The Dark Knight The Official "The Dark Knight Is Overrated" Thread.

[Travesty]

Speaking of the silly boat scene, don't you think that scene alone kinda contradicts the ending in a way?

 

[The Joker]

No. Why should it?

And it's not a silly scene either. I never understood why some thought it was.

 

[shauner111]

Trav thinks everything is silly, and the silly stuff is great don't pay any mind.

And how does it contradict?

 

[BatLobster]

The line "Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded" says it all. It wasn't about not trusting people with the truth so much as it was about wanting to give the public a reason to keep hope, and logistically it was also about preventing all of Dent's prisoners from ending up back on the street.

I'm not sure where the contradiction would be, I'm only assuming Travesty was alluding to the ferry scene being an affirmation that people are inherently good while the coverup doesn't jibe with that?

 

[Steamteck]

Joker's little chat with him didn't mention that at all. Joker gave him a loaded gun and pointed it at his own head. Joker didn't even know he would decide his fate with a coin.

It would have been so satisfying on so many levels for me if Dent had just shot the Joker then.

 

[The Joker]

The line "Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded" says it all. It wasn't about not trusting people with the truth so much as it was about wanting to give the public a reason to keep hope, and logistically it was also about preventing all of Dent's prisoners from ending up back on the street.

I'm not sure where the contradiction would be, I'm only assuming Travesty was alluding to the ferry scene being an affirmation that people are inherently good while the coverup doesn't jibe with that?

It would have been so satisfying on so many levels for me if Dent had just shot the Joker then.

I'm so glad you never got that satisfaction t:

 

[Steamteck]

I'm so glad you never got that satisfaction t:

Fair enough. So many folks enjoyed this film , I'm actually glad I didn't either.

 

[WingedAvenger89]

It's because Goyer and Nolan intended on Gotham being a regular looking city all along. I think Goyer said that if they had their way, Gotham would have looked like TDK's for Begins. But as a story, i always see it as they're moving into the downtown parts of Gotham. Where it looks different. It's also been a year or so post-Begins and they've cleaned up the city a little bit.

Well yea, I agree. Nolan's Gotham was a real American city. Not all of it was a slum, or Gothic, with shadows everywhere, claustrophobic architexture, and gargoyles staring down on the city. Not all cities are like that in real life. There are rich metropolitan areas where the oppressors go to spend their money.

Gotham has been depicted this way before too ... notably in Year One, and the Killing Joke.

BEGINS depicted the city as dirty, and corrupt. Almost as atmospheric as it is in the source material. TDK takes place just over a year later and it's beginning to be cleaned up. This shows an actual impact The Batman is making for a change.

The fragile nature of the even more real world feel and setting of TDK's Gotham compared to BEGINS gives the meaning or rise of the Joker all the more frightening as an idea. He's there to tear normal society down to it's knees, and make it crazy like himself.

Rises is a slightly futuristic look at Gotham, that's been cleaned up for years. So the way Gotham looked isn't unfaithful, it fit the themes and story purpose. Batman is meant to clean up Gotham, the living embodiment of his father / family's legacy. If it never got cleaned up, Batman's impact was absolutely zero.

I think Bale's performance is not bland. It's underrated. A subtle, quieter performance always gets overlooked. The nuances are all top notch with Bale in this one. Loud performances with more screen time does not always equal "better".

More agreed. Bale gave a very nuanced, subtle performance. And I LOL when people say TDK isn't about Batman. The entire film's theme revolve around the way a city has reacted to this crime fighting vigilante.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I think Bale's performance is not bland. It's underrated. A subtle, quieter performance always gets overlooked. The nuances are all top notch with Bale in this one. Loud performances with more screen time does not always equal "better".

Subtle=/=bland

In Bale's case his performance is bland, robotic and lifeless. Just because it isn't loud and over the top doens't make it subtle.

