The Order: 1886

[DeadPresident]

the problem you're talking about isn't something exclusive to the gaming industry, it's far beyond that. there's movies that get horrible reviews and people will still go to see them; i'm pretty sure 50 shades broke some box office records, even though it got horrid reviews. same with some of the potc movies, the transformers movies, the twilight movies... if franchises have just grown to become big enough, it's hard for them to fall off, commercially.

this doesn't completely relate but annual sports games annoy me too. i don't buy them every year, i haven't even bought a new gen fifa yet, but obviously other people do... otherwise they wouldn't be releasing it every year. i know other people (including shuhei yoshida) aren't fond of this type of business practice either, but it's not gonna stop.

You're conflating two issues though. One issue is bad content, and there I agree with you, it's not just in games. However, the second issue which is exclusive to games is defective product. What we're talking about is buying a ticket to watch 50 Shades of Grey, and half way through the movie the sound cuts out, then your seat breaks and then they tell you to come back later and you can watch the movie again.

Due to internet access there is no reason for them to release a finished game, because consumers are stupid enough to fall in line with publishers expecting them to do updates every week so that a game functions properly.

that all sounds great. Given the cinematic moments vs actual gameplay, I think people would have been less on its case had it not been released as a big $60 title. $30 or even $40 would have likely silenced alot of the criticism against it

I agree with this. If they advertised it as a $30-40 cinematic game experience people would have been on board, but selling it at a full game's price when it doesn't contain a full game's worth of content is not setting your title up for success.

 

[Marvolo]

that all sounds great. Given the cinematic moments vs actual gameplay, I think people would have been less on its case had it not been released as a big $60 title. $30 or even $40 would have likely silenced alot of the criticism against it

Agreed. Not every game should be $60 right out of the gate. I might pick this up when it's $10-$15 but no way am I paying $60 for 4-5 hours of content.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Due to internet access there is no reason for them to release a finished game, because consumers are stupid enough to fall in line with publishers expecting them to do updates every week so that a game functions properly.

I don't think ND or even From software will pull this type of crap though. I think it depends on the devs and how much they care.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't think ND or even From software will pull this type of crap though. I think it depends on the devs and how much they care.

ND just didn't finish UC3. Much better.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

ND just didn't finish UC3. Much better.

what was wrong with that game's performance?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

what was wrong with that game's performance?

Nothing. I am talking about them heavily hinting that they rushed it out early to meet a date. Which explains the narrative and gameplay problems.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Nothing. I am talking about them heavily hinting that they rushed it out early to meet a date. Which explains the narrative and gameplay problems.

That's a separate issue. We were talking about devs releasing "unfinished" games. Uc3 performed well as a complete product, and if as a product itself it doesn't hold a candle to Uc2 is a different story.

me personally, the 2 things that bothered me about Uc3 was the countless waves and waves of enemies, and the lack of a final boss.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's a separate issue. We were talking about devs releasing "unfinished" games. Uc3 performed well as a complete product, and if as a product itself it doesn't hold a candle to Uc2 is a different story.

me personally, the 2 things that bothered me about Uc3 was the countless waves and waves of enemies, and the lack of a final boss.

An unfinished game can mean anything imo. UC3 screams unfinished to me, the same way The Order does. An unpolished, buggy game is another issue.

 

[Havok83]

I agree with this. If they advertised it as a $30-40 cinematic game experience people would have been on board, but selling it at a full game's price when it doesn't contain a full game's worth of content is not setting your title up for success.

Agreed. Not every game should be $60 right out of the gate. I might pick this up when it's $10-$15 but no way am I paying $60 for 4-5 hours of content.

Probably not going to happen but one thing I hope that emerges this gen is mid-tier games priced accordingly. Right now its the $20 and under indie stuff and the $60 AAA games. Not everything falls into these categories. Publishers need to start marketing and pushing some of their games in between at a $30-40 price point. You might end up selling more in the long run than at $60. I know Sony experimented a bit with these in the last few years of the PS3 (Sly 4, R&C:Into the Nexus) but this definitely should have been the case with The Order

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

An unfinished game can mean anything imo. UC3 screams unfinished to me, the same way The Order does. An unpolished, buggy game is another issue.

From the conversation taking place here, an unfinished game entails a release that's glitched and buggy. I don't think Uc3 suffered from that at its launched. If you say Uc2 had a better campaign than Uc3, you're naming why Uc2 is a better game than Uc3 overall. But it's not as if there was trouble with using Uc3 like a lot of people did with asscreed unity at its launch.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

From the conversation taking place here, an unfinished game entails a release that's glitched and buggy. I don't think Uc3 suffered from that at its launched. If you say Uc2 had a better campaign than Uc3, you're naming why Uc2 is a better game than Uc3 overall. But it's not as if there was trouble with using Uc3 like a lot of people did with asscreed unity at its launch.

Of course not, but we are still talking about an unfinished product that was hampered by a rush to meet an unreasonable release date.

What we got with UC3 was a professional studio that stopped work early, and curbed their ambition started changing things to make sure they made a release date. With Unity we saw a studio try and finish their ambitious ideas, but ran out of time. I hate buggy games that launch. But at least that can be fixed.

