The Piracy Threat...?

[BlackLantern]

I started this thread to gauge where people fell on this issue.....a couple of things have become clear.

1. Some people that have posted in this thread just seem to be a fake Robin Hood who seem to be under the impression that, just because all these studios and record labels are rich already, that makes it ok to steal.

2.Most of the above mentioned don't seem to feel they are doing anything wrong, probably due to the fact because they are indignant as to anyone "depriving" them of their "right" to be entertained.

3.Some people actually get it....That it is illegal and you can be held accountable.

Me personally. I never said it was fair...I'm saying as of right now it is the LAW of the land and unless the law is amended or changed....there are consequences.

 

[bell110]

I find all of this very funny. Anyone on here that was born before the internet knows that this is nothing new. People have bought albums for years and made tapes of their favorite songs or copies for friends. And no one ever bytched and moaned back then. In fact record sales went up from fans doing that. You'd get a copied tape of the latest AC-DC album and love it so much you just run out and buy it. The same went for VHS movies. No one can tell me they never rented a movie and never copied it before. But yet movies still make hundreds of millions in sales. Who here hasn't made a friend a tape or CD or had one made for them? You are lieing if you say you haven't.

Say what you will but it is greed onthe studios part to complain over people who download one song from a album. The real crime is charging people anywhere from $10 - $20 for an CD with 18 songs and only have 2 from it be worth listening to. If they start putting out better qulity music then maybe people will want to buy the whole CD. And these same artists that ***** about this now are the same people that copied their friends music collection growing up. To me that is just the pot calling the kettle black.

If the record and film companies want to blame someone for all this then blame the internet for making it so easy to do now. Not that it wasn't easy before. But if you put the tools to do something in a persons hands, you can't expect them to not use them.

Another funny thing is Radiohead's new CD is a free download on their web site. I guess they are stealing now too. The record cpmany better put them in jail.

QFT.

 

[Erzengel]

Uh, then just buy the song off Napster, iTunes if there's only 2 songs you like for less than $2.00.

 

[bell110]

I started this thread to gauge where people fell on this issue.....a couple of things have become clear.

1. Some people that have posted in this thread just seem to be a fake Robin Hood who seem to be under the impression that, just because all these studios and record labels are rich already, that makes it ok to steal.

2.Most of the above mentioned don't seem to feel they are doing anything wrong, probably due to the fact because they are indignant as to anyone "depriving" them of their "right" to be entertained.

3.Some people actually get it....That it is illegal and you can be held accountable.

Me personally. I never said it was fair...I'm saying as of right now it is the LAW of the land and unless the law is amended or changed....there are consequences.

Basically, recording albums has been a fact of life for music since the recordable tape was made. No sense in crying about it. No sense in making stupid laws with extraordinary penalities. This isn't something new, so I don't why people are complaining so much.

 

[Kelly]

Basically, recording albums has been a fact of life for music since the recordable tape was made. No sense in crying about it. No sense in making stupid laws with extraordinary penalities. This isn't something new, so I don't why people are complaining so much.

I wish you could sit down with 3 of my cousins who have lost their jobs at one of the largest distribution companies for DVD's and CD's in the nation. They no longer have a job, because of cutbacks. The main reason is the illegal downloads and piracy has hit the lower end of the industry the hardest. They are only 3 of hundreds upon hundreds that are losing their jobs at this company alone, not to mention countless others, all the way from these people, to the grips, to the caterers, etc.....so of course not, why should people be complaining so much.


Ignorance is bliss I see.....

 

[DareDemon]

Oh cry me a river

You're disgusting.

I don't understand how anyone can possibly think this. It's so ridiculous its incomprehendable.

You're not even arguing that's it's not stealing anymore, you're just saying "Oh well, my illegal gain, random father of three working at a record company's loss".

If you ever get money stolen from you, please don't try getting it back. Just stick with your own mentality.

 

[bell110]

I wish you could sit down with 3 of my cousins who have lost their jobs at one of the largest distribution companies for DVD's and CD's in the nation. They no longer have a job, because of cutbacks. The main reason is the illegal downloads and piracy has hit the lower end of the industry the hardest. They are only 3 of hundreds upon hundreds that are losing their jobs at this company alone, not to mention countless others, all the way from these people, to the grips, to the caterers, etc.....so of course not, why should people be complaining so much.


