The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 139

[Deserana]

You should check your sig for advice.

Okay then we should both stop stating our opinion as if fact.

 

[craigdbfan]

I think it's pretty much on the same level as Begins when it comes to cheesiness and technical flaws, and I love Begins and forgive it for most of it's silliness so I can do the same with this. It's my second favorite of the series after TDK. For now at least.

Not for me. Begins was far more concise and tight.

TDKR didn't feel anywhere near as cohesive. I've given all of them a 10 based on the pure enjoyment factor but if I were to get more technical it would probably be, BB: 10/10 TDK: 9/10 TDKR: 8/10.

 

[CJ]

You do realise you are one of a few who felt this way. Many thought it was as good if not better than TDK.

I didn't. I thought it was very underwhelming, boring, flawed, had a terrible villain, Catwoman served almost no purpose in it, and the movie even felt a little bit cheesy at times.

(no offense to anyone who liked it, just my opinion)

That said, I'll probably still pick up the DVD just for the sake of completing the collection.

I did like the first Bat-Pod chase, Bane breaking Batman, and the Football Stadium scene, but everything else.. meh.

 

[herolee10]

Came across this; thought it was pretty funny.lol

 

[CapedCrusader14]

1. The Dark Knight
2. Batman Begins
3. The Dark Knight Rises

Simple as that for me. Same ranking at the Star Wars Original Trilogy for me.

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi

I'd easily rank Rises over Jedi any day of the week though.

 

[Travesty]

Came across this; thought it was pretty funny.lol

 

[Deserana]

Not for me. Begins was far more concise and tight.

TDKR didn't feel anywhere near as tight. I've given all of them a 10 based on the pure enjoyment factor but if I were to get more technical it would probably be, BB: 10/10 TDK: 9/10 TDKR: 8/10.

On the technical side I'd rate BB 8/10 and TDK/TDKR 10/10.

Enjoyment - BB/TDK/TDKR 10/10

Pacing - BB 9/10 TDK 10/10 TDKR 8/10

Story - BB/TDK/TDKR 10/10 (this is just when going through the story points, I think the stories the Nolan's/Goyer came up with are simly amazing)

 

[CapedCrusader14]

On the technical side I'd rate BB 8/10 and TDK/TDKR 10/10.

Enjoyment - BB/TDK/TDKR 10/10

Pacing - BB 9/10 TDK 10/10 TDKR 8/10

Story - BB/TDK/TDKR 10/10 (this is just when going through the story points, I think the stories the Nolan's/Goyer came up with are simly amazing)

Same.

 

[BuddhaWasABat]

For me Begins has the least compelling villain and the worst third act. I find the first and seconds acts great but the final act in Begins is by a long shot the weakest of the three. The overall script is the weakest for me too (FEAR!). I also think Begins has the worst acting of the three, except for Bale as Bruce. That's not to say that Begins has"bad" acting (besides Holmes) because that definitely isn't the case. I just found the casts of the later 2 spectacular all around, besides Modine in Rises.

 

[Mob1423]

Scarecrow had a lot more potential. More than just making people hallucinate, he should've given them real life nightmares. Almost like the Freddy Krueger of Batman

 

[BuddhaWasABat]

Scarecrow has always been one of my least favorite Batman villains, and Begins didn't change that much. He was good choice for a starter villain I guess but I find him very forgettable. I enjoyed Cillians special appearance in Rises more than him as a primary villain in Begins.

 

[enquencle]

On a technical level TDKR has many, many flaws, but after seeing how they shot the prologue,and how almost everything was practical, I just have to give it a 10/10.

 

[craigdbfan]

I never saw Scarecrow as the primary villain. Ra's & the LoS fit that bill for me and Liam's performance in that movie remains to this day understated.

The mob and Scarecrow as peons within the LoS overall plan was done a lot better than their involvement in TDKR. The editing in TDKR never breathes either it feels like it's rushing towards the ending as fast as it can while trying to tell you a story that probably needed better structuring from the onset. The pacing felt better during my second viewing but there are certain points where it meanders on things we shouldn't necessarily even care about. There are some great ideas and ambitions with characters that end up suffering for being brought in too late in the game (Selina and Blake). The breathing room that could have been utilized was taken up by certain characters that in the end brought very little to the table (Talia and Foley).

I was excited for Talia but she was a bit mishandled and felt like a really forced way to tie things back together. If Begins had a problem with fear (which I didn't mind because the execution of said element was done more elegantly) then TDKR had a gaping sinkhole with tying things "full circle" with Begins that otherwise didn't really need to be done (this is coming from one of the few supporters of the LoS returning by the way).