 

[The Joker]

I think Bale's performance is not bland. It's underrated. A subtle, quieter performance always gets overlooked. The nuances are all top notch with Bale in this one. Loud performances with more screen time does not always equal "better".

More agreed. Bale gave a very nuanced, subtle performance. And I LOL when people say TDK isn't about Batman. The entire film's theme revolve around the way a city has reacted to this crime fighting vigilante.

Hear hear

One of the best superhero performances ever. My two favorite scenes being the aftermath of Rachel's death when he's sitting their maskless in his penthouse with half his Batman costume strewn across the floor looking like a broken shell of a man. My other favorite is the confrontation at the end with Two Face. When Harvey is challenging Batman and Gordon as why he lost everything and they didn't, and Batman says quietly "It wasn't"....that pain in his face and eyes because he lost Rachel, too, and he can't share that with Dent.

It's a terrific performance from Bale. A real underrated gem.

 

[Sterling Archer]

This is a pretty interesting read from a critical point of view, and it basically sums up my feeings for the movie.

http://therawness.com/why-i-hated-the-dark-knight/

 

[The Joker]

I like the response one of the commenters made on this 7 year old article even better.

Part 1:

TSK, TSK…TSK.

why so serious!!.

i guess you never read the actual legendary alternative to the regular dC batman titles, the dark knight.

you show your ineptitude to the source material.
go read a comics, or two, namely the legendary contribution by frank miller. if the box office receipts are able to make hollywood scriptwriter stick rigidly to the source material. i think you won’t like many of the films, that darkknight will hold honest to the source material in adaptation.

your review and criticism shows you:

one, never read a frank miller contribution in your life.
two, it also shows you are one of the people that DC/WB tried to appease when they ran the original batman franchise into the mud with joel schumaker.

also,…..batman has no superpowers, i don’t think you understood that, or the idea that he is the next generation’s sherlock holmes.
now granted sherlock holmes was a coke, heroin, and opium user, if they were to put sherlock holmes into a film that was an adaptation, of the source material. i would want that tidbit, and wrinkle included.

from your review, i believe you on the other hand, want the sherlock holmes in the deerhunter hat, who is brilliantly sober. with no, background into how he became so intelligent. while also, handling the death of watson, and an even crazier moriarty. at least in the books, you knew holmes was high, and plausibly thinking outta the box, to apprehend and solve crime.

at least in batman, we know bruce is actually brilliant and uses luscius[morgan freeman's character], as a foil to illustrate his technical wizardry. the batman character never just went to order, parts without any source knowledge of what he was designing. you also, missed the part of the film where, bruce actually designed the plans, of the next batcostume, as well. which was the setup, and paid homage to all the previous bruce wayne characters as well. even, in batman’s haste to create the batcomputer, and use it. bruce shows his duality in that instance of the movie. plus, batman this point needed to be tackled because in the regular dc universe batman is always at the helm of the device. the movie picked into the morality of privacy that, in the regular DC universe batman always, violated consistently.

i mean seriously, you are the reason hollywood is so messed up, because you don’t really have an interest in this type of genre. yet, hollywood used to bend over backwards to appease this ignorant fan, for the sake of a dollar. well darkknight is finally the solidified effort that will make literary conversions to film standup and hold true to the literary source material. that drew large enough, in critical acclaim, and revenue, that warranted it become a movie franchise, in the first place.

you are the scourge of the earth that has devalued every subculture and genre in the entire world. from metal, punk, rocknroll, blues, and most importantly hiphop, and our cultural contribution music wise of rap.

you are the enemy, and your thinking is the sole reason, why subcultures are swallowed and bastardized.

Art Barr

go read the dark noir ABSTRACT source material, THE DARK KNIGHT. penned and penciled by the legend, FRANK MILLER. See, what his aim and scope was that helped to usher realism into comics, and make them evolve, and stand in the context of time. then go tackle, the rest of miller’s classics including the runs on sincity, and most importantly daredevil. get educated on what you are missing, because you are missing a lot.

also,…i have a review, of the dark knight. it gives the psychology, of the fan of this type of movie and what we wanted. plus, the reason why the source material shouldn’t be violated, compromised or amalgamated as well.

