The Topher Grace/ Eddie Brock Thread

[Uber Venom]

He looked good. The spider emblem should've been a bit brighter, though. If I recall corectly, they made the emblem really white on the back of the DVD. I don't have it, so I can't check, I could be wrong.

 

[Blader5489]

Venom is one of the most elaborate characters to ever grace a comic book. At times he has been emotionally weak, vicious, self-defeating, selfish and egotistical. Yet all these aspects of his character exist with a side of him that's loyal, gentle, loving, brave and funny. He blows away most other characters in terms of his depth.

LOL! Absolutely not.

The bottom line is that there is no depth to Venom; there is no reason for him to do what he is doing. There has never been a sufficient enough backstory to explain why he does what he does. "Daddy didn't love me" and "I have cancer" are not only cliches, but also add nothing to the character. Eddie's "depth" is really just shallow and forced sympathy.

Hell, just look at Eddie's reason for becoming Venom in the first place. He indirectly lost his job because Spider-Man stopped a serial killer? And he jumps from that to "protector of innocence"? WTF?! There is no reason for any of this, and such reasons have never been given.

The only story to ever give Eddie justice in terms of depth was "The Last Temptation of Eddie Brock." Now that is character development, as it explores Eddie's psyche and sheds light on some of his motivations and twisted reasoning. But other than that, Venom has been a shallow marketing ploy, not a character.

 

[E.Brock]

wowww you have him all figured out...thats an interesting opinion of venom but thats all it is. Do you realize how easy it is to pick apart a character you don't particularly like...venom's / eddie's back story is as credible as any other comic book character. Plenty of reasons have been givin for his actions especially why he became a protector of the innocent and please dont mention cliches..thats what comics do..there are a million of the same variation of characters in dc and marvel and so on. If anything venom is one of the more unique characters..no one looks like him. No one shares anything similar to his back story.. at least any known heroes/villians. Carnage on the other hand is deff a marketing ploy. Banking off the popularity of venom no doubt but not venom. I love the fact that people consider him a marketing ploy because he has reached the same popularity level as most of the main marvel heroes. Thus pissing off the oldschool villian fans who just werent visually stimulating or threateing enough to get where venom is. didnt spell check just typed

 

[E.Brock]

he just hasnt been put in any good writers hands for a longgg time...your right about the last temptation which i would love to see more of.

PEOPLE DONT LIKE VENOM BECAUSE IN A SENCE HES STILL A BABY....he became to popular for his own good too fast (not in my opinion) but i do believe thats why people dnt like the character...see how long any one of spidermans villians would last if they recieved thier own series. Venom had to change to keep his series going..they wanted to make him a stand alone character that had other problems then killing spiderman thus the lethal protector and series after that which i admit didnt always have the best writers but there is a reason venom got his own book and not rhino.

venom is with out a shout of doubt the largest single most threat to spiderman, the most physically dominating, and gets the most personel. NO villian toys with him the way venom does, and with such a smug security knowing he always has the advantage.Spidey has said it himself!!..not to mention Mary jane pisses her pants if a thought venom crosses her mind.
he was wrote this way and thats who hes is.....not a marketing ploy

 

[E.Brock]

 

[DACrowe]

Venom is one of the most elaborate characters to ever grace a comic book. At times he has been emotionally weak, vicious, self-defeating, selfish and egotistical. Yet all these aspects of his character exist with a side of him that's loyal, gentle, loving, brave and funny. He blows away most other characters in terms of his depth.

No....those are all contradictory elements introduced by each new writer who trying to make Venom an interesting character and each failed more miserably than the last (until maybe Paul Jenkins and JMS recently).

I mean each of these "new layers" was added because writers knew Brock was a lame character whose motive was one of the more pathetic in comicdom. "I used a source that lied to me about being a serial killer, and then the real serial killer was captured by Spider-Man...Curse you, I don't blame myself, the guy who lied to me or the serial killer but the hero of the story, why? BECAUSE I'M WRITTEN THAT WAY!!!!"