 

[Superhero 101]

My first round with the thermite gun was pretty awesome. Ha, such a different kind of weapon but if it can set people on fire from long range I'm down.

And holy crap ha, just encountered an enemy hitting *me* with a thermite gun , also pretty exciting.

Glad to hear ur enjoying it despite the few nitpicks

 

[TheVileOne]

Didn't really have any noticeable bugs or glitches in Uncharted 3.

Other than that in Uncharted 3, the multiplayer would sometimes lag. I always though melee was a little off and unbalanced in the game.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Of course not, but we are still talking about an unfinished product that was hampered by a rush to meet an unreasonable release date.

What we got with UC3 was a professional studio that stopped work early, and curbed their ambition started changing things to make sure they made a release date. With Unity we saw a studio try and finish their ambitious ideas, but ran out of time. I hate buggy games that launch. But at least that can be fixed.

from my understanding, the only component to Uc3 that ND themselves weren't satisfied with was the multiplayer. I could be wrong about that but I don't think they felt rushed. All uncharted games aside from Uc4 obviously have had 2 years in between releases.

Didn't really have any noticeable bugs or glitches in Uncharted 3.

Other than that in Uncharted 3, the multiplayer would sometimes lag. I always though melee was a little off and unbalanced in the game.

me neither. there were some funky framerate issues in the ubar mission though.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

from my understanding, the only component to Uc3 that ND themselves weren't satisfied with was the multiplayer. I could be wrong about that but I don't think they felt rushed. All uncharted games aside from Uc4 obviously have had 2 years in between releases.

Naughty Dog splits their teams. While there are two years between release dates, there is actually a longer production time. UC2 was being worked on while Uncharted was being made. UC3 was being worked on while Uncharted 2 was being made, and the same for TLoU. That is why they had didn't lead writers and directors. TLoU was actually delayed over a year because of what happened with UC3.

I remember playing UC3 the first time and wondering why the narrative was so rough compared to the first two games. Wondering why there was a lot of repetitive encounters. It felt incomplete.

It is actually the same with TLoU, though to a far lesser degree. The narrative is beautifully polished, but there felt like a part of the game was "skipped". They revealed they cut a certain chapter or two later.

 

[Oscorp]

Naughty Dog splits their teams. While there are two years between release dates, there is actually a longer production time. UC2 was being worked on while Uncharted was being made. UC3 was being worked on while Uncharted 2 was being made, and the same for TLoU. That is why they had didn't lead writers and directors. TLoU was actually delayed over a year because of what happened with UC3.

I remember playing UC3 the first time and wondering why the narrative was so rough compared to the first two games. Wondering why there was a lot of repetitive encounters. It felt incomplete.

It is actually the same with TLoU, though to a far lesser degree. The narrative is beautifully polished, but there felt like a part of the game was "skipped". They revealed they cut a certain chapter or two later.

Interesting, what part are you speaking of?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Interesting, what part are you speaking of?

Between Pittsburgh and the Dam. The transition is slightly off. They did a very good job of trying to make it work imo. It is a nitpick at best.

 

[Oscorp]

Between Pittsburgh and the Dam. The transition is slightly off. They did a very good job of trying to make it work imo. It is a nitpick at best.

Is it at one of the season transitions?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Is it at one of the season transitions?

I believe it is.

 

[Oscorp]

I believe it is.

I think I know which one you mean because when playing the game I actually thought there was a slightly odd feeling of a big and sudden jump (nothing major though, as you yourself pointed out). Not very unlike the cut in The Dark Knight Rises (starting work on the machine to "Now it's a nuclear bomb").

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think I know which one you mean because when playing the game I actually thought there was a slightly odd feeling of a big and sudden jump (nothing major though, as you yourself pointed out). Not very unlike the cut in The Dark Knight Rises (starting work on the machine to "Now it's a nuclear bomb").

That is exactly it. It feels like jumps quite a bit. It is between the death of the two brothers and meeting up with Joel's brother Tommy.

 

[Oscorp]

That is exactly it. It feels like jumps quite a bit. It is between the death of the two brothers and meeting up with Joel's brother Tommy.

Ah yes that's exactly the part I'm speaking of!

 

[Spider-Who?]

That is exactly it. It feels like jumps quite a bit. It is between the death of the two brothers and meeting up with Joel's brother Tommy.

I enjoyed that jump from a story telling perspective. What Joel and Ellie witnessed with the brothers was pretty horrific and they not only lost friends, but a sense of comfort and hope as well. Jumping a few months in time and showing how exhausted they are and still reeling from that experience made what happen more profound in my opinion. I don't need to see or play what happened in between those two levels because the story and acting fills in the games just fine.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I enjoyed that jump from a story telling perspective. What Joel and Ellie witnessed with the brothers was pretty horrific and they not only lost friends, but a sense of comfort and hope as well. Jumping a few months in time and showing how exhausted they are and still reeling from that experience made what happen more profound in my opinion. I don't need to see or play what happened in between those two levels because the story and acting fills in the games just fine.

My point is the story is missing something and thus doesn't naturally progress from a narrative standpoint.