BvS The Official Zack Snyder Directs Everything Thread - Part 4

[Boom]

I'm fine with Batman killing personally. I get why the rule is appealing, but it makes no dfference to me. They in your way, Bats? Mow em down!

Can't believe the Joker has managed to live this long.

 

[Monochron]

The way I saw it,Batman killed people in this movie in self defence.He was not a murderer who went out of his way to dispatch criminals.I see it like this,would I blame a policeman and call him a murderer/killer if he kills someone in selfdefence?No.I set the same standards for Batman as well.Its the same thing with Nolans Batman,I didnt have a problem with him killing Dent,as it was done trying to save someone.

Yeah that's the same as Batman killing for the noble cause of stealing a rock so he can use said rock to kill someone.

 

[idiot09]

Yeah that's the same as Batman killing for the noble cause of stealing a rock so he can use said rock to kill someone.

He was chasing the guys to get the kryptonite,and this maniac was shooting a machine gun at him,and he shot back.That dude died.How is that not self defence?If he did nothing,his batmobile would have blown up.

Also if it makes any difference,Bats doesnt have turrets in his batmobile anymore in Suicide Squad.He has evidently changed(also signified by him not branding Luthor).

For BvS :

For SS :

 

[Timebomb]

He was chasing the guys to get the kryptonite,and this maniac was shooting a machine gun at him,and he shot back.That dude died.How is that not self defence?If he did nothing,his batmobile would have blown up.

Also if it makes any difference,Bats doesnt have turrets in his batmobile anymore in Suicide Squad.He has evidently changed(also signified by him not branding Luthor).

Changed until the Martian Manhunter shows up and fights some evil aliens and accidentally destroys the Wayne Towers in Star City. Enter Bezerker Batman once again.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

 

[matt47]

But it's Batman. He shouldn't need to just shoot a car and blow it up. That's too easy and not very entertaining. Instead of shooting the car he could have used some sort of emp device to stop the car? Or used a locking system and shoot the guy who's shooting at him with rubber bullets?

 

[Timebomb]

In all seriousness, this Batman broke once, what will it be that makes him snap next? They made him mentally weak so it could be anything that makes him snap.

 

[Monochron]

He was chasing the guys to get the kryptonite,and this maniac was shooting a machine gun at him,and he shot back.That dude died.How is that not self defence?If he did nothing,his batmobile would have blown up.

Also if it makes any difference,Bats doesnt have turrets in his batmobile anymore in Suicide Squad.He has evidently changed(also signified by him not branding Luthor).

I guess I should have bolded this:

I didnt have a problem with him killing Dent,as it was done trying to save someone.

Killing to save someone and killing in order to obtain something to kill someone later are not the same thing.

Also we don't know for sure if those shots from Suicide Squad are set after BvS or if they are flashbacks.

 

[Monochron]

In all seriousness, this Batman broke once, what will it be that makes him snap next? They made him mentally weak so it could be anything that makes him snap.

He can't break anymore; He found Jes... I mean he found Superman.

 

[matt47]

In all seriousness, this Batman broke once, what will it be that makes him snap next? They made him mentally weak so it could be anything that makes him snap.

Good question. I think this was his mid life crisis in a way. So I think he just needed to get all of it out of his system. I hope he'll be alright from now on out. You know, unless something really bad happens, like, his parents came back from the dead but got raped and killed in front of him by Alfred.

 

[idiot09]

I guess I should have bolded this:

I didnt have a problem with him killing Dent,as it was done trying to save someone.

Killing to save someone and killing in order to obtain something to kill someone later are not the same thing.

Also we don't know for sure if those shots from Suicide Squad are set after BvS or if they are flashbacks.

Ofcourse they are not the same thing,as I said,I have no problem if he killed someone in self-defence.

Yes we dont know that.But guessing from the story they just told us,it makes sense.Ofcourse if this Batman further kills in this universe,I would be pissed too.For this story,it made sense for me.

 

[Timebomb]

Who knows? He could bite into a bad falafel and just loose it.

 

[Monochron]

Ofcourse they are not the same thing,as I said,I have no problem if he killed someone in self-defence.

Yes we dont know that.But guessing from the story they just told us,it makes sense.Ofcourse if this Batman further kills in this universe,I would be pissed too.For this story,it made sense for me.

Sure, my original point was that every time Batman kills, self-defence or otherwise, he risks becoming someone's Joe Chill.

 

[idiot09]

But it's Batman. He shouldn't need to just shoot a car and blow it up. That's too easy and not very entertaining. Instead of shooting the car he could have used some sort of emp device to stop the car? Or used a locking system and shoot the guy who's shooting at him with rubber bullets?

Ofcourse he could have,a perfect Batman would have done that.But right off the bat(see what I did there? :P ) we see this is not a perfect Batman.He is flawed,he is older,he is broken,he is world-weary.This Batman has become reckless and as Alfred put it("cruel").Even that guy put it this way ("There's a new kind of mean in him.He is angry and he is hunting".Thats why it made sense to me that this bats was so reckless and cruel.

