Before I dig into this one and come out triumphant, the only thing I got "wrong" was about Earle declaring Bruce dead, not Alfred.
Easy mistake. Doesn't mean I need to "rewatch it" again. And I couldn't be paid to watch TDKR again, well, other than the Catwoman scenes.
So . . . here . . . we, GO!
LOL! Really, milost?
Wayne Tower was NOT in the Narrows and the part of the monorail that was affected was NOT trashed in the Narrows.
The train never reached Wayne tower though. Where did the situation begin. Arkham and the Narrows. Not everyone knew of the train's importance and it didn't even reach it's destination.
Remember, inmates, Crane, Gotham ransom. You mustn't forget what Ra's said like you keep continuing to seemingly ignore.
They're questioning someone who's not around, milost? Interesting, hahahaha.
Crane wasn't caught yet, Batman was still looking for him. He's caught in Dark Knight though.
In Batman Begins, Batman, Gordon and the GCPD are looking for CRANE and HALF the inmates that HE freed.
That alone proves my point about all this. Gordon and Co. aren't saying "half the inmates that Ra's or the LoS freed", they're saying "CRANE".
CRANE, CRANE, CRANE, ARKHAM, ARKHAM, ARKHAM, INMATES, INMATES, INMATES.
It doesn't get much more clear than that. Your argument would hold much more water for TDKR and it's lack of explanations if Crane/Scarecrow was never mentioned or appeared again in The Dark Knight. But, there he was.
Who knew that besides Ra's, milost? NOBODY.
Then how come Gordon and everyone are looking for Crane and not Ra's by the end of Batman Begins? How come before that, Gordon is interrogating Crane and not getting any info out of him.
Oh Lordy, milost...to think I thought you were going to be fun to talk to.
And I never said GORDON should know about Ra's. Only that Ra's and the League should have been mentioned somehow
I'm not fun to talk to? That really hurts bro.
But I digress, I gotcha here. Time to yield.
t:
So if Gordon doesn't know about Ra's or the LoS (he doesn't) as a Lt. and being the one involved in directly helping the Narrows situation, it's safe to say that Loeb and the rest of the force wouldn't as well, correct?
Your whole argument wasn't "why LoS and Ra's is never mentioned", you specifically stated an "investigation". LOL Ya messed up there pal.
So if everyone but Batman and Alfred are oblivious to who did what in the Narrows and on that monorail, then why should the League be mentioned. That story, that loose end, is wrapped up.
Again, it's nothing like the Dent thing by the end of TDK. You clearly just used that as an argument because you seem to think the lack of reasoning for how the whole conspiracy even worked is a okay. We don't agree there, never will, no matter how many times we quote each other.
Again, you're twisting my words around by me wanting the LoS to be mentioned
Yeah, because there's really no reason for them to be mentioned. You know it, I know it.
Only Bruce and Alfred are in the know, to everyone else like Gordon and the higher ups, it was a Narrows incident (starting specifically with Arkham) with inmates and Crane involved.
Yah, go with your gut more often. Bringing ONE inmate down is not bringing Gotham back when they still had to take care of the mob that was transferred to another power(Maroni) when Falcone can't do his job anymore. Him telling Gordon that WASN'T just about the Narrows.
I never said it was just Crane? I included Crane because of your fascination with the LoS, Ra's and Narrows events.
Of course there are other problems that need fixing, that's what TDK is all about. LOL
No one knows that and nothing is given to believe that. Crane could have created his own drugs. How in the hell could it be the stuff in the Narrows when it's mentioned in BB that they got ALL OF THE DRUGS IN THE PIPES?
LOL
You need to watch Begins AND Dark Knight again Anno.
Crane's compound is a derivative from the flower. Remember when Bruce clearly states he "felt those effects before" after Scarecrow gassed him. It's because Crane got a hold of it.
If you think the compound in Dark Knight is different, the way the guy is helpless on the ground losing his mind (like Batman, Rachel and everyone in the Narrows), well I don't know what to say. Scarecrow's stuff is clearly the same as the gas in Begins. It's the same stuff Ra's had Bruce breathe in during his training (but not as potent), the same stuff Scarecrow uses on Batman, and the same stuff that he sells in the Dark Knight ("I told you my compound would take you places, I never said they'd be placed you wanted me to go")
Hey, all of SHH. I think Anno has lost his head a bit, tell him I'm right! The guy doesn't even seem to get Scarecrow/Crane's involvement in the first two films!
LOL
Should they have? That's a big ol' YES. They are a big deal even if you say a "secret organization" shouldn't be mentioned, lol.
Nope, it shouldn't because it wouldn't have fit in the Dark Knight. They mention enough events that happened in Begins, practically all of them. A Ra's mention or a LoS mention would have been totally inappropriate and you know it.
Ra's actually is mentioned subtlety with Bruce's "criminals aren't complicated" line to Bruce when he's looking at the Joker on his monitors.
So there you go.
No offense, but you're clearly finding fault with the "no LoS and Ra's" thing as a rebuttal for TDKR's failure with the events that follow TDK. Not sure what you're deal is since you even agree about Reese (which you get into down below). Can't you just admit that, as far as what we're discussing so far, that Begins followed by The Dark Knight succeeds while the events after The Dark Knight to TDKR are sloppy and messy?
