The 'race' issue...

[mr. peasant]

great post, Kaypain. not sure i agree that few Asians would have tried out for this role considering Goku is probably the biggest fictional hero to come out of Asia, but i see your points and i agree with most of them. in the end, this discussion isn't so much about changing what currently is (Chatwin as Goku) but more or less for future ventures and for exercising racial tolerance. i've seen quite a few people come in here with narrow views and end up with more fair views.

Regarding the few Asians auditioning part, I would have to say yes and no. Seeing as how auditions were held in North America (I would say U.S. or Hollywood but I'm not entirely certain it was just restricted to just those specific localities), even if a high number of Asians auditioned relative to their population size, it'd still pale in comparison to the number of Caucasian actors who would've auditioned simply because of the number of Caucasians relative to Asians in both, the general population as well as in the acting industry. Hence, a Caucasian would have had a higher probability of being picked as Goku simply by outnumbering Asian auditioners.

 

[javphonic]

Goku is white, that' was how I saw it when I watched the anime

me too, only until I got older did I realize he was considered by some as asian

 

[huzzah]

me too, only until I got older did I realize he was considered by some as asian

I wonder if the Japanese fans of the Manga / Animie viewed him as white too?

 

[DorkyFresh]

i'm an Asian that grew up in American towns that were ethnically diverse. i was first exposed to Dragon Ball while i was living in the middle of North Carolina and even though my friend who introduced me to DB was French, my first thought was that Goku was supposed to look like an Asian.

if there are people in Japan that think Goku is supposed to look white then they either must be white themselves, or must have a fetish for Western culture (much like some Americans have fetishes for Japanese culture).

 

[MoPlaYa]

When I first saw Dragonball I didnt know it was made in Japan. I thought it was an American cartoon. Even after I found out it was a Japanese anime I still thought no one on the show looked Asian. I think its because no one has slanted eyes.

 

[kaypain]

It's wierd to me sometimes. I was 8 years old when I first watched Dragonball, and I wasn't into it at first, I always thought it was stupid, until I actually sat down and got into it, I became a fan immediately, then came the Toonami days with the horrible cut-versions but anyways, like I said it was wierd to me because there where times when Goku looked Asian to me, (at certain angles, situations, and etc..) but then there were times when he looked white, as I posted before, the clarity of some of the footage kinda shifts with his skin tone, one time he looks more brown and at other times he looks pale. This is why I believe we just say F it and compromise, he could be play by anyone based on looks, hell, I would even settle for a light-skinned Black guy, it really doesn't matter to me.

Now I absolutely have no problem with Goku being played by an Asian, but I will admit the Asians picked for the two Asian Dragonball Live Action Movies were just terrible, even though they were kids but I believe one of them was actually a girl I'm not sure. I think those movies are good examples of what NOT to do in a Dragonball movie, even though they were funny and entertaining, they're just crap. I would be more than happy if an Asian was casted but I also wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't. It's typical America, it's a common, so that means I'm used to it.

But you know, and some may not agree on this.I really like the idea of Goku being white, I mean you have this alien boy, who is found by an Asian master and he gives him an Asian name. You have this alien boy raised in Asian influenced culture and surrounding, it could really show how different he is from that culture.
With all this said, find a Euroasian... or a mixed actor so people could just be silent.
This one person told me Goku is Saiyan and Asian, how is this possible. I mean come on we are talking about a fictional Anime character with a fictional race. His race is Saiyan end of story, he's not human, he wasn't born on Earth, so therefore saying he his race isn't Saiyan is crazy. But then here comes the counter-argument. The "Akira never originally intending for Goku to be a Saiyan" Argument.

I call this argument out, and I also call it BS because. Akira said in an interview he didn't even originally intended Goku to be a human, his first thought was to make him an actual monkey.. and also, this series is over 20 years freaking old, don't sit there and bring up what could of happen and what originally was supposed to happend, what's said is said and what's done is done. He IS a SAIYAN, intended or not, he is a Saiyan, that's the story, and that's final.

 

[DorkyFresh]

great points, kaypain...while i don't agree with some of them, i think we can agree that a Eurasian actor would have satisfied the majority as far as race is concerned.

 

[CyclopsSummers]

Just because he grew up in an Asian setting doesn't make him Asian. He's not native to the earth. Therefore, white or asian could've worked.

C.Kent's not native to the earth, so Reeves or Cain or Routh could've worked lol

But when Akira created him he was not alien. This idea will be for DBZ.
Now, in DB Son Goku was considered as human, and ChiChi Yamsha Kame Kurilin look like asian that is true.

"Goku is Asian"
"Goku is Saiyan"

Hes saiyan and he looks like asian that is what we notice. And others saiyans look asians too.
But in DB we dont know he's from Vegeta.

