The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - Part 152

[Shikamaru]

If the current DCCU remains the same level of quality as MOS, then Bale was right to leave.

Absolutely this.

Same goes for Nolan.

 

[Tequilla]

Bale will come back as an older Batman. After the superhero genre collapses in itself.

Mark my words !

 

[BatLobster]

From Empire's interview with Bale:

Aw, Bale.

 

[Ryan]

Short interview with Jennifer Lawrence talking about batman, the dark knight and dark knight rises

http://ca.ign.com/videos/2014/11/19/jennifer-lawrence-says-nothing-beats-the-dark-knight

 

[The Joker]

Short interview with Jennifer Lawrence talking about batman, the dark knight and dark knight rises

http://ca.ign.com/videos/2014/11/19/jennifer-lawrence-says-nothing-beats-the-dark-knight

Mystique has good taste

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Nice to hear that Christian still has alot of love for Batman... I would have welcomed him back for a 4th film in a heartbeat.

Oh, well... there's always that Batman Beyond idea down the line.

 

[NoLaNitE007]

If the current DCCU remains the same level of quality as MOS, then Bale was right to leave.

Yeah....like MOS was just horribly bad.

 

[shauner111]

To be fair, i really think Batman v Superman and Justice League will be much better than MOS. And i dont think MOS was a bad movie. That's reserved for movies like Green Lantern, Batman & Robin. DC movies like that. But it wasn't spectacular either. Of course some think TDKR was just OK, while i think it was spectacular. Nevertheless the film-making was still fantastic and i can't really say the same about MOS. And so Nolan/Bale shouldn't settle for anything less.

Terrio and Affleck are the reasons why Batman v Superman & Justice League can really be leagues above Man Of Steel. So if Bale agreed to return for Snyder, it's likely that Goyer would have remained the writer, and so we would have something on the level of MOS. Perhaps even worse.

So Bale made the right choice to shut his mouth and let the news of Batfleck just happen. Nolan made the right choice too. Interstellar showed me that ill be content, forever, with him just making original films for the rest of his career. If he ends up making a James Bond movie as soon as Daniel Craig exits the role, ill be fine with that. As long as it's a one-off. But i would prefer he stays away from franchises.

 

[Two-Face]

Well I think Bale/Nolan don't exist in the current DCCU. If Bale came back that means Nolanverse is in the same universe as Synderverse/DCCU.

I would have loved seeing 4th film Bale as Batman or spin off Batman (Bale) vs Superman (Cavill) but I actually look forward to seeing Affleck's Batman

 

[shauner111]

Bale will come back as an older Batman. After the superhero genre collapses in itself.

Mark my words !

You're so optimistic about this

It's awesome. I dont think it will happen but never say never. Time can do wonders. The superhero genre will collapse in about 10 years time. Mark my words folks. We're living in the golden age, and will continue to do so for the next several years, but fatigue will set in. And that's not some random thing some fans have been saying the last two years, which never made sense, considering these huge team-ups were only heating up. A full-on DC vs Marvel war, with Sony & Fox exhausting their properties in the meantime in order to play catch-up. That's what i call the golden era but it's also the beginning of the end. Because you're left with close to nothing when the war settles down.

Fatigue is inevitable but a long ways off. And that's just the right amount of time Nolan needs to cool off from the genre, and make film after film by himself. So you could be right Tequilla. We could see Warner Brothers trying to get a fourth film out of them. With Keaton's likely success with Birdman, they could crawl back to him for one more. Anything is possible.

 

[shauner111]

Well I think Bale/Nolan don't exist in the current DCCU. If Bale came back that means Nolanverse is in the same universe as Synderverse/DCCU.

I would have loved seeing 4th film Bale as Batman or spin off Batman (Bale) vs Superman (Cavill) but I actually look forward to seeing Affleck's Batman

The current DCCU will not last forever like Marvel's. It will have an end. They will reboot Batman and Superman eventually. It'll either happen in the 2020's or by 2030 the latest, but it will happen.

So if they ever return, it would be a way for WB to say "Phew, we dont want to reboot Batman again after Affleck. Not this soon. So it'll be a separate universe, but ultimately a sequel". Which is why i think they'll be trying this with Keaton when it comes time for a Batman Beyond. Even before they think of Bale. It's a way to do a sequel to a Batman universe that happened decades ago, without rebooting so soon after Affleck.