HEY JOE,

Art Barr, here…granted this is my first review here at the tomatoe….I have to say i usually don’t post anywhere else except for my message board home at:

FORUMS.SOHH.COM

Granted, that place is under reconstruction after a heinous hacking to the online hiphop community. I needed an outlet for my posting, review, rant editorial addiction. So here is my first entry into, the ROTTEN TOMATOE, and my first tomato review.

before we get started, I need to let you in on my style. it is brash, unadulterated stream of consciousness online rant masterful mastery. woven with scathing editorial, and personal opinions, chock full of pop references, which, I use as mechanical metaphors.

plus, the most important component; I only review material i have a vast knowledge on the subject and tone of. meaning you won’t catch me doin a review on material that isn’t great or moving. Plus, additionally, and most importantly, i won’t/don’t comment about anything genre wise. unless, i know some tidbit or fact, of the creators lineage or stylings. meaning, i know exactly what the phuck i am talking about, usually and typically. unless i note so, in the early stages of a review to set the tone.

if i tackle a subject i am unfamiliar with, I will note so, and also give the reasoning behind why i am tackling that review. which usually will be because i was so moved, by the artistry. or, just plain discusted by the lack of intelligent knowledge and omission of components which should have been included in the material. granted that is the reason why i am reviewing;

THE DARK KNIGHT

one, because as a former comics letterer and penciler, watching comics book movies is always a great confidence builder. I even went to comics school for two years and was taught by the penciler of SPEEDRACER, norm dwyer. Plus, writer, rapheal nieves. Who might i add was the first writer to supply a similar death, to the one that the joker gives the bodyguard goon in his run on hellstorm. except instead of his writing including a pencil, and a “trip and fall” sequence. raph’s included, a close to but not so similar death by a beverage straw. So, when i heard they were adapting the dark knight. i hoped to be getting, an incredible journey in watching the licensing of a comics book character come to life, on the big screen. most importantly watching the compromise live and in color on THE BIG SCREEN. i mention compromise, because in the comics book movie genre a lot of compromise is done. namely, on the characters and lineage presented in the comics to make the material a gateway for newbie and general fans. Plus, and most importantly as a homage tool to reel in credibility from the consistent drawing fan medium. so with that said, i present my review of:

THE DARK KNIGHT

 

[The Joker]

Part 2:

Initially, I will tell you:

I AM A MARVEL GUY, when it came to comics. my whole life has been spent pretty much championing anything marvel, and shunning anything DC, for most of my life. I have to also, say in my MARVEL allegiance. I would have to mention that, BATMAN titles, were a guilty twotiming turncoat addiction. i would sneak and read all the time. especially for the small story arc nature, or one shot stories. I am not sayin batman, was one of my monthly titles..but if i was bored or there was nothing out. I would go grab a stack of batman comics, and not worry about quality. get all my needs met, and appeased by any of the numerous batman comics, especially detective. One of the chief differences between MARVEL, and DC is. DC is owned by a larger conglomerate, WARNER BROTHERS. which means they are global. generally when it comes to their franchises, they create a wholesome product when put on a large drawing medium and scale. Mostly all DC characters suffer from dilution when put into a larger realm, and BATMAN & SUPERMAN, are two franchises, which suffered greatly because of their gloabl reach, and WB’s dilution. I lived through the gawdawful DC relaunchs and tries to make BATMAN, & SUPERMAN relevent, or current. As, DC broke batman’s back, and the franchise. then, inserted AZREAL, as a brooding killing batman, in a new cool suit and the whole garbage behind it. Plus, watched as they failed miserably to re-right the franchise, through almost DALLAS where is bobby, ishedead like similarites, in Bruce’s recovery. Let’s just say that in this movie they didn’t wane or dilute the impact, or the literary genius that miller supplied into the original story. nor, did they forget the rollercoaster ride, it took to tell the incredible tale, while also getting across the softness, that DC under WB had become stifled from. So, if you are a MARVEL guy, and are used to BATMAN being soft. that story arc, and component make this movie TOTALLY an incredible experience. AS, the screenplay includes that ripple in their product. But, in hall of fame like fashion, fashions that detail into one of the most riveting film contributions, in the comicbook genre history.