Stop saying he's alien. its useless
Giving reasons to justify a white actor for the role. In DB there are no aliens yet and like Chichi Yamcha and others, Toriyama made him as an asian thats all.

 

[kaypain]

Hes saiyan and he looks like asian that is what we notice. And others saiyans look asians too.
But in DB we dont know he's from Vegeta.

Stop saying he's alien. its useless
Giving reasons to justify a white actor for the role. In DB there are no aliens yet and like Chichi Yamcha and others, Toriyama made him as an asian thats all.

It doesn't matter if they weren't revealed as aliens yet in Dragonball, the fact still remains he's a F'ing alien from space, end of freaking story. By your logic you're saying all characters are Asian, including Piccolo and that all aliens are Asian...that's effing BS! He's a freaking alien that looks Asian and Caucasian I didn't justify nothing, I said he could be played by either or but since this is an American film, 9/10 they are going to cause an Caucasion over anything so there's no surprised there. And not all Saiyans look asian either, hell I even saw a black saiyan once in the show...

Even though in DB Goku's origin wasn't revealed, it was pretty blatant that he wasn't human, given the fact he was a kid with a feaking tailm, could transform into a 20 ft monkey, could take on an entire army, etc...

 

[Omega Red]

I am really starting to see if the character is turned white not many have a problem with it, but if its the other way around all hell breaks loose

 

[DorkyFresh]

I am really starting to see if the character is turned white not many have a problem with it, but if its the other way around all hell breaks loose

there is a race thread on most boards dedicated to DB precisely because there are a lot of fans that are disappointed that they went with a Caucasian actor. we don't know how the fan community would've reacted if they had gotten an Asian or a Eurasian actor, but we know that these discussions were brought about by fans who are upset about a character that came out of Asia, whose features mostly fit the general description of an Asian, that is being played by a White actor.

 

[Omega Red]

I know I was just saying. Everyone dodge my questions about other movies where race was changed.

I didnt say it to cause a riot I was just stating what I saw in this thread

 

[CyclopsSummers]

Even though in DB Goku's origin wasn't revealed, it was pretty blatant that he wasn't human, given the fact he was a kid with a feaking tailm, could transform into a 20 ft monkey, could take on an entire army, etc...

And Lunch. She's schizo. Her personality changes each time she sneezes. But we dont tell she is mutant or alien.
In DB world, humans have superpowers. Goku's origin was just not revealed. He was considered as an human until DBZ.

look at Seiya or Captain Tsubasa. They are japanese.
Saying Goku n ChiChi dont look like asians is same thing that saying Seiya n Tsubasa dont look like asians.


Saiyan or not saiyan, he looks more asian

 

[kaypain]

And Lunch. She's schizo. Her personality changes each time she sneezes. But we dont tell she is mutant or alien.
In DB world, humans have superpowers. Goku's origin was just not revealed. He was considered as an human until DBZ.

look at Seiya or Captain Tsubasa. They are japanese.
Saying Goku n ChiChi dont look like asians is same thing that saying Seiya n Tsubasa dont look like asians.


Saiyan or not saiyan, he looks more asian

Dude it doesn't matter when it was revealed, he is a freaking Saiyan end of discussion, why do you keep bringing this up...

and yeah he looks Asian in that picture...which looks more like pic from a DBZ special rather than the actual show...but he looks more caucasian in this one

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5822/dragonballqx3.jpg

I never said he didn't look Asian, I said he can't BE Asian, learn the difference between BEING something and LOOKING like something....

Stop bringing up this he wasn't revealed an Alien until DBZ, it doesn't freaking matter, Akira might not originally intended him a alien in DB but he sure did accept it and even decided to make more Saiyans... so therefore, Goku being a Saiyan is incontrovertible, It's his race, he's not human, he's a freaking Alien that looks Eurasian or Asian at best.


He looks less Asian in these pics... which are actual screen shots from the Anime

answer me this, why does the Goku from these pics look remotely different than the Goku pic you posted??

 

[Cartman Blues]

It's the better animated stuff. It seems they tried to make Goku look more Asian as time passed. Look at the 4th DB TV special. Look at GT. Look at all the new animations for DBZ. They all have Goku with brown skin. Asians might've complained about Goku looking white in Dragonball and DBZ. Had Goku had the same brownish skin the entire series, I could see the problem with some people more clearly.

 

[mr. peasant]

there is a race thread on most boards dedicated to DB precisely because there are a lot of fans that are disappointed that they went with a Caucasian actor. we don't know how the fan community would've reacted if they had gotten an Asian or a Eurasian actor, but we know that these discussions were brought about by fans who are upset about a character that came out of Asia, whose features mostly fit the general description of an Asian, that is being played by a White actor.