It is so contrived and from there things only got worse. I mean in one story he saves a family from some thugs and afterwards says "Good luck, you are pure and innocent, but I had my innocence stolen from me a long time ago, and I need revenge" or something along those lines. He sounds like a rape victim?!?! And then he becomes an anti-hero because he is os popular to look at, not because he needed to be one.

At the end o the day Venom is a cool looking visual. Nothing more. He is liked because he is "the evil Spider-Man," but no story actually took that angle except Sargent and Raimi in SM3. For that I would say even though he was underdeveloped (I guess accurate adapting there ), that was a better iteration of him than the comics. I'd say TAS is the only one who made Brock a good character though.

But we're talking the comics here and Brock has always been shallow and every time they try to had a new excuse ("my daddy hated me...my wife left me and died...I have cancer!") it feels more contrived than the last. I even said the Venom story that Jenkins did was pretty solid, but even that was nothing compared to the Doc Ock story: Countdown and GG story: Death in the Family.

The only great Venom story (besides his second appearance in #317) is Spider-Man: Reign, which is more of a What If and Brock was nowhere to be found.

 

[DACrowe]

he just hasnt been put in any good writers hands for a longgg time...your right about the last temptation which i would love to see more of.

PEOPLE DONT LIKE VENOM BECAUSE IN A SENCE HES STILL A BABY....he became to popular for his own good too fast (not in my opinion) but i do believe thats why people dnt like the character...see how long any one of spidermans villians would last if they recieved thier own series. Venom had to change to keep his series going..they wanted to make him a stand alone character that had other problems then killing spiderman thus the lethal protector and series after that which i admit didnt always have the best writers but there is a reason venom got his own book and not rhino.

venom is with out a shout of doubt the largest single most threat to spiderman, the most physically dominating, and gets the most personel. NO villian toys with him the way venom does, and with such a smug security knowing he always has the advantage.Spidey has said it himself!!..not to mention Mary jane pisses her pants if a thought venom crosses her mind.
he was wrote this way and thats who hes is.....not a marketing ploy

What you describe is a concept of a character, and not an actual character. I'd also argue that Doc Ock and Lizard are much more visually stimulating villains than Venom. Heck in the movie Venom got one uped by not only Doc Ock, but Sandman in visuals. And if they got one thing close for the Venom fanboys, it's the look of the character (besides size).

As for Venom being "the most dangerous and personal villain to Spidey," I'd have to heavily disagree with that. It's simply bollocks whenall he has ever done is go "I'm going to kill you and if you don't defeat me again I imight hurt a loved one," but other than smashing BC's face in (but not seriously injuring her) he has done **** to the supporting cast.

He is all talk and no game. Compare that to EITHER Green Goblin. Those are the ones that are personal. Those are the ones that haunts Peter's dreams. Norman is the boogeyman of Peter Parker's life. He killed Gwen Stacy, he set one hell of a legacy that his son and several other knock offs followed that ****ed up Peter's life royally as well, he came back to mastermind the clone saga, kill Peter's daughter and put one of Peter's few remaining great friends into paralysis after faking him to being in a drunk driving accident. He even drugged Spider-Man to become Green Goblin for a time. And if you want to bring in the bad stories he "hired an actress to play Aunt May," and spearheaded the largest manhunt on Spidey in comics yet that caused him to hide under different identities for a while. Yeah, bad stories but they were there.

And Harry was even more personal because this used to be his best friend. Near the end MJ didn't know when she saw Harry if he was going to try and kill her or hug her. He was their unstable friend who tormented Peter and brought a new meaning to mindgames until Peter was at the end of his ropes ready to snap and almost hit MJ. He ****ed up Peter's life royally before dying saving Peter no less.

What did Venom do compared to these two characters? Oh, he scared MJ once and made a bunch of empty threats. ooooooooooooh. So scary.

Why do you think even the Spidey character laughs at Venom when he sees him now? I remember one story where Venom takes over the Bugle to kill Jameson (which doesn't make sense because they never had any connection in the comics, but the writers must've realized TAS did it ber too) and Spidey just walks in and is like "oh, hi Eddie" and gets Ben Urich to defeat him with a ciggerette LIGHTER!