granted there are redeemable qualities, and more important stories that DC has given the comics world which some will say eclipse marvel. I have lived that storyline, and watched as vertigo, which really is the line of comics that was bought out by DC, that gave them the superior literary nod over, MARVEL. Vertigo comics line, is basically the line of comics that gave DC its acclaim at literary genius, and basically saved the line of comics, at DC from credible hell, in the mid to late eighties. Vertigo opened the door to save DC, as did the WATCHMEN[which was probably the most confusing title, and departure from typical comixbook stylings to read as a kid, but incredible.] being a child of the seventies though, i had been reading comics, and most importantly drawing comics almost most of my life, since three years old actually. One thing was always a constant, till the mid to late eighties, and before vertigo was bought out by DC:

MARVEL WAS ALWAYS BETTER THAN DC, WHOLEHEARTEDLY

The initial softness that WB, shackled onto its leading franchises in superman, and batman. Usually act as an inhibitor, but in this movie, this factor to uphold their softness, bolsters this film incredibly. it creates an incredible dialogue tackled in the plot climax of this movie in a conversation between BATMAN, & a defeated JOKER, BRILLIANTLY. i mean UTTER, SHEER BRILLIANCE, brilliantly played, magnified, honed, and owned almost solely by heath ledger. just his nuances, physically, plus his incredible depth, in small pieces of this film that act as a sort of origin to the JOKER, psychologically, as a character will have you spellbound, and wishing you could have more. WHEN, i tell you this JOKER, is better than any joker ever, in any batman adaptation, ever.. i am not playing. literally, LEDGER’s joker is the character lenghtening joker, in exact detail that gave spiderman new life, when TODD MCFARLANE, drew the hook spidey eyes, and finally showed the details in his webbing and weblines. LEDGER’s performance of the joker surpasses hannibal, and even the confident creepiness supplied by the villain in SE7en, as well. If you are looking for a villain to personify, a villain, look no further. As a matter of fact, he eclipes, and outdoes every moment jack nicholson had as the joker, in many and every moment of the film. any expert of the original BATMAN movie will notice the homage to the original joker. plus, Ledger’s incredible mastery, and progression to the outer fringe of almost and probably never being bested ever. I am not sayin this just because of his death, i am literally saying that ledger should have not died. he is one of the best villains ever, close to even mitchum/deniro capefear villain infamy, EASILY..no joke.. i mean seriously no joke. it seemingly feels like LEDGER channels ever joker ever created from the whimsical rasta on the cartoon, THE BATMAN, all the way to every comics book joker, while also outdoin even the JOKer badness that killd’t robin all in one fell swoop. Not to mention, the childlike component of the arkum, hannibal lector, connection that batman has with the joker….when he needs to seek the joker as an insight into helping him fight crime. The my good buddy batman joker moment, is even intact in this role, and just the sheer depth supplied in this scene gives homage to every person who ever read a batman comics, that had the joker as a dominant character.

