The Strongest In The Marvel Universe?

[ang_hulk]

So, Hulk can't break Cap's shield...that's a given.

But, can't Cap's shield break Hulk's nose or something? It should be able to, theoretically.

So, technically, Cap's shield is stronger than the Hulk too. t:

no?

 

[rodhulk]

Um...Hulk in the comic didn't dispute it, or try to. Juggs said they had done that dance before and Juggs won, and Hulk said no one listens that what happened before is dead. Pretty much he confirmed it, then said that the past fights don't matter however the current one does, so in essense it's true, not false. Also Juggs (even if it was Juggs in civilian disguise) did cleanly KO Hulk once, which is what they could have been refering too.

1) Exactly. Hulk didn't dispute it. So, we really don't know what he thought, do we?
2) Continuity! We KNOW Juggs has not always won so continuity could be in question here.
3) Yes, it could be the civilian Juggs that they were referring to. We also saw Hulk HURT Juggs with a coupel of punches, soemthing too many people say can't happen. And then Hulk KO'd Juggs.

 

[rodhulk]

But isn't this already the Hulk that's so much stronger than he's ever been?

Well if he can't overpower classic Juggs. Well, I call that a poor showing for the Hulk.

In any case the Hulk readily admited that Juggs has beaten him before and then talked about how he's stronger than ever

Know what happened next?

Juggs stalemated him.

Deny it if you can.

Perhaps this Hulk is stronger, but War Hulk had cel tech which may have not been 'muscle power' or all muscle power.

I never said Hulk doesn't have poor showings (Spiderman with the truck a year or so back), but Juggs has poor showings too, don't forget.

We also know it's CANON that Hulk has BEATEN Juggs too which is all I was pointing out to you.

Did I deny that Juggs stalemated Hulk? If you can't show this then admit the error in your ways.

 

[rodhulk]

Man I'm not saying Hulk has never beaten Juggs.

I'm saying that short of battle removal or outside intereference, he can't beat him straight up.

I'm also saying that Hulk admited that Juggs has beaten him before just to counted that impression that I am getting from some people (read: Dac) that Hulk owns Juggs or some other absurdity.

As for it not being true. Which part?

The part that Juggs said it and Hulk aknowledged it? Well that's true.

The fact thart Juggs has beaten Hulk before? Well that's true.

As for War Hulk, prove to me you are not a fan boy. All you have to do is admit that it was the celestial tech that stopped Juggs and not the Hulk. Heck apocalypse himself said so on panel. Admit it and I will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are not a fanboy. I mean really. Why don't I just say hey King Thor killed the Hulk without his hammer. YEAH THOR OWNS HULK! That would piss you off wouldn't it? You'd argue extenuating circumstances and a character who's over charged right? Same thing with War Hulk. Heck at least King Thor had the power within him as opposed to some alien god gear that fused to him temporarily.

Hulk can't beat Juggs straight up? Already has, and outside of the War Hulk episode.

As for your rif with Dac, that's between you guys. I DON'T agree with everything he says about the Hulk, but I MOST SURELY agree with more things he says than what you say, not that it matters, but still.......

I never said Juggs hasn't beaten the Hulk before. Show me where. This is something you must do cause if you can't, then I guess I'm not as bad as you say I am.

However, the problem witht he statement of Juggs and Hulk's answer is that we know from the past (and to which you agree) Hulk hasn't ALWAYS lost to Juggs.

With War Hulk, can't prove anything with the cel tech or Hulk's power. I take it as both combined. Apoc seemed to indicate it was the cel tech and Hulk (at the moment of the near and possible decapitation of Juggs) said it was HIS power I believe. Did Hulk mean his own muscle power, the cel tech, or a combo of both. Did he even know what power stopped Juggs? Can't say either way, so, am I a fanboy still? t:

As for Thor killing Hulk and ticking me off, well, how about if I say Hulk whooped Thor in the Ultimate mobvie and even lifted mjolnir with the 616 enchantment, would that tick you off? t: Or if outside of the King Thor loss, I throw out all the other times Hulk (by his own power) has made Thor look like a lightweight witht he beatings he's given Thor, would that tick you off? t:

 

[rodhulk]

Man I don't even know what this means. Your reply, and I mean this seriously and without any maliciousness, makes no sense at all.

How am I defending Juggs in a way that's similiar to some one posting incomplete scans? Or taking an instance where the character was juiced by outside forces (War Hulk) as an example like it proves a point about the character's abilities? Or even refusing to accept that the character can be beaten?

I don't post incomplete scans of Juggs fights.

I don't claim that anything Trion Juggs does is something that Classic Juggs should be given credit for.

I don't claim that Juggs is unbeatable. Super cosmics would make short work of him. So would any psionic, and very very high end magic users. The Hulk could potentialy over power Juggs but he can't hurt him because he's invulnerable.