Ignorance is bliss I see.....

It sucks. But what about all those people who've lost their jobs making audio tapes. And the people who lost their jobs making vinyl records. Or the American car manufacturers who lose their job because people would rather buy foreign cars. CDs and the record company are becomeing obsolete. People lose their jobs all the time, and it sucks. It's more personal for you because they're your related to them. But, you can't let that personal, emotional response get in the way of progress. Besides, what about all those bands that gain fans and money because of illegal downloads? Should they not get that to keep your cousins employed?

 

[DareDemon]

There's nothing illegal or immoral about buying a foreign car

And it is more prevelant today due to the sheer easiness. Copying a CD is much easier than tapes or records, in case you didn't know (although, given the side you are on in the argument, I'd say you know better than most of us).

 

[bell110]

There's nothing illegal or immoral about buying a foreign car

And it is more prevelant today due to the sheer easiness. Copying a CD is much easier than tapes or records, in case you didn't know (although, given the side you are on in the argument, I'd say you know better than most of us).

But people lost their jobs. It is kind of immoral. People lost their jobs because you wanted a civic instead of a mustang.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

But people lost their jobs. It is kind of immoral. People lost their jobs because you wanted a civic instead of a mustang.

Is this an act, I hope?

 

[BlackLantern]

It sucks. But what about all those people who've lost their jobs making audio tapes. And the people who lost their jobs making vinyl records. Or the American car manufacturers who lose their job because people would rather buy foreign cars. CDs and the record company are becomeing obsolete. People lose their jobs all the time, and it sucks. It's more personal for you because they're your related to them. But, you can't let that personal, emotional response get in the way of progress. Besides, what about all those bands that gain fans and money because of illegal downloads? Should they not get that to keep your cousins employed?

Well when his cousins and my family lose jobs because of rampant illegal activity....its kind of tough to just chalk it up to progress....its people like you who think you are being "ripped off" just because you either can't afford the 15-20 dollars for a cd or DVD...or think you are too good to follow the rules like the rest of us...and being a musician or having a band doesnt mean you are entitled to become well known or famous.....

 

[DareDemon]

But people lost their jobs. It is kind of immoral. People lost their jobs because you wanted a civic instead of a mustang.

I hope this is sarcasm. I'm assuming it is.

But it still fails because choosing to buy something different != stealing.

But somehow I'm not surprised at what you say.

 

[The Lizard]

The only unauthorized downloads that I'm OK with are TV shows and foreign films that aren't easily available in one's own country.

I feel absolutely no guilt at downloading new Doctor Who episodes as opposed to waiting a year for the Sci-Fi Channel to get around to showing them. Same thing with certain Asian films (assuming that the download is from an actual Asian DVD and not a stupid camcorder-in-theater deal). Admittedly, there is less reason to do this these days since quality foreign shows and movies are made available in the US much faster than in the past.

Same story with the MST3K episodes that haven't been released on DVD. If something isn't available and looks like it won't be available for a long while, than I will happily download it just to watch it.

 

[bell110]

Well when his cousins and my family lose jobs because of rampant illegal activity....its kind of tough to just chalk it up to progress....its people like you who think you are being "ripped off" just because you either can't afford the 15-20 dollars for a cd or DVD...or think you are too good to follow the rules like the rest of us...and being a musician or having a band doesnt mean you are entitled to become well known or famous.....

What? It's not my fault it's a illegal. So, by your standards, if it wasn't a law, then it would be ok that they lost their jobs? It's a crummy law. It's like making a law that no one can buy foreign cars so American car manufacturers don't lose their job. Would it have been alright if in the late 80s, the record company lobbied and got laws pasted to make CD's illegal so tape manufacturers won't lose their jobs? And face it, you are being ripped off paying $15 for a cd. They charge like a 600% mark-up from the cost of making the cd. And instead of doing what a normal company would do when demands fall, the record company actually INCREASED the price of cds. You AND the artist are basically being screwed in the ass by the record companies and you're just like "oh well, it's the law." And I can afford a cd, but I can't afford to buy a crappy cd. What's the point of paying $15 and finding out that the cd sucks? I can rent a video game and a DVD and decide if I want to purchase it. I can't do that with a CD. And that 15 second clip that they have on online music stores, if they even have one, is not long enough to decide if an album is good enough. It takes a few listens before you can tell if you like an album or not generally. It's try-before-you-buy. It's been like that for almost 30 years.