 

[Frodo]

I while BB and TDKR are more comic bookie, imo, for me TDK is the full package. Its the definative Batman film for me . You have Batman vs The Joker, Mob vs Corrupt cops, Two clashing ideologies, A hero without a mask who is turned into villan, A great crime drama that transends the comic book film genre, A scary yet charismatic villan, etc. Everything that I love about Batman is in that film. I enjoy all three , but I still think TDK is still the best in the trilogy and the best comic book film .

 

[Deserana]

I never saw Scarecrow as the primary villain. Ra's & the LoS fit that bill for me and Liam's performance in that movie remains to this day understated.

The mob and Scarecrow as peons within the LoS overall plan was done a lot better than their involvement in TDKR. The editing in TDKR never breathes either it feels like it's rushing towards the ending as fast as it can while trying to tell you a story that probably needed better structuring from the onset. The pacing felt better during my second viewing but there are certain points where it meanders on things we shouldn't necessarily even care about. There are some great ideas and ambitions with characters that end up suffering for being brought in too late in the game (Selina and Blake). The breathing room that could have been utilized was taken up by certain characters that in the end brought very little to the table (Talia and Foley).

I was excited for Talia but she was a bit mishandled and felt like a really forced way to tie things back together. If Begins had a problem with fear (which I didn't mind because the execution of said element was done more elegantly) then TDKR had a gaping sinkhole with tying things "full circle" with Begins that otherwise didn't really need to be done (this is coming from one of the few supporters of the LoS returning by the way).

Completely agree with every word here.

I know people like a compact beginning, middle, end trilogy but IMO TDKR had more than enough content and story tell to be allowed to be fully fleshed out over two films. It could have ended just as Bane says "now martial law is in effect hold your families close for tomorrow you wake up to a new world" *CUT* to Bruce in the prison. That would have been a great tease for the second part.

The first part could have had more Batman and even showing his detective side by trying to figure wout what goes down in the sewers. Had more Selina/Bruce interaction to make her betrayal worse. Then the second act could have started with Bane's speech at blackgate with the montage. The first hour would be split between the occupied Gotham and how the people inside are dealing with it and how bad Gotham gets and the other half of Bruce in prison. Have more focus of Selina's guilt, Blake/Gordon/Foley and there plans on tackling Bane. Also seeing Bane more in the occupied Gotham as we barely see him in the film also more interaction with him and other characters (he has no interaction directly with Blake, Gordon, Foley, Selina and barely Fox or Miranda). Then the final hour is the take back Gotham battle being city-wide and maybe taking place over hours and days.

 

[BuddhaWasABat]

I never saw Scarecrow as the primary villain. Ra's & the LoS fit that bill for me and Liam's performance in that movie remains to this day understated.

The mob and Scarecrow as peons within the LoS overall plan was done a lot better than their involvement in TDKR. The editing in TDKR never breathes either it feels like it's rushing towards the ending as fast as it can while trying to tell you a story that probably needed better structuring from the onset. The pacing felt better during my second viewing but there are certain points where it meanders on things we shouldn't necessarily even care about. There are some great ideas and ambitions with characters that end up suffering for being brought in too late in the game (Selina and Blake). The breathing room that could have been utilized was taken up by certain characters that in the end brought very little to the table (Talia and Foley).

I was excited for Talia but she was a bit mishandled and felt like a really forced way to tie things back together. If Begins had a problem with fear (which I didn't mind because the execution of said element was done more elegantly) then TDKR had a gaping sinkhole with tying things "full circle" with Begins that otherwise didn't really need to be done (this is coming from one of the few supporters of the LoS returning by the way).

I thought the League as puppet masters was explored about as much as it needed to be in Rises. I thought the use of Daggett as a pawn to gain resources was good enough and didn't require any further exploration. That's just my opinion but I felt it was as good as the League using the mob as pawns in Begins.

However, I do agree with you on Talia. I think she was wasted and that is one of my big gripes with the film.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I gave it a 7. Good but very flawed and underwhelming overall. Did not live up to the standards set by the previous two movies, IMO.

Btw I love your avatar.

I knew you would like my avatar. Thanks.

BTW, I don't think that much of BB either. So TDK is the only one in the Nolan franchise I really like.

BB - 6.5

TDK - 8.5

TDKR - 6

Heh. I gave the exact same rating to Raimi's Spidey trilogy.

 

[BuddhaWasABat]

Batman Begins - 8.7/ 10
The Dark Knight - 9.7/ 10
The Dark Knight Rises - 9/ 10

By comparison, my Star Wars ranking is like this

A New Hope 9.2/ 10
Empire Strikes Back - 9.9/ 10 (I never give 10's, 9.9 is my highest. Nothing is perfect)
Return of the Jedi - 7.7/ 10

 

[markjoedelonge]

Completely agree with every word here.