I'm not the only one who has ever found fault with it. I don't remember people saying in 2008 that, "OH MY GOD, THIS IS HOW NOLAN FOLLOWS UP BATMAN BEGINS, NO MENTION OF LEAGUE OF SHADOWS?".
Nope, it's clearly different. And even if I was wrong, it's still not as big as how the Dent lie magically worked without any explanation once so ever. Especially when Nolan and Co. made Harvey Dent and the city's response of such important.
Again, Batman cannot be hunted down when he's not around anymore. No one knows who Batman is except for Reese too and you honestly think Reese would tell? Unless you believe they will torture Reese until he spills the beans, or, you know, Reese could say he was only bluffing...but, no, you wouldn't want to think that now, would ya?
Hahahahahahahaha.
"Batman cannot be hunted down when he's not around anymore."
Yes, yes he can. That's like saying, "a criminal can't be hunted because he's not around anymore". Pardon my demeanor, but do you know how stupid that sounds.
And now you've officially fallen back on something that I really haven't done, full blown conjecture. You've just lost your argument. Before, we were in agreement about Reese, but now you've totally "explained" that one too, just like you did with Ramirez.
Point of the matter is, it's never explained, and it should have been. TDKR simply sidesteps it. That's a fact. It gives us the AFTERMATH, 8 years into the future conveniently , but it never says how.
If you don't think it's important, but you're a fan of The Dark Knight, well, I guess I'm speechless.
Viral marketing that once again, is not canon when I don't pay attention to it, nor do the majority which is the general audience. Sad to think you're putting so much into it, lol.
Alright then. And no, I'm not putting too much thought into it, I'm just saying how it is.
So when people outside of the Narrows see the train past, such as Loeb, you think he's hallucinating when his mind isn't ****ed up? Lol, oh how I enjoy how you reach there, milost.
Hahaha, me reaching?
You're the one that supposedly thinks that Loeb sees the train or cares about it.
And creating untold scenarios for not just Ramirez, but Reese now too.
Back to the Narrows situation, the fact of the matter is, the only guys that are really concerned about the train or see it is the old guy at Wayne Tower and the dude that's with him.
Hahaha, you want reaching, how about the explanation that, CRANE AND THE INMATES WERE A PART OF THE TRAIN SITUATION!
Let's remember, they didn't find anything considering the damn thing blew up. There's also, again, that conversation that you just love (or continue to disregard) between Gordon and Batman at the end of Begins.
Don't buy it then, you'd be only one person to NOT to, milost, lol.
Alright?
Majority, minority? Who cares? This is how I feel (or, from your perspective, how you feel).
There isn't a right or wrong here.
He should have told his "greatest student" that he was really Ra's al Ghul before he talks about ex-communicating someone
No, that's different.
But not even Talia? He mentions his wife, why not the daughter that he found, but also lost later?
Point of the matter is, as far as Batman Begins, the 2005 story, and film are considered, Bane and Talia don't exist. They simply don't. Nolan and Goyer didn't have them in their head when they made it, so that's actually true. That's my point.
Hold up, did you REALLY think I meant they did the EXACT plan as shown in TDKR before when I mentioned the LoS did the financial route earlier with Gotham City before BB's events?
Of course not.
If you find it matters, then great. To me, it doesn't. It's a dirty cop that has everything to lose and nothing to gain in telling the truth and when she isn't shown during that montage, it looked as if she just left her job as a detective.
Obviously it doesn't matter to you, which is why we're having the conversation we're having now.
Your only fault with TDKR is the fact that it's not longer (which you also defend with conjecture by saying it was the IMAX running time). So I think we both know how you feel and how you'll continue to feel here, no matter what anyone thinks or states, right or wrong.
Good for you. I mean it. That's not sarcasm. That's the way you roll I guess and that's fine. You like TDKR, you find it to be mostly fault free. Good for you.
I found TDK to be just as flawed, but I don't make much of a ruckus as some with TDKR, lol. And I can go with the flow of the idea of Gordon making Batman to be a bad guy because it had to work for Gordon and Batman to agree on that lie. If not, then the ending of TDK is pointless.
I don't agree.
There's a reason more and more people rip TDKR in terms of story and plot, and let me tell you, it ain't "hating to hate". There are reasons for it.
Never had that problem with The Dark Knight.
Indeed. Now, unless you say you loved Spider-Man 3...lol.
Nope. Spider-man 3 was just as disappointing as TDKR. Both of them aren't as good as what preceded them. Not by a long shot.
They're not failures by any means, but they are disappointments imo.
I wouldn't say most thought that at all. I saw it as something was going to happen to Loeb for Gordon to get that spot and I'm glad it showed in TDK.
I didn't say most either. Hahahahahaha.
I try to avoid hyperbole.
Goes back to that "Batman isn't around so we can't hunt him" nonsense that you continue to bring up.
Before, Batman was almost mystical. By the end of TDK, everyone knows he's a man (thanks to the Joker).
Last time I checked, you can hunt a person, even if they go into hiding. Especially if you're GCPD.