So again what's wrong with what I'm doing?

Now this is funny! You said that my post makes no sense at all then go on to answer/reply to what I wrote in my post? How, if it makes no sense?




What are you doing wrong:

1) Not that I really care but when you go and call people fanboys or something to that meaning and include me in there. Where's your evidence to this?

2) You tell Hulk fans that they're fanboys because of the way they speak of the Hulk yet you speak in a similar way of Juggs.



What have I said, Hulk is stronger than Juggs as we know he can (most likely) get stronger than how strong he was when he/Juggs stalemated. Which means as soon as he would get stronger, it should be assumed he outmuscles Juggs. However, Juggs starts alot stronger than Hulk, and since it's really hard to hurt him, a fight between the two could go EITHER WAY. I personally pick the Hulk due to his strength (if he can get there), healing factor, and various ways he could defeat Juggs. If you choose Juggs for your reasons, I won't call you a fanboy cause you've got valid reasons, but so do I in my choosing of the Hulk.

 

[rodhulk]

Quick question for you Rod

call it the fanboy test. Now that you have read WWH X-men #3 and you saw how classic Juggs matched up with WW Hulk.

Yes or No

Can Classic Juggs match up with and stalemate Classic Hulk?

Yes or No?

Actually, I just answered this question my above post. Yes, Juggs can match and stalemate classic Hulk and I'll take it even farther just to make your 'fanboy test' a laugh, classic Juggs can even beat classic Hulk. Doesn't mean he would beat or stalemate classic Hulk, just that he could stalemate or beat classic Hulk. However, I favor the Hulk for the reasons in the above post.

FANBOY test for you:

Can classic Hulk stalemate classic Juggs? Can classic Hulk beat classic Juggs?

 

[DACMAN]

Hulk can't beat Juggs straight up? Already has, and outside of the War Hulk episode.

As for your rif with Dac, that's between you guys. I DON'T agree with everything he says about the Hulk, but I MOST SURELY agree with more things he says than what you say, not that it matters, but still.......

I never said Juggs hasn't beaten the Hulk before. Show me where. This is something you must do cause if you can't, then I guess I'm not as bad as you say I am.

However, the problem witht he statement of Juggs and Hulk's answer is that we know from the past (and to which you agree) Hulk hasn't ALWAYS lost to Juggs.

With War Hulk, can't prove anything with the cel tech or Hulk's power. I take it as both combined. Apoc seemed to indicate it was the cel tech and Hulk (at the moment of the near and possible decapitation of Juggs) said it was HIS power I believe. Did Hulk mean his own muscle power, the cel tech, or a combo of both. Did he even know what power stopped Juggs? Can't say either way, so, am I a fanboy still? t:

As for Thor killing Hulk and ticking me off, well, how about if I say Hulk whooped Thor in the Ultimate mobvie and even lifted mjolnir with the 616 enchantment, would that tick you off? t: Or if outside of the King Thor loss, I throw out all the other times Hulk (by his own power) has made Thor look like a lightweight witht he beatings he's given Thor, would that tick you off? t:

Seriously. If they're gonna bring up out of continuity things, we obviously get to use the time the HULK beat the piss out of Thor, and picked up his hammer with the enchantment. Or the fact the HULK out lives everyone on earth, and every hero. In both The HULK:The End, and the Maestro story.

 

[rodhulk]

how about... HE COULDN"T OVER POWER HIM!

How about...... HE COULD! A little more time, anger, and muscle.....

 

[rodhulk]

Seriously. If they're gonna bring up out of continuity things, we obviously get to use the time the HULK beat the piss out of Thor, and picked up his hammer with the enchantment. Or the fact the HULK out lives everyone on earth, and every hero. In both The HULK:The End, and the Maestro story.

Absolutely! Let's use non-continuity! That's why I mentioned the Ultimates movie.

 

[rodhulk]

The way I see it (now), the HULK stopped him. Which is awesome.

Yeahm that's how I read the issue too. Hulk stopped Juggs. So, it's not really a strength thing with Juggs but a magical thing and Hulk seemed to stop him and without the cel tech.

 

[X]

Seriously. If they're gonna bring up out of continuity things, we obviously get to use the time the HULK beat the piss out of Thor, and picked up his hammer with the enchantment. Or the fact the HULK out lives everyone on earth, and every hero. In both The HULK:The End, and the Maestro story.

Or the one where Thor snapped the Hulk's like a twig.

Or the reality where Thor killed The Hulk and The Thing at the same time with one arm.

Or...

 

[Phenomenal]

Cap's shield is even durable by cosmic standards, to a certain degree.

Cosmics durability isn't all that great, overrated really.

Or the reality where Thor killed The Hulk and The Thing at the same time with one arm.

LOL! I remember that one, didn't Wolverine cut Thor's arm off??