 

[BatLobster]

I think part of Bale's reaction might just be a result of how quickly it all happened. TDKR had only been out for a year when the announcements of BvS and later Affleck came. It probably made the reality sink in that much faster that his run was truly over and the door was closed for him to return (at least for a very long time).

It's bittersweet, but it is cool to know Bale still gives a damn. He even said in pre-TDKR interviews that he'd be open to a fourth one. This just shows that he really meant it.

 

[shauner111]

He always wanted to do a fourth one. Bale said he would jump at the chance if Nolan told him they had a story to tell.

Because of the happy ending, i dont think Nolan will give in. I can totally see from his perspective, how a 4th movie being thrown on the table could feel like a cheap way to get Bale back in the suit in order to achieve an easy billion dollars at the box-office. That's how it sounds right away doesn't it? But a Batman Beyond idea dangled in front of Chris' nose one day? That could get his attention because Bale wouldn't need to be Batman. He could do some neat cameos with Hathaway, Oldman and JGL with something like that. Gordon in the age-range that Alfred and Lucius were when they started Begins. Selina and Blake as "middle-aged" characters with that "life" behind them. Bruce having the same history but is now at the age Gordon was when he was the city's Commissioner, which is the age Ras Al Ghul was when he trained Bruce. This could mirror Bruce training a younger man at that similar stage in his life.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Part of me thinks, he's Nolan's Batman and they should come as a package deal.

But then, the fan in me would gladly welcome him back in any capacity. Truthfully, I shocked Bale is as warm about the character as he is.

 

[JackWhite]

Part of me thinks, he's Nolan's Batman and they should come as a package deal.

But then, the fan in me would gladly welcome him back in any capacity. Truthfully, I shocked Bale is as warm about the character as he is.

I was sold on Bale's appreciation for the character during that Charlie Rose interview right before BB's release. It's why I know there has to be more interviews with Bale talking about how he played the character. Hopefully one day they see the light of day...

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Maybe if WB wants to release them for the super special anniversary edition with 5 more minutes of BTS footage for a 3D Re-release

 

[Brother Jack]

In terms of Nolan's story there was really nowhere to go after Rises, at least not with Bale in the costume. And then Man of Steel was clearly not in the same universe as TDK trilogy so there was no legitimate option for Bale continuing. Him being Batman in DC's cinematic universe would have just been confusing. I for one would much rather have a great, self-contained trilogy with him than to drag it out past what it was intended to be.

 

[JackWhite]

In terms of Nolan's story there was really nowhere to go after Rises, at least not with Bale in the costume. And then Man of Steel was clearly not in the same universe as TDK trilogy so there was no legitimate option for Bale continuing. Him being Batman in DC's cinematic universe would have just been confusing. I for one would much rather have a great, self-contained trilogy with him than to drag it out past what it was intended to be.

 

[Tequilla]

You're so optimistic about this

It's awesome. I dont think it will happen but never say never. Time can do wonders. The superhero genre will collapse in about 10 years time. Mark my words folks. We're living in the golden age, and will continue to do so for the next several years, but fatigue will set in. And that's not some random thing some fans have been saying the last two years, which never made sense, considering these huge team-ups were only heating up. A full-on DC vs Marvel war, with Sony & Fox exhausting their properties in the meantime in order to play catch-up. That's what i call the golden era but it's also the beginning of the end. Because you're left with close to nothing when the war settles down.

Fatigue is inevitable but a long ways off. And that's just the right amount of time Nolan needs to cool off from the genre, and make film after film by himself. So you could be right Tequilla. We could see Warner Brothers trying to get a fourth film out of them. With Keaton's likely success with Birdman, they could crawl back to him for one more. Anything is possible.

I am. t: Because these stuff is always a cycle. Right now everybody wants go put the hand in the jar. And they are saturating the market with the same thing over and over and over. Not only it will cool down , but there will be a detachment from the audience.

After a while , studios will look back and think , "hey maybe we can revive this. It's very different from what is done now , and people loved it". This happened so many times with different genres , different eras , etc.

Bale will be older. It will be very appropriate !