Well, this socalled softness that existed in the comics was a killing component of the batman franchise…well, that was before Frank Miller, took to the batman franchise and created the darkknight storyline of lore. which by the way, over time was folded into batman’s continuity, but initially was offered as an alternative gateway reality to batman. Plus, was not integrated into the regular batman writings and runs. Similar to the godawful contribution people find so rewarding as the ULTIMATE XMEN parrallel universe. y’know the one, that sells high but is complete utter crap, and one reason i stopped reading comics all together. I included that to say, that hey, marvel has done its bad deeds, and over time. I just became an old defunct collector so small childlike issues of marvel vs dc, fell to the wayside. yet, the idea and ideal still existed when coming across DC material that i could get a product that could be stifled creatively, because DC is owned by the WB[warner bros] conglomerate. Making it open for tampering when it came to source material, which would ultimately dilute the overrall impact of the original literary contribution. Meaning when i heard DC, was making a film adaptation of Frank Miller’s dark knight. my initial reaction was:

yeah,..they will phuck this one up, ROYALLY.

plus, i will be royally pissed, if the joel schumaker bubbly bumbling buffonery school of film making mantra was upheld. meaning, WB would take the name of this incredible masterpiece, and literary best seller in the graphic novel realm, plus completely omit the value of the original comics. for the sake of tryin to globalize this batman entry, and make a dollar. granted i love, money, but i find it distasteful to ruin literary classic if adapted to film for the sake of a dollar. meaning, that if LOTR, was adapted so masterfully, and had so much acclaim. then why doesn’t every other franchise patterned after literary classic uphold the same. when, it is virtual proof that accurrate adaptations to the source material, show a film will reap the rewards in the box office and credibility.

with that said, this review which will be detailed because this film is highly important to the rest of movie making from adapted literary source material. I will tackle, the issues and list the differences this movie makes that should set, and fully solidify the industry standard, on comics book film making

Plus, dually i also cringed, because barring SInCITY. plus the whole omission of the actor’s guild, and the pr on that movie. Plus, Miller’s blacklisting fiasco in robocop II. When they left most of his writing genius on the cutting/editing room floor. while also making him take the blame for its awful showing in the box office revenue wise. Plus, dually blackmailing him, till SINCITY. Couple that with MARVEL omitting his classic, and industry changing critically acclaimed, highly detailed, and regarded run, on the movie DAREDEVIL. In that awful movie, which is actually worth reviewing on DVD, if you get the directors’s cut by-the-way. i felt regardless of his[MILLER's] recent triumphs in film, and box office receipts. that DC would still find a way to omit his material, pacing , and depth from this film.

WELL, I CAN SAY FINALLY IN A comics MOVIE.

DC SHOULD BE PRAISED BECAUSE THEY DID NOT DO SUCH A THING.

which wins huge kudos from me, and supplies much needed hope as a flim goer, and comics book movie fanboy.

LET’s just say if you haven’t seen this movie, and read the reviews, from positive to negative and are a former avid comics reader. plus know the legend

of this adapted graphic novel best seller. You will be rewarded with a movie that captures the dark noir writing style, and detail that miller beautifully supplied. Nolan, is incredible as a director on this film. His, cinematography, links the original batman franchises, from the noir filled original offering, made by TIM BURTON. Plus, mixes and obliterates the lighthearted bull***** that schumaker used to kill the once mighty batman franchise. He even retreads key moments of comparison to the original burton film, in his movie. while also surpassing them, with a large assault rifle toting joker, and gadget riding batman, gun battle ride into action. in comparison to the gag, almost vomiting in my mouth reflex of Jack’s joker pullin out a large long barrell 357, to shoot down batman. which, then nolan also, surpass a second time, by appealing to the cult following of the original movie. by giving the fanboy, a what if, the joker didn’t plunge, segueway into the conclusion and climax.

THE DARK KNIGHT, as a mechanism of film making also lengthens and gives credibility to staying to the source material of the comics. Which, also bolsters the entire genre of filmmaking, and gives hope to every fanboy alive. Especially disgruntled, and displeased fanboys, who left the realm of comics collecting. to look at every comics book movie entry with skeptism, initially. yes, there are a lot of fanboys out there, and honestly our commentary is what actually leads to movies being blockbuster draws in this genre. appease the fanboy, make a hundid million dollars…in a short time. after this movie, I have to say to every fanboy. “you should and will be happy to go into this movie and have all your prayers, FINALLY answered.”

