The Dark Knight The Official "The Dark Knight Is Overrated" Thread.

[Green Goblin]

I think The Dark Knight is a good movie, but the hype caused by Heath Ledger's untimely demise coupled with his portrayal of the Joker character, really sent it way above the orbit of overrated and out into infinity and beyond.

Not for me.

I do think a Batman movie will surpass it. One day.

 

[Batmannerism]

Disagree.

Personally, I think The Dark Knight and Iron Man are the two best superhero
movies to date.

However, TDK is the most complete. Sure it's not perfect and there are problems with it, but it's the best IMO.

Every time I see it, it gets better. IF I put it on in the background, I get sucked into it. It's a nearly Shakespearean tragedy.

This is of course, just my opinion, but I think that TDK deserves its acclaim and possibly more.

Good question to ask, and a worthy thread, but I have to disagree.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, it's certainly a question worth asking...but at the end of the day, nope. There are some people who will take the praise too far, sure, but it truly does deserve most of accolades it's gotten. Cream tends to rise to the top. There's a reason for its reputation beyond the tired "Heath Ledger died" argument.

The film is a flat out classic. I don't think we're likely to ever see a better-made Batman/Joker/Dent film. And since Joker and Two-Face are arguably the most important villains in the Batman universe, I think the odds are on it staying at the top of the mountain for a long time to come.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah, we won't see a solo Batman movie until it's been 7 or 8 years since the previous one. By that time, they might do one movie before we start diving into Batman Beyond territory. Most of the important themes will be done in the team-up movies. Sure, they could dive into the Joker and Batman relationship again as both characters will be in their late 40's most likely. But can they push that further than TDK? I dont know about further.

It's about the themes TDK explores, the Joker-Batman dynamic, Harvey's origin and mirror to Bruce and of course Ledgers performance. Those are the reasons why it's not overrated. It's an important film and an important Batman movie because of what it represents from the comics. Joker/Batman was cool in 1989 but in 2008 they dove waaaay deeper into that. Two-Face may not have had a lot of screentime (which will be corrected in the future) but you wont see a Harvey origin done like this again. It may not be attempted for decades. And will it be as fresh or significant without the great relationship of the Joker and Batman that happened at the same time? I don't think so.

 

[BatLobster]

That's the thing, nobody is going to even want to attempt a Joker/Dent centric film again for a long, long time because no filmmaker is going to intentionally chase TDK and step into its shadow. Not yet anyway.

I think it'll all depend on the state of the world/culture in 15-20 years or so. TDK perfectly captured the zeitgeist of the times and that's why it became such a transcendent thing with an aura around it.

It'll always be a benchmark both for the character and the genre. It's just a matter of the right timing and right elements coming into place where it's organic to do another big Batman/Joker story for the big screen that feels warranted and fresh, but I think time will only tell there.

 

[CountOrlok]

It's about the themes TDK explores, the Joker-Batman dynamic, Harvey's origin and mirror to Bruce and of course Ledgers performance. Those are the reasons why it's not overrated. It's an important film and an important Batman movie because of what it represents from the comics. Joker/Batman was cool in 1989 but in 2008 they dove waaaay deeper into that. Two-Face may not have had a lot of screentime (which will be corrected in the future) but you wont see a Harvey origin done like this again. It may not be attempted for decades. And will it be as fresh or significant without the great relationship of the Joker and Batman that happened at the same time? I don't think so.

Great points and I 100% agree on everything you said.

 

[Spider-Goblin]

It's ok

 

[Steamteck]

I've watched it several times month or years apart and I always dislike more than I remember and finish it very angry. Of the big superhero movies that were well received, only IM3 disappointed me more.

I honestly could rip into TDK for hours. There is almost nothing I found exciting or cool or interesting and tons I found annoying and made no sense to me. just thinking about the ending always get me annoyed in fact.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I do think that dark knight is overrated but still a great movie its just that most people think it is the best CBM ever or at least the best in the trilogy but i think it is the worst in the trilogy and that dark knight rises is the best in the trilogy and that dark knight is the 4th best CBM ever not one but all 3 in the trilogy are fantastic.