 

[BH/HHH]

You're so optimistic about this

It's awesome. I dont think it will happen but never say never. Time can do wonders. The superhero genre will collapse in about 10 years time. Mark my words folks. We're living in the golden age, and will continue to do so for the next several years, but fatigue will set in. And that's not some random thing some fans have been saying the last two years, which never made sense, considering these huge team-ups were only heating up. A full-on DC vs Marvel war, with Sony & Fox exhausting their properties in the meantime in order to play catch-up. That's what i call the golden era but it's also the beginning of the end. Because you're left with close to nothing when the war settles down.

Fatigue is inevitable but a long ways off. And that's just the right amount of time Nolan needs to cool off from the genre, and make film after film by himself. So you could be right Tequilla. We could see Warner Brothers trying to get a fourth film out of them. With Keaton's likely success with Birdman, they could crawl back to him for one more. Anything is possible.

I really don't think it will crash, I think there will come a point where we aren't getting quite as many but in no way do I think it will crash. Its a genre that has many many different types of characters. These films can be so different to one another that they don't feel like just another superhero film. I am expecting there to be more CBMs that aren't superheroes though.

But I do get what you're saying.

As for a fourth Dark Knight film in say 10 years time aslong as the right people are still alive then I coul see it and I'd be well up for it. They'd have to be careful to not retread ground they did in Rises though which was about the Dark Knight returning. Maybe we would finally get Nolan's take on the Riddler? Why would Bruce be back? What would happen to Blake? So many possibilities.

 

[Victarion]

The Catwoman concept looks a bit too similar to Burton's Catwoman. Judging from the concept art, it looks like Nolan wanted some hard sci-fi, which would give TDKR even more of a DKR feel. Now, my biggest criticism of TDKR is that it trims back on what, realistically, would be a very violent and morally murky scenario in Bane's revolution.

Otherwise, I feel this quote by Herman Melville is appropriate: "It is better to fail in originality than succeed in imitation." The failing being that we didn't get to see the full scope of the revolution, though the trade-off came in focusing more on the themes tied to the characters and less on showing brutal violence for shock value.

MoS: What worked and what didn't? Two things stand out: Goyer's dialogue and Pa Kent's death scene. I couldn't really find a way to reconcile the death scene with the movie's themes or character development, and we're all familiar with the heavy handedness of Goyer's writing.

 

[shauner111]

The Catwoman concept looks a bit too similar to Burton's Catwoman. Judging from the concept art, it looks like Nolan wanted some hard sci-fi, which would give TDKR even more of a DKR feel. Now, my biggest criticism of TDKR is that it trims back on what, realistically, would be a very violent and morally murky scenario in Bane's revolution.

Otherwise, I feel this quote by Herman Melville is appropriate: "It is better to fail in originality than succeed in imitation." The failing being that we didn't get to see the full scope of the revolution, though the trade-off came in focusing more on the themes tied to the characters and less on showing brutal violence for shock value.

MoS: What worked and what didn't? Two things stand out: Goyer's dialogue and Pa Kent's death scene. I couldn't really find a way to reconcile the death scene with the movie's themes or character development, and we're all familiar with the heavy handedness of Goyer's writing.

Not only that the idea of Pa Kent dying the way he did, just didn't make any sense so it became laughable. What son would just refuse to save his father just because his dad goes "Nope"? Any son would saved him anyway. And the worst part was that Clark could have easily got the dog himself and quickly vanished into the field where nobody would see. Even if he didn't know the full extent of his powers at the time, he could have ran normally since his leg wouldn't be caught in the car door like a doofus.

And ya i like that quote you posted. I agree. But let's pray for a director's cut at some point.

I am. t: Because these stuff is always a cycle. Right now everybody wants go put the hand in the jar. And they are saturating the market with the same thing over and over and over. Not only it will cool down , but there will be a detachment from the audience.

After a while , studios will look back and think , "hey maybe we can revive this. It's very different from what is done now , and people loved it". This happened so many times with different genres , different eras , etc.

Bale will be older. It will be very appropriate !

Yeah, these team-ups will all be the same too. Most of them anyway. That's why i hope Justice League #1 does away with the alien invasion and goes ahead with a Legion of Doom vs JL story. And then the League takes the invasion out to Darkseid instead of how it's traditionally done.

You're right but they may beat us to the punch with Keaton.

I really don't think it will crash, I think there will come a point where we aren't getting quite as many but in no way do I think it will crash. Its a genre that has many many different types of characters. These films can be so different to one another that they don't feel like just another superhero film. I am expecting there to be more CBMs that aren't superheroes though.