And it's not thinking I'm better than anyone else. In fact, YOU GUYS are acting better then the downloaders. Wilhelm was saying we're brutes and mauraders. And BlackLantern, you engage in the services of prostitutes, so you can get off your moral high-horse anytime you'd like.

And I never said that musicians are entitled to anything. But, it would behoove the artist if people actually got to listen to them.

 

[Erzengel]

And pornography.

 

[bell110]

I hope this is sarcasm. I'm assuming it is.

But it still fails because choosing to buy something different != stealing.

But somehow I'm not surprised at what you say.

It was sarcasm. But the problem some people have with illegal downloads is that people lose their jobs. So, what about other people that lose their jobs, shouldn't we make laws to protect them just like the government is making laws to protect the RIAA?

 

[The Lizard]

And pornography.

Heh -- that could open up a discussion about how the online porn industry is largely dishonest and sleazy in its own dealings and might even deserve to be ripped off via piracy...

 

[BlackLantern]

What? It's not my fault it's a illegal. So, by your standards, if it wasn't a law, then it would be ok that they lost their jobs? It's a crummy law. It's like making a law that no one can buy foreign cars so American car manufacturers don't lose their job. Would it have been alright if in the late 80s, the record company lobbied and got laws pasted to make CD's illegal so tape manufacturers won't lose their jobs? And face it, you are being ripped off paying $15 for a cd. They charge like a 600% mark-up from the cost of making the cd. And instead of doing what a normal company would do when demands fall, the record company actually INCREASED the price of cds. You AND the artist are basically being screwed in the ass by the record companies and you're just like "oh well, it's the law." And I can afford a cd, but I can't afford to buy a crappy cd. What's the point of paying $15 and finding out that the cd sucks? I can rent a video game and a DVD and decide if I want to purchase it. I can't do that with a CD. And that 15 second clip that they have on online music stores, if they even have one, is not long enough to decide if an album is good enough. It takes a few listens before you can tell if you like an album or not generally. It's try-before-you-buy. It's been like that for almost 30 years.

And it's not thinking I'm better than anyone else. In fact, YOU GUYS are acting better then the downloaders. Wilhelm was saying we're brutes and mauraders. And BlackLantern, you engage in the services of prostitutes, so you can get off your moral high-horse anytime you'd like.

And I never said that musicians are entitled to anything. But, it would behoove the artist if people actually got to listen to them.

That is entirely your opinion that you are being "ripped off"....Producing a CD does in fact cost next to nothing, but cost of the case, printing up all the cover art and labels, delivery truck, gas are all factored into the pricing. CD's have been between 13-18 dollars for quite some time now. My philandering doesn't cost people jobs.....and its not a federal offense....in most states its just a misdemeanor...its not even a felony...

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

And face it, you are being ripped off paying $15 for a cd. They charge like a 600% mark-up from the cost of making the cd.

Dude, if you take all the minerals and chemicals and crap that make up the human body, it's worth a couple of bucks.

Do you really think that when you buy, say, an art book buy Boris Vallejo, you're buying paper and ink?!?

You're not buying a laser-etched plastic disc when you buy a CD.
If you WERE, then Halo 3 and Tetris would have the exact same value.
A DVD of Gigli or Ishtar should go for the exact same price as a DVD of Batman Begins, because they're made out of the exact same ammount of plastic!
What a R.E.T.A.R.D.E.D. world that would be

You think if a sculptor finds a stump in the woods and carves it into a sculpture, he can't sell it because there was no price tag on the wood he used?!

My GD.....well, we're getting a great insight into the horrifyingly clueless mindset/attitudes of these thieves.

My god.

 

[knowsbleed]

Dude, if you take all the minerals and chemicals and crap that make up the human body, it's worth a couple of bucks.

Do you really think that when you buy, say, an art book buy Boris Vallejo, you're buying paper and ink?!?