I would also like to say I found it comforting and hopeful that he regrets his actions in the end,and promises to do better.However if he is again shown to not learn from his mistakes in the next movie,then yeah I'll be pissed.But for this narrative,I understood why it happened.

 

[idiot09]

Sure, my original point was that every time Batman kills, self-defence or otherwise, he risks becoming someone's Joe Chill.

Absolutely,the Batman they showed was at a point in his life,where he is just in this downward spiral,losing his morals,and becoming more cruel day by day.He is jaded,he is broken.Its not a perfect Bats by any sense.But it would also be unfair to say this was the only Batman to have broken this "rule" in live action.Nolans Batman in batman begins,burned down an entire monastery and killed so many people,his first action in batmobile was to mow-down and drive over a cop car with 2 policmen in it,he killed Dent,Talia etc etc etc.Atleast in this story its established that this is not our regular Batman.Its a Batman who was nearly lost his morals.Whether you like that is completely upto you.

Thats the point they made right,when he went to kill Superman?It was so similar,with Bats just about to kill this defenceless person and the last words out of his mouth are "Martha",the same as his father(they showed the flashback to drive this point home).At that point he realized if he killed Clark,he would become Joe Chill,by killing an innocent person.He felt the helplessness in Clark,that he felt as a boy when he couldnt save his mother.Thats why he said,"Martha wont die tonight",and saving Martha actually empowered him.

Atleast thats how I saw it,feel free to disagree.Its an interpretation and its fine if you didnt like it.I did.

 

[Monochron]

You don't think killing these guys, even in self-defense...:

....right before saving Martha undermines what he learned just a bit?

 

[matt47]

Look, every time we have this discussion about why it's okay that Batman kills in this movie is a moot point. Why? Because Snyder didn't mean for it to be this character arc! Listen to him talk about it -1:35 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0ZD6Wmu2L8

 

[idiot09]

You don't think killing these guys, even in self-defense...:

....right before saving Martha undermines what he learned just a bit?

Werent the guys shooting at him?Yeah they were.Like I said,self defence.

 

[Micromind]

Batman is a vigilante, occasionally, he may have no choice but to kill, in order to save someone, I know comics don't show it like that, and in movies he is not going out of his way just to kill, like Punisher.

But this is movies, not comics, people would not believe that Batman has been fighting crime (in fact worst Criminals that exist are in Gotham City) and has killed NO ONE as Batman in last 20 years, I mean, is it even believable ?


What are you guys even talking about ?

 

[idiot09]

Look, every time we have this discussion about why it's okay that Batman kills in this movie is a moot point. Why? Because Snyder didn't mean for it to be this character arc! Listen to him talk about it -1:35 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0ZD6Wmu2L8

If thats the case,I would certainly be the first to say I was wrong.Lets see what happens in Suicide Squad.

 

[idiot09]

Batman is a vigilante, occasionally, he may have no choice but to kill, in order to save someone, I know comics don't show it like that, and in movies he is not going out of his way just to kill, like Punisher.

But this is movies, not comics, people would not believe that Batman has been fighting crime (in fact worst Criminals that exist are in Gotham City) and has killed NO ONE as Batman in last 20 years, I mean, is it even believable ?


What are you guys even talking about ?

You actually make a very good point.

 

[matt47]

Batman is a vigilante, occasionally, he may have no choice but to kill, in order to save someone, I know comics don't show it like that, and in movies he is not going out of his way just to kill, like Punisher.

But this is movies, not comics, people would not believe that Batman has been fighting crime (in fact worst Criminals that exist are in Gotham City) and has killed NO ONE as Batman in last 20 years, I mean, is it even believable ?


What are you guys even talking about ?

But in the moments he kills in BvS aren't those "no choice" situations. The batmobile was taking those turret shots like it was nothing, he was in no danger. He didn't need to tow a ****ing car and throw it onto another car. The only "kill" I think was a no choice situation was KGbeast.

 

[Micromind]

But in the moments he kills in BvS aren't those "no choice" situations. The batmobile was taking those turret shots like it was nothing, he was in no danger. He didn't need to tow a ****ing car and throw it onto another car. The only "kill" I think was a no choice situation was KGbeast.

Yeah, I agree that was rather unnecessary, KGBeast's death doesn't bother me though.

I was making an observation about Batman in movies, it's going to be a bit different from Comics, some people was turned off by that.

 

[AnneFan]

But it's Batman. He shouldn't need to just shoot a car and blow it up. That's too easy and not very entertaining. Instead of shooting the car he could have used some sort of emp device to stop the car? Or used a locking system and shoot the guy who's shooting at him with rubber bullets?

BvS Batman was simply not in that mindset. The film makes a point of it. The UC emphasises it further. "He's angry and he's hunting." New rules.

 

[sf2]

and he is a criminal. nothing change.

 

[matt47]

and he is a criminal. nothing change.

yes it has sf2...everything's changed. had to