But I do get what you're saying.

As for a fourth Dark Knight film in say 10 years time aslong as the right people are still alive then I coul see it and I'd be well up for it. They'd have to be careful to not retread ground they did in Rises though which was about the Dark Knight returning. Maybe we would finally get Nolan's take on the Riddler? Why would Bruce be back? What would happen to Blake? So many possibilities.

Sony and Fox (especially Sony) will have nothing by the time the next decade begins. Spidey will always be an option but they're going to kill it and need a long break. Marvel needs to survive as a studio, so they'll keep em' coming but the numbers will go down, people will be exhausted. Ideas? I dont know about you but i dont see Thor movies, Cap movies, being made once that last movie hits with Thanos. A lot of the smaller characters will have their films going until the early part of the 2020's, but even that won't last too long. There's only so much you can do once these actors bail out. An Avengers 4 will probably happen but with a younger group, and so i dont think that's going to be the hit they think it's going to be.

The genre won't crash and die for several years. But it will be on life-support for a while. Audience exhaustion coupled with writers block. I'll bet anything on it in 10 years time. Marvel & DC are blowing their load so to speak all at once, in the span of 6 years. Without thinking of the future.

The Batfleck movies may make crazy dough. Or it won't be well received. Chances are it will be praised by all. Loved. But it will have an ending once Affleck bails. And so they have the option to do prequels, reboot once again (may as well call them prequels no?), or go back to a past Bat-actor. What's the best for business? I think prequels could work but i think that strangles the actor in the role with constant comparisons to the older Affleck. I personally don't like the idea anymore. The reboot, in a new stand-alone universe, with a younger Batman is going to happen again eventually. Probably in a horror looking Gotham. But it's the worst idea ever to do this directly after Affleck. You'll have some fans rolling their eyes "jesus christ, they're announcing ANOTHER REBOOT? How many reboots is this now? Three?". Push that back. Let WB indulge in an older Bruce from the past like Keaton or Bale for a Batman Beyond. Something along those lines. Then after a while of not getting Bruce as Batman in the movie world, people will be begging for a younger Bruce who is BATMAN.

Another thing, is we're all assuming every Justice League and solo movie from DC will be a hit. A lot of these solo movies may straight up bomb. Justice League, as a sequel, has potential to do great or just "decent" numbers. If they take it into a third film, it could bomb if they don't have key players like Batman or Superman involved much.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

So I thought of this the other day and I wanna know what some of you think.

Personally I find Rises just good. I do think Nolan played it a little so safe bringing the League of Shadows back.

Bane and Talia and the League shouldn't have been the villains. Bane and Talia did nothing that Ra's didn't do it Begins. I think Riddler really should have been the villain. Think about it. Keeping the Dent Act and peace in Gotham, we have Riddler testing Gotham with how much they know the city. Think of Riddler revealing the cover up of Harvey's death, think of it if there was a camera in the vault that Joker stole from the bank in Knight and Riddler released a recording of Batman and Gordon saying "Joker can wait" knowing they could have stopped him sooner. He plays the city's citizens against the rich and in power. Also Nolan never used a villain to mentally challenge Batman and Riddler would have been perfect.

I also think Bruce in TDKR was bad. I didn't mind Batman retiring but didn't like Bruce retiring. I understand Batman is not needed but Bruce Wayne could be needed. And then in the middle of the film Bane sticks him in a cave. I get the symbolism but that doesn't mean like it.

 

[BatLobster]

Bane and Talia did nothing that Ra's didn't do? So Ra's led a revolution and held the city hostage for 5 months? Ra's and his men threw the rich out on the streets, held kangaroo court hearings and let the city rot slowly away as they awaited the nuclear annihilation of every single Gothamite? I must've missed that part in Begins.

It's easy to see how The Riddler could've worked, people were writing fanfic about it back in 2009-10, but that's not the direction they chose. I'm sure it was considered.

To me, Riddler would've brought a political espionage angle to the film. Which could've been cool. But Bane/Talia brought the war angle to the film, which it really needed in order to play on the grand scale the finale needed to be on. Yeah, it brought the story full circle but it also pushed things further and raised the stakes in a way that the movie desperately needed after the absolute carnage of The Joker.

 

[Travesty]

He's not saying he literally did the exact same acts, he's talking his overall plan. The only difference, is Talia was motivated by revenge, and Bane was just a lackey.