I know people like a compact beginning, middle, end trilogy but IMO TDKR had more than enough content and story tell to be allowed to be fully fleshed out over two films. It could have ended just as Bane says "now martial law is in effect hold your families close for tomorrow you wake up to a new world" *CUT* to Bruce in the prison. That would have been a great tease for the second part.

The first part could have had more Batman and even showing his detective side by trying to figure wout what goes down in the sewers. Had more Selina/Bruce interaction to make her betrayal worse. Then the second act could have started with Bane's speech at blackgate with the montage. The first hour would be split between the occupied Gotham and how the people inside are dealing with it and how bad Gotham gets and the other half of Bruce in prison. Have more focus of Selina's guilt, Blake/Gordon/Foley and there plans on tackling Bane. Also seeing Bane more in the occupied Gotham as we barely see him in the film also more interaction with him and other characters (he has no interaction directly with Blake, Gordon, Foley, Selina and barely Fox or Miranda). Then the final hour is the take back Gotham battle being city-wide and maybe taking place over hours and days.

Yes!!! This would be perfect.

 

[Brother Jack]

However, I do agree with you on Talia. I think she was wasted and that is one of my big gripes with the film.

She's probably the most problematic character in the movie and would have benefited from being more fleshed out, but as a vessel only for revenge I think the character works in the narrative.

 

[Marvolo]

Completely agree with every word here.

I know people like a compact beginning, middle, end trilogy but IMO TDKR had more than enough content and story tell to be allowed to be fully fleshed out over two films. It could have ended just as Bane says "now martial law is in effect hold your families close for tomorrow you wake up to a new world" *CUT* to Bruce in the prison. That would have been a great tease for the second part.

The first part could have had more Batman and even showing his detective side by trying to figure wout what goes down in the sewers. Had more Selina/Bruce interaction to make her betrayal worse. Then the second act could have started with Bane's speech at blackgate with the montage. The first hour would be split between the occupied Gotham and how the people inside are dealing with it and how bad Gotham gets and the other half of Bruce in prison. Have more focus of Selina's guilt, Blake/Gordon/Foley and there plans on tackling Bane. Also seeing Bane more in the occupied Gotham as we barely see him in the film also more interaction with him and other characters (he has no interaction directly with Blake, Gordon, Foley, Selina and barely Fox or Miranda). Then the final hour is the take back Gotham battle being city-wide and maybe taking place over hours and days.

I would have the blackgate speech and the montage of the raids and rich being deposed end the first film. Imagine if you will, the speech and the riots, raids and that whole montage then Bane says "Gotham will survive. Gotham will endure." It cuts to the bomb being loaded into the truck and as the doors close cut to credits. That would be one hell of an ending. Have the second film open with a flyover of a smoking devestated gotham. No music or voices just silence and the shadow of a child scampering quickely into an alley. Show people on the streets in dirty rags burning fires in oil barrels searching for food. Truly show the depravity and devestation by cutting to various interiors and streets and show the hovels the people are living in. A kid draws a batsymbol on a wall. A parent says to come inside and the kid asks his mom where is batman. Then cut to a closeup of the rocky ground and a shadow being dragged along cut to bruce's cut and worn feet and so on from there. Or something along those lines. They could have the arrival of Bruce to the prison in the first movie and the first time we see bruce in the second movie is him training.

 

[Shpati]

I was listening to the score for the Dark Knight Rises. It made me realize how awesome the final scene was. Seeing the people of Gotham encouraged to fight the criminals when Batman saved them from the Tumbler, seeing Foley's dead on the floor, and seeing Batman and Bane looking for each other in that crowd, just two fearless men who want vengeance.

 

[Agent Orange]

While the film could stand for some breathing room I wouldn't have been in favour of it being split into two parts. I hate that.

When I saw Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Pt. 1 in theatres the air was just sucked out of the room when Voldemort raised that wand and the credits hit. You could hear a collective groan in the audience... and folks were well aware that the final book was going to be split into two parts years in advance. Critics were also very lukewarm towards Pt. 1 because of the split. It left them wanting.

Overall, splitting a movie into two parts isn't particularly satisfying until you have your hands on both of the DVD's/Blu-ray's and you can watch them back-to-back.

Rises has some irritating flaws but the finale left me wholly satisfied.

 

[rashad]

My ratings.

BB - 8.5/10
TDK - 10/10
TDKR - 8.8/10

 

[LeoGal83]

TDKR > TDK > BB

Dot.