Plus, now you can simply diss any other movie that is of the fanboy persuasion. If it doesn’t keep to the literary detailed styling seen in the source material. The boxoffice receipts of this movie should keep every future franchise honest, in that respect and regard. In every possible minute detail. so for the people reading and hearing about the next ironman being the drunk legendary ironman of lore. there is hope, after this film it will stick exclusively to the source material originally supplied in the comics story arc. plus, live up to the true offering that have made that story arc, a classic.

then hopefully we will get a DAREDEVIL story, written and directed by frank miller, and robert rodriguez, as well. to usher that character in to boxoffice lore as well.

On, the third installment of XMEN, that franchise went in a new direction with an awful pop video director, in BRETT RATNER. i should call him SHATNER, instead of RATTNER. simply because he SHAT upon, and completely sucked all the life out of the literary/comics conversion of the XMEN, in one fell swoop as a franchise. plus, could have ultimately stifled all comics bood movies from being good films instead of fanboy pieces as well. in that regard, THE DARK KNIGHT, is actually a real THRILLER psycho movie. It, even features an old switcheroo plot change that outdoes hancock’s as well. In XMEN III, rattner, omitted, the large wordbubble claremont style supplied in accuracy by XMEN’s original director who left for the superman franchise. which gets away from why comics book movies actually were a draw in the first place.

The DARK KNIGHT, completely picks up in detail, and lineage, where XMEN III lost and sucked all the steam outta the comics book genre, and literary conversion. In this film nolan sticks to miller’s noir literary style and bolstered it for the film. whereas rattner, completely stifled the genre of comixbook movie making, by reeling in large receipts which justified, the compromising of comics book source material. After, the godawful XMEN III, movie. i became almost an eternal skeptic to comics movies once again, and feared the genre would be dead by other franchises looking to make a buck in the boxoffice. while giving us compromised gateway fan products which lacked the initially uumph, which made the franchise a draw as a comics to become a movie in the first place.

let just say the darkknight’s box office receipts should eliminate comics movies from straying away from the source material.

with that said,..i welcome anyone to go see and enjoy: THE DARK KNIGHT

this movie is completly moving, and does every component of comics book filmmaking justice from compromise, and attention to detail from the source material.

you not only get an incredible joker, but you also finally get a BATMAN, who really is BATMAN for all intent and purposes in every possible way.. The batman, in the comics who is so confined, is able to spread his WINGS, so to speak in every way possible. While also,…taking a note from the compromise of spiderman’s, movie franchise component of the natural webshooters. This component is played out expertly in batman’s relationships, and his gadgetry. This Batman, played excellently, by the lisped Bale. acts as a complete foil, and character to all the comics movie franchises. supplying a character that although listed as the main attraction doesn’t lose his steam, or uumph in the wake of the incredibe performances offered by everyone in this movie. People are raving about ledger, but the contributions of all the other actors are left out unjustly. the performances in this movie are incredible. From the lighting, the makeup [especially of harvey two face, and the performance is inspiring, and just a psychological journey as the joker's performance as well.] even gary oldman, as commissioner gordon, is riveting.

but anyway,…i didn’t want to give away any spoilers for people who haven’t seen the movie, in my review. As, i am also…trying to make ground and work on reviews that tackle the gateway, to issues that create skeptism in an educated fan. without, giving away the premise or any of the detail for someone who hasn’t seen this film. for details and discussions i will take to the message boards, or when the forums.sohh.com, are back and running i will tackle the discussion there.

so till then, movie goers and fans…

signin out, and most importantly…GO SEE:

THE DARK KNIGHT

Now there's a great response.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Part 2:



Now there's a great response.

Dude c'mon! This was PAINFUL to read, a long and unfocused essay that said nothing substantial. There are some reasonable responses in that article, this one was not one of them.

 

[Keehar]

That critical article was painful to read, with nothing substantial worth reading, not to mention insulting when the author calls the fans 20-30 year old losers. Tune out of that garble when he said he wanted to leave after 20 minutes. Then you know you're in for a whole load of hyperbolic dreck.