Finally someone said it! Seriously the only reason a lot of people disliked it is becasue it didn't meet their insanely high expectations which were based on the conception that TDK was the best movie ever.

The Dark Knight is a great movie if you only watch it once, it falls apart with different viewings and The Joker is the only thing that holds up.

 

[Agent Orange]

The militant hatred (Nolanite!) amongst the minority is really annoying. I can't stand it when people go out of their way to tell others that they're WRONG for liking something.

 

[BatLobster]

What gets me is that each one tends to act as if they're only one discerning enough, brave enough to stand up against the zombie masses and expose the movie for the fraud that it is. It's usually such an obvious ego-trip. And yeah, it's just as militant as they claim the other side of the fence to be.

 

[Agent Orange]

What gets me is that each one tends to act as if they're only one discerning enough, brave enough to stand up against the zombie masses and expose the movie for the fraud that it is. It's usually such an obvious ego-trip. And yeah, it's just as militant as they claim the other side of the fence to be.

I used to feel the need to defend my favourite films, TV shows, albums etc. to ad nauseam but as I've gotten older I'm come to realize that just about everything as a group of detractors on the internet. Google or Twitter search anything and you'll come up with a large number of "Insert media here really sucks!" or "This is what I'd do differently!" comments. And these folks always, always share the same problems. There isn't a single original thought and it becomes a giant circle jerk.

With the vast amount of comic book films and other adaptations out there "Shiny New Toy Syndrome" has taken on new meaning as well. People discard stuff easily, and it's a shame.

 

[Steamteck]

Its gotten better. I remember several years ago, I would start out as the lone voice of criticism but after I said something others would find their courage. This thread existing is actually pretty cool.

I admit, except for BB, I really dislike the Nolan Batman films a lot. I don't usually go these forums though so not to rain on people's parades. occasionally someone of another board will say something that annoys me though and I at least look over here. It tough when you really like a character but hate the film that's the current take. ( so although I loved MOS, I try not to be to harsh on the naysayers )

 

[SuperFerret]

The fact remains, The Dark Knight could possibly be the best comic book movie ever made (I disagree with this, but let's go with it for the sake of argument), and it would still be overrated.

"Overrated" just means that people rate it higher than it deserves. On this very forum, we've had people debate whether or not TDK helped Obama win the election, we've had people try calling it the "Woodstock of our time", we've had hyperbole after hyperbole thrown about left and right almost non-stop.

Is it an excellent movie? Yes. Is it overrated? Hell yeah.

 

[shauner111]

Anything popular is overrated. It will always be this way. I think forumers on here overrate Avengers, Dark Knight, even Batman Begins to an extent. But i still love Begins and Knight and think they're fantastic.

 

[Agent Orange]

I'm not a fan of The Matrix but I'd never begrudge its influence or impact or tell people that they're wrong for loving it. That's become a massive problem with the Nolan Batman films. This "Nolanite" crap disgusts me.

And hyperbole often swings both ways.

 

[famicommander]

I actually can't stand any of the three Nolan films.

I think Batman Begins is the best of the three by a pretty large margin, but that's not exactly saying much.

Some things I hate about the three films in general:
-Terrible action choreography. In BB the camera work is so terrible you can barely tell what's going on, and in the later films it's apparent why that was. Because whomever was in charge of the fight scenes had no idea what they were doing. The Bane fights in TDKR are especially bad.

-It's going to sound petty, but I can't stand Bale's Batman voice. It sounds like cookie monster, and it really bothers me that he uses the voice when talking to people who know he's Batman, such as Alfred, Lucius, or himself. In this aspect I think Kevin Conroy is without peers.

