretty predisposed to not liking any variations, minor or otherwise, on him. They got him right the first time, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Mystirious]

Ultimate Thor is not that bad but I do not love him near as much as I love 616 Thor

 

[Anubis]

He got his ass kicked by Colossus. That alone makes him inferior.

 

[Kurosawa]

I don't hate the idea of the Ultimate line and Earth One books, but overall, feel they're unnecessary, mostly just a cheap marketing ploy at the end of the day, and the non-marketing concept behind them is heavily flawed. Overall, what DC did with the All-Star imprint is a much better idea, and I wish they'd stuck with that instead of trying to copy Marvel's Ultimate line five years too late.

Though, to be honest, despite my feelings I was never huge on the Ultimate books. People seemed to love Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man, but I only thought it was okay. Millar's Ultimates was decent, but nothing as Earth-shattering as people make it out to be. Ultimates 2 was okay, but a lot of the subtext was stupid and lazy. The characterizations were okay, I guess, as kind of over exaggerated parodies of 616 characters or something.



What do you mean? Did Moore speak out against the idea or something?

Yeah, when they were discussing how they were going to reboot Superman Moore told them that throwing out all the previous stories and continuity would alienate the fans of that material because it in essence told them that those stories were a waste of their time. That by throwing out the baby with the bathwater those supporters would be lost because the many many years of stories they invested themselves into were to be annulled. These comments were not made public at the time but have since been revealed.

 

[Spike_x1]

Maybe spot on for a regular man frozen in 1945, not Captain America.

Indeed.

The whole point of Cap's personality is that he's not just a regular everyday joe who just happened to get frozen for a few decades. For lack of a better term, Steve is better than the average soldier. Sure, he gets the job done and has all the crazy training and super solider-isms, but at the end of the day he's an idealistic good guy. That last part is what's special about him and makes him stand out, and it's also what Ultimate Cap lacks entirely. And that's really unfortunate, since that's the core of the character, which is what they should've focused on keeping unchanged in adapting him to the Ultimate universe. Sure, Ult. Steve has the skills and all that jazz, but he behaves like a thug, and I can't help but laugh whenever another Ultimate character makes a remark about how "inspirational" their Captain America is. I've never seen him do a single inspiring thing. Intimidating and threatening, on the other hand, are definitely more suiting adjectives for his character.

 

[Drz]

He's inspiring because of how great of a tactician he is. Not because of moral boyscout speeches.

 

[Spike_x1]

Lawl.