I think that comic was canon also Bwhat I call bad writing!

 

[CBG]

Cosmics durability isn't all that great, overrated really.

Depends on who or what force you measure it against.

LOL! I remember that one, didn't Wolverine cut Thor's arm off??

Yes.

I think that comic was canon also Bwhat I call bad writing!

It's the same as Age of Apocalypse was.

 

[Phenomenal]

Depends on who or what force you measure it against. Yes. It's the same as Age of Apocalypse was.

Yep....I personally think Juggs is the most durable being in marvel NEXT to captain America's shield!

 

[Fading]

Seriously. If they're gonna bring up out of continuity things, we obviously get to use the time the HULK beat the piss out of Thor, and picked up his hammer with the enchantment. Or the fact the HULK out lives everyone on earth, and every hero. In both The HULK:The End, and the Maestro story.

Wasn't King Thor and all the things he did in continuity? Then he went back and changed it. Because Thor was clearly dead in continuity and is back now. I've yet to read that story so not fully sure, but if it's what I'm thinking then it's a hellova lot different than the Ultimates cartoon with different events than what even happened in the Ultimates books.

Edit - Because something actually happening then getting changed is different than an alternate potential future. Like Cables future while alternate hasn't happened in main stream marvel yet. But didn't what Thor went thru actually happen, then Thor changed it back to the way it was before?

 

[CBG]

The Reigning is pretty much as the same situation Age of Apocalypse was.

 

[†~AntiChrist~†]

Not toatally....

 

[bkhedr]

Seriously. If they're gonna bring up out of continuity things, we obviously get to use the time the HULK beat the piss out of Thor, and picked up his hammer with the enchantment. Or the fact the HULK out lives everyone on earth, and every hero. In both The HULK:The End, and the Maestro story.

Missing the point.

I'm not stating that its in continuity. I'm saying that you can't take a feat performed while the character is overcharged by an outside force not standard for that character (ie War Hulk, Trion Juggs, King Thor) then it is incorrect to take that feat and roll with it just because it suits your fancy. (which is exactly what is going on with the War Hulk thing)

 

[bkhedr]

Actually, I just answered this question my above post. Yes, Juggs can match and stalemate classic Hulk and I'll take it even farther just to make your 'fanboy test' a laugh, classic Juggs can even beat classic Hulk. Doesn't mean he would beat or stalemate classic Hulk, just that he could stalemate or beat classic Hulk. However, I favor the Hulk for the reasons in the above post.

FANBOY test for you:

Can classic Hulk stalemate classic Juggs? Can classic Hulk beat classic Juggs?

Can classic Hulk stalemate classic Juggs? Definately

Can classic Hulk beat classic Juggs? Yes and no. He could certainly get strong enough to immobilize him or throw him to the moon or something but he couldn't get strong enough to hurt him or knock him out.

 

[PhotoJones]

Seriously, why do you people keep arguing the same points over and over again?

 

[Fading]

The Reigning is pretty much as the same situation Age of Apocalypse was.

Gotcha. Thanks.

 

[Phenomenal]

Can classic Hulk stalemate classic Juggs? Definately

Can classic Hulk beat classic Juggs? Yes and no. He could certainly get strong enough to immobilize him or throw him to the moon or something but he couldn't get strong enough to hurt him or knock him out.

Yeah I agree.

Hulks' and Juggs battles always went back and forth never really having a victor...

I understand that the crystal is suppose to be a manifestation of Cyttoracks aura, What I don't understand is why doesn't Cyttorack grant Juggs Full power of the Gem? I only remember one-time seeing Trion Juggernaut but I still don't know the extent of his abilities...would he be invincible?

 

[ssj wolverine]

Or the reality where Thor killed The Hulk and The Thing at the same time with one arm.

I read that comic again. It was awesome; giving two powerhouses like Hulk and Thing a deadly asswhipping with one arm. Noone else in MU can make that claim.

 

[Phenomenal]

Dude your sig speaks the TRUTH (barring Gods)!!

 

[Fading]

K haven't got the issue yet, going to try tomorrow...but if I understand right from another thread Hulk didn't actually fight

(Big spoiler)

Spoiler

Blackbolt because he's been revealed to be a Skrull in New Avengers: Illuminati #5, which takes place after WWH, and every member of the Illuminati are alive and unharmed.. Someone else also said that IM whupped a Thor Skrull (not the one from the new series), whereas the Real Thor from the new series whupped Stark very badly. So it appears the current skrulls are far far weaker than their real versions, so Blackbolt Hulk fought is far weaker than Blackbolt we can take from it.

I could be wrong, but just the impression I got from reading others reviews in another thread in the Marvel section. Tomorrow gonna try and see if a copies in at the comic shop. That would change some of the gripes with how that fight was handled in WWH tho.