-The Batmobile design is cluttered and uninspiring

-Batman is a pretty terrible detective in the series. The audience is usually two steps ahead of the Bat, and the villains even more than that.

-In The Dark Knight, the major characters announce their narrative purposes directly to the audience. It beats the viewer over the head repeatedly with bad symbolism. There is no subtlety at all (minor dialog spoiler):

Spoiler

The movie outright announces that Harvey is the white knight, Bats in the Dark Knight, Joker is chaos, etc

-The whole spying machine nonsense in TDK pretty much comes off as a justification of the NSA spying (or, more topical when the film was released, the PATRIOT Act)

-It may have been intentional, but the Gotham depicted in the trilogy (especially after BB) does not come off as anything special. No gloomy atmosphere, no gothic architecture, no down and dirty feeling. The pilot was pretty bad, but Fox's new Gotham TV show excels in this regard and so do the Burton films.

I'm not just picking on the Nolan films, by the way. I hate the Schumaker films (who doesn't?) and I'm no huge fan of Batman Returns, either. Burton's first Batman movie also has its problems, but it remains the only live action adaptation I'd ever want to watch again (except Adam West, of course).

I think the animated Batman films are still far above any of the live action adaptations, with Mask of the Phantasm at the top of the list followed closely by Under the Red Hood and The Dark Knight Returns.

So as not to be a total negative nancy, here are the things I liked about the films:
-Liam Neeson as Ra's Al-Ghul
-Michael Caine as Alfred
-Morgan Freeman as Lucius Fox

I shall now stop hating on these movies here, because I understand this forum is mostly for fans. Just saw the thread title and had to blow my stack.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

This movie is simply the best batman movie to date for many people. Opinions vary, but for me it truly is the definitive live action batman movie. It has a great story that captures the essence of the character and his relationship with his villians Joker and Two Face really well. Plus Heath nails the role of the Joker and is simply way more engaging than Ras and Bane, Talia in the other movies. This movies ending is so epic, goosebump inducing and just captures the spirit of Batman so well that you can't help but be pumped up. Rises ending on the other hand, was more of a meh.

 

[Travesty]

 

[The Joker]

^ Because the coin spared Joker. Everyone he went after got a coin toss to decide their fate. Joker was not let off the hook. He just got lucky. That's how Two Face works. Chance decides his actions.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

^ Because the coin spared Joker. Everyone he went after got a coin toss to decide their fate. Joker was not let off the hook. He just got lucky. That's how Two Face works. Chance decides his actions.

Including himself. He absolutely would have shot himself if the coin came up that way. No doubt about it.

 

[Travesty]

Kinda. The Joker was lucky, as he forced Two-Face into sparing his life with his silly speech about chance and chaos. Before that, he was trying to strangle him, until The Joker took hold of his hands, and gave his "subtle" speech.

I didn't make that, I just saw it and posted it here, cause I thought it was funny.

 

[The Joker]

Including himself. He absolutely would have shot himself if the coin came up that way. No doubt about it.

I agree. Dent clearly didn't care about himself anymore. "You think I want to escape from this? There is no escape from this".

Kinda. The Joker was lucky, as he forced Two-Face into sparing his life with his silly speech about chance and chaos. Before that, he was trying to strangle him, until The Joker took hold of his hands, and gave his "subtle" speech.

He didn't force Two Face into anything. Two Face chose to decide his fate that way, just like he did everyone else he went after. Did Joker force him to do it that way for all the others he went after? No. Dent explained why he was doing it that way in the finale when he said Gordon's son had the same chance he and Rachel had; 50/50.

Joker's little chat with him didn't mention that at all. Joker gave him a loaded gun and pointed it at his own head. Joker didn't even know he would decide his fate with a coin.

 

[Travesty]

Of course The Joker knew, he was psychic with everything else in the movie.

 

[The Joker]

Mmmm yeah I could see that by the expression on his face when the people on the ferries didn't kill each other