You're not buying a laser-etched plastic disc when you buy a CD.
If you WERE, then Halo 3 and Tetris would have the exact same value.
A DVD of Gigli or Ishtar should go for the exact same price as a DVD of Batman Begins, because they're made out of the exact same ammount of plastic!
What a R.E.T.A.R.D.E.D. world that would be

You think if a sculptor finds a stump in the woods and carves it into a sculpture, he can't sell it because there was no price tag on the wood he used?!

My GD.....well, we're getting a great insight into the horrifyingly clueless mindset/attitudes of these thieves.

My god.

I don't really download much music...and the music I do download is usually remix/mashup stuff that you can't find anywhere else except the internet...BUT...

how do you put value on an artist just because he's signed to a record label? There are thousands of unsigned or underappreciated signed artists that willingly give away free downloads just to spread their music...are they any less valuable?

 

[Addendum]

So no one lost jobs in the recording industry before internet downloads started?

 

[bell110]

That is entirely your opinion that you are being "ripped off"....Producing a CD does in fact cost next to nothing, but cost of the case, printing up all the cover art and labels, delivery truck, gas are all factored into the pricing. CD's have been between 13-18 dollars for quite some time now. My philandering doesn't cost people jobs.....

But it's illegal :gasp: That has been your defaut position for 17 pages.

And you totally blew by the rest of my post. again.

And their is NO PROOF that illegal downloads are to blame for job loses. There are a lot of other factors. Everything I have read on the subject has said that illegal downloads have almost no effect on the record companies profits.

And, I have yet to see were you got those "pre-napster" 700+ unit numbers from.

 

[bell110]

Dude, if you take all the minerals and chemicals and crap that make up the human body, it's worth a couple of bucks.

Do you really think that when you buy, say, an art book buy Boris Vallejo, you're buying paper and ink?!?

You're not buying a laser-etched plastic disc when you buy a CD.
If you WERE, then Halo 3 and Tetris would have the exact same value.
A DVD of Gigli or Ishtar should go for the exact same price as a DVD of Batman Begins, because they're made out of the exact same ammount of plastic!
What a R.E.T.A.R.D.E.D. world that would be

You think if a sculptor finds a stump in the woods and carves it into a sculpture, he can't sell it because there was no price tag on the wood he used?!

My GD.....well, we're getting a great insight into the horrifyingly clueless mindset/attitudes of these thieves.

My god.

You totally don't get what I said.

 

[PemLam]

Dude, if you take all the minerals and chemicals and crap that make up the human body, it's worth a couple of bucks.

Do you really think that when you buy, say, an art book buy Boris Vallejo, you're buying paper and ink?!?

You're not buying a laser-etched plastic disc when you buy a CD.
If you WERE, then Halo 3 and Tetris would have the exact same value.
A DVD of Gigli or Ishtar should go for the exact same price as a DVD of Batman Begins, because they're made out of the exact same ammount of plastic!
What a R.E.T.A.R.D.E.D. world that would be

You think if a sculptor finds a stump in the woods and carves it into a sculpture, he can't sell it because there was no price tag on the wood he used?!

My GD.....well, we're getting a great insight into the horrifyingly clueless mindset/attitudes of these thieves.

My god.

You should be flogged for even mentioning that "movie".

Lantern--will any of your prostitutes be willing to flog someone!?

 

[BlackLantern]

WASHINGTON-The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) announced today that the number of units shipped domestically from record companies to retail outlets and special markets (music clubs and mail order) fell 10.3 percent in 2001.

Specifically, total U.S. shipments dropped from 1.08 billion units shipped in 2000 to 968.58 million in 2001-a 10.3 percent decrease. The dollar value of all music product shipments decreased from $14.3 billion in 2000 to $13.7 billion in 2001-a 4.1 percent decrease, according to figures released today by the RIAA.

"This past year was a difficult year in the recording industry, and there is no simple explanation for the decrease in sales. The economy was slow and 9/11 interrupted the fourth quarter plans, but, a large factor contributing to the decrease in overall shipments last year is online piracy and CD-burning," said Hilary Rosen, President and CEO of the RIAA. "When 23 percent of surveyed music consumers say they are not buying more music because they are downloading or copying their music for free, we cannot ignore the impact on the marketplace."

This is from the RIAA website in one of their press releases...