At least most of the responses hammer the guy for writing that crap.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

That critical article was painful to read, with nothing substantial worth reading, not to mention insulting when the author calls the fans 20-30 year old losers. Tune out of that garble when he said he wanted to leave after 20 minutes. Then you know you're in for a whole load of hyperbolic dreck.

At least most of the responses hammer the guy for writing that crap.

Did you just seriously stole half of my statement? Does my opinion really bother you that much? Your obsession with me is getting scary...

 

[Knightfall]

All the best superhero movies get unjustly accused of being overrated once in a while. Spider-Man 2, X-Men 2, Dark Knight, Avengers and so on.

Actually I don't like any of those with the exception of part of TDK. I want to like all of those but the Rami Spider-man's don't do it for me at all... Even the all mighty 2. The X men movies bore me to pieces. The Avengers to me is almost as overrated as Star Wars... Just completely overrated, the fight scenes are choreographed very silly and the camera angles don't do any favors. The Special effects look cheap. The casting in the Marvel cinematic universe doesn't help either. I could go on. Now to the dark knight, parts of the movie were ok, but overall it felt sloppily paced and the casting wasn't great aside from the retuning cast and Ledger. The story felt very cliched as I could predict basically everything. I could go on but I much prefer Begins.

 

[MogwaiBat89]

Gotta say, unfortunately I'm one of the few people who dislike TDK.

Considering Batman Begins is my favorite Batman film and favorite superhero film, my total feeling of "meh" towards TDK is baffling.

I have to echo what others have said. The third act is where it all falls apart for me the most. I especially want to echo the dislike for the ferry scene. It is so obvious and hokey and stops the finale dead in it's tracks. The film takes on too much too fast and rushes to conclude everything within like, 20 minutes of screentime. It totally botches Two-Face. Honestly, his treatment in the finale is almost as bad as Venom in Spider-Man 3. And I'm not even being hyperbolic.

I also think the tone of the film is very pretentious. It presents itself as this layered commentary on duality, crime, violence, politics etc but everything about it is so surface it comes off like it's taking itself much too seriously. It literally spells everything out for me in bold letters. If there is no thing I do agree with some of the Nolan haters on, it's his terrible use grasp on exposition. He made it work in BB due to the films more emotionally honest core, but he goes nuts with TDK.

The tone of the film I find to be cold and clinical. I did not feel for any of the characters I was meant to except for Harvey, who they botched. My biggest gripe is that the whole conceit of the film is not believable in the slightest. I never once bought into Bruce wanting to give up being Batman as something tangible. Not because it may be out of character from the comics, but because the film itself didn't convince me of this on it's own. I didn't feel the love Bruce had for Rachel-the love she had for Bruce-the love she had for Harvey and Harvey for her. None of it was believable. And I'm supposed to think Bruce would pass the mantle to somebody for a love the film can't even convince me is real?

Look, I know I'm in the extreme, extreme, extreme minority. So much so I feel like a leper at times. But hey, we can't all agree all the time can we?

 

[Batmannerism]

Gotta say, unfortunately I'm one of the few people who dislike TDK.

Considering Batman Begins is my favorite Batman film and favorite superhero film, my total feeling of "meh" towards TDK is baffling.

I have to echo what others have said. The third act is where it all falls apart for me the most. I especially want to echo the dislike for the ferry scene. It is so obvious and hokey and stops the finale dead in it's tracks. The film takes on too much too fast and rushes to conclude everything within like, 20 minutes of screentime. It totally botches Two-Face. Honestly, his treatment in the finale is almost as bad as Venom in Spider-Man 3. And I'm not even being hyperbolic.