If by general description you mean two eyes, a nose and a mouth, then yes. To be honest, I can't see features of any particular race in most of the non-caricature characters. So, for the sake of keeping things as objective as possible, the discussion was brought about by fans who were upset that a character from Asia, who they interpret as appearing Asian is being portrayed by a White actor. Odds are, had an Asian actor gotten the part, the same debate would be happening as well and if the actor was Eurasian, then both sides will be complaining. That's just the nature of the Internet.

 

[DorkyFresh]

that's pretty much what i said...i just threw a little of my bias in there. if being subjective is your objective then that's your prerogative.

 

[CyclopsSummers]

I never said he didn't look Asian, I said he can't BE Asian, learn the difference between BEING something and LOOKING like something....

Dude I know better than you, this is what i said: In DB world there are not asian european african and others. But characters look like asian or european or indian or afro that is the true.
And one more time stop saying saiyan or alien ... .
In DB there are not saiyans, Goku was considered as a guy from earth thats all.
If Chichi Yamsha Kurilin Kame and Mai look like asians, why not Goku ?

 

[BestGirl]

If by general description you mean two eyes, a nose and a mouth, then yes. To be honest, I can't see features of any particular race in most of the non-caricature characters. So, for the sake of keeping things as objective as possible, the discussion was brought about by fans who were upset that a character from Asia, who they interpret as appearing Asian is being portrayed by a White actor. Odds are, had an Asian actor gotten the part, the same debate would be happening as well and if the actor was Eurasian, then both sides will be complaining. That's just the nature of the Internet.

I don't think there would be as much complaining if an Asian or Eurasian had gotten the part.

 

[CyclopsSummers]

So Kristin Kreuk is the resolution
Oh **** shes playing Chun Li

 

[mr. peasant]

I don't think there would be as much complaining if an Asian or Eurasian had gotten the part.

I think the race debate was going to happen regardless of who was cast. This is the problem of making a live action movie out of a non-Western animated series that takes place in a fantasy world with a different classification of 'race' and was shown around the world. Everyone's going to interpret it differently. But as long as a sufficiently large group holds a particular view, using that interpretation is going to be 'valid'. However, whichever view is chosen, it would still be contentious.

 

[Alchemyst]

Dude it doesn't matter when it was revealed, he is a freaking Saiyan end of discussion, why do you keep bringing this up...

and yeah he looks Asian in that picture...which looks more like pic from a DBZ special rather than the actual show...but he looks more caucasian in this one

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5822/dragonballqx3.jpg

I never said he didn't look Asian, I said he can't BE Asian, learn the difference between BEING something and LOOKING like something....

Stop bringing up this he wasn't revealed an Alien until DBZ, it doesn't freaking matter, Akira might not originally intended him a alien in DB but he sure did accept it and even decided to make more Saiyans... so therefore, Goku being a Saiyan is incontrovertible, It's his race, he's not human, he's a freaking Alien that looks Eurasian or Asian at best.


He looks less Asian in these pics... which are actual screen shots from the Anime

answer me this, why does the Goku from these pics look remotely different than the Goku pic you posted??

Im gonna take a stab at this one, maybe because the pics you posted are from earlier in the series where the character designs and colors were rather basic, as the show progressed, the art style became more refined, thus ending with the result of Goku looking more asian. I always assumed Goku was asian, the whole cartoon was asian themed. Hell the drop the "y" in his race, and you can spell asian lol. SAIyAN

 

[BestGirl]

I think the race debate was going to happen regardless of who was cast. This is the problem of making a live action movie out of a non-Western animated series that takes place in a fantasy world with a different classification of 'race' and was shown around the world. Everyone's going to interpret it differently. But as long as a sufficiently large group holds a particular view, using that interpretation is going to be 'valid'. However, whichever view is chosen, it would still be contentious.

I'm sure there are a few people who would've wanted a white guy to play Goku, but DB is a manga based on a character from Asian mythology who has a Japanese name. I'm hard-pressed to think of any reason why Goku should've been made white, except he has pale skin and round eyes in the manga, but then so do Chi Chi and Yamcha, who are being portrayed by Asian actors with no racial complaints from fans. Making Goku white just seems to fall in line with Hollywood's tendency to shaft minorities for leading parts.

Personally, I don't care much about the race debate. I just think Fox could've saved themselves a whole lot of trouble by casting an Asian or Eurasian man as the star.

 

[DorkyFresh]

I'm sure there are a few people who would've wanted a white guy to play Goku, but DB is a manga based on a character from Asian mythology who has a Japanese name. I'm hard-pressed to think of any reason why Goku should've been made white, except he has pale skin and round eyes in the manga, but then so do Chi Chi and Yamcha, who are being portrayed by Asian actors with no racial complaints from fans. Making Goku white just seems to fall in line with Hollywood's tendency to shaft minorities for leading parts.

Personally, I don't care much about the race debate. I just think Fox could've saved themselves a whole lot of trouble by casting an Asian or Eurasian man as the star.

 

[Alchemyst]

Saiyan - y = asian