I also think the tone of the film is very pretentious. It presents itself as this layered commentary on duality, crime, violence, politics etc but everything about it is so surface it comes off like it's taking itself much too seriously. It literally spells everything out for me in bold letters. If there is no thing I do agree with some of the Nolan haters on, it's his terrible use grasp on exposition. He made it work in BB due to the films more emotionally honest core, but he goes nuts with TDK.

The tone of the film I find to be cold and clinical. I did not feel for any of the characters I was meant to except for Harvey, who they botched. My biggest gripe is that the whole conceit of the film is not believable in the slightest. I never once bought into Bruce wanting to give up being Batman as something tangible. Not because it may be out of character from the comics, but because the film itself didn't convince me of this on it's own. I didn't feel the love Bruce had for Rachel-the love she had for Bruce-the love she had for Harvey and Harvey for her. None of it was believable. And I'm supposed to think Bruce would pass the mantle to somebody for a love the film can't even convince me is real?

Look, I know I'm in the extreme, extreme, extreme minority. So much so I feel like a leper at times. But hey, we can't all agree all the time can we?

Dude, totally respect your opinion. That's a big call, that Two-face is as badly done as Venom. Again, respect your opinion, but a big call - because Venom was the biggest missed opportunity in SM 3.

Anyway, I disagree - in fact I always feel sorry for Harvey Dent at the end of TDK as he's been utterly destroyed in every sense - after being built up to be a very decent guy. Something I thought was particularly good about TDK...

and of course I' m one of the majority, although maybe a minority within that majority that think TDK is one of the best films of all time. It's the Godfather of superhero films. I totally acknowledge that TDK has a bunch of flaws, but the sum of the parts is breathtaking. I've probably seen the film several hundred times and it never loses its appeal for me - in fact I almost enjoy it more as time goes by.

So there you go, but I will say one last thing - if anything TDK is an anti-superhero film, because it's as much about Batman's failures as his successes, and it shows how badly equipped he is to fight menaces like the Joker - sure he's better than the cops, but not much. It's kind of a statement that the institutions we have, which are based on values, really struggle when they come up against assymetrical opponents, who don't really have any values - except destruction ! Sadly, there are plenty of those in the real world, although most of them don't commit atrocities for a laugh, but they find are plenty of other reasons.

Anyway, TDK is on my top 5 movies of all-time list, and can't be overrated within the superhero genre.

Cheers.

 

[Herofan]

After loving Batman Begins, I thought TDK was good but overhyped back in 2008 and I still think it's good but some things I really don't like.
My biggest complaints are that Bruce seemed too eager to quit, the Joker had too little dark humor and energy (he was too clearly, directly and, ironically, seriously an anarchist) and the whole Bruce/Rachel/Harvey love triangle was pretty bad (between Harvey and Rachel there was little charisma and the triangle made both Bruce and Rachel seem too selfish and petty). Also it would be better to not have Scarecrow again then waste him in a scene and not have him play a part later on.

 

[BH/HHH]

It's such a great movie and I don't think it's perfect but I'm not sure I'd go with overrated personally. The film is definitely about 10-20 mins to long in my book but it's not like it drags on like Superman Returns on X-Men 2 did. I would definitely remove that boat sequence as I did and still find it rather pointless at least at the length it is. I also think Begins is a better film, although I think I just love origin stories more so that could be the reason why.

 

[shauner111]

The boat sequence is the whole point. Trimming it? OK that's fair. I don't agree, but it's a fair opinion.

 

[BH/HHH]

The boat sequence is the whole point. Trimming it? OK that's fair. I don't agree, but it's a fair opinion.

Just my opinion dude, I really think that sequence could be re,over entirely with a little rewrite but as it stands it's way to long IMO and drags down the finale IMO.

 

[Herofan]

Another aspect I dislike, although it's also the case in some or many comics, is that it feels kind of cheap to give the Joker no actual origin (although I prefer to believe that either his second story was pretty much the truth or all of his stories had elements of the truth).

 

[BH/HHH]

I disagree on that it thought not knowing the Joker's origin in TDK was a major strength of the movie.