I'm sorry in 10 minutes of villain-y screentime Raimi did more to make Venom a great villain than the comics ever did. He was the polar opposite of Pete, the dopplenganger realized which was what the visual always needed to be anyway and in those ten minutes he killed Harry Osborn, Peter's best friend turned worst enemy (yep, Harry outshined both villains in SM3) turned friend again. Be thankful, if in 10 minutes he was "You stole my innocence but I'm still a good guy after I'm done killing you," he would've been laughed off the screen.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Well, in any case.

What did you folks think of the design of the Venom suit? Personally, I liked the design they used. I really liked how they portrayed the distorted version of the black spidey suit. I remember a long time ago, people said Venom could only be done in CGI. But here, it seems it was mostly actor in black suit, and little CGI. Plus, I also loved the symbiote effects.

I loved the suit. It worked perfectley on film and I agree, I really love the fact that thry made Venom's costume sort of a distorted version of the black suit because that's literally what it is. It's hatred from two different things combining, which really is so cool if you think about it.

 

[omid17]

I loved the suit. It worked perfectley on film and I agree, I really love the fact that thry made Venom's costume sort of a distorted version of the black suit because that's literally what it is. It's hatred from two different things combining, which really is so cool if you think about it.

agreed, it would have been nice if the emblem was just a lil bit brighter, but still the costume and the venoms face looked great in the movie

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

agreed, it would have been nice if the emblem was just a lil bit brighter, but still the costume and the venoms face looked great in the movie

The color of emblem makes movie Venom even more creepy and cool, whcih is what he should be.

 

[omid17]

The color of emblem makes movie Venom even more creepy and cool, whcih is what he should be.

i agree but it was really hard trying to see the eblem on him in the movie

 

[omid17]

the first leaked SM3 script was pretty cool, i think its because Venom had more scenes. some cool things i remeber was how they were going to have a scene with pete and gwen walking together on a rainy day, then Venom attacks him, so pete had no suit he had to put on his hoody, there was another cool part where the cops captured the symbiote, then they put it in this container the had "VENOM" labeled on it. pretty cool stuff

 

[I'm Venom]

What did you folks think of the design of the Venom suit? Personally, I liked the design they used. I really liked how they portrayed the distorted version of the black spidey suit. I remember a long time ago, people said Venom could only be done in CGI. But here, it seems it was mostly actor in black suit, and little CGI. Plus, I also loved the symbiote effects.

I didn't like the design they used. It would've been nice if Venom was all black with a brighter spider emblem on his chest and back with the legs connecting at the sides of his body and without the distorted webbing pattern, but Venom's face in the movie looked great.

I didn't like Venom's voice either. It would've been nice if they hadn't done Venom's voice altogether and just had the symbiote pull back the "mask" and allow Eddie/Topher to talk in his normal voice everytime Venom talked instead and referred to himself as "we" instead of "I".

Eddie (after the symbiote pulls back the "mask"): We want him dead too, Flint. That's why we've been looking for you. We know all about you, like the fact that Spider-Man won't let you help your poor daughter. That just doesn't seem right to us. Look, we want to kill Spider-Man, you want to kill Spider-Man. Together, he doesn't stand a chance. Interested?


Eddie: Hey, Parker!

Peter: My God, Eddie!

Eddie: Our spider sense is tingling, if you know what we're talking about!


Peter: We can find a way to settle this.

Eddie: You're right. We're thinking humiliation. How's that sound, tiger?


Also, the only sound Venom should've made when fully covered in the symbiote was whenever he roared or screamed. It would've made Venom even more creepy.

 

[Blader5489]

the first leaked SM3 script was pretty cool, i think its because Venom had more scenes. some cool things i remeber was how they were going to have a scene with pete and gwen walking together on a rainy day, then Venom attacks him, so pete had no suit he had to put on his hoody, there was another cool part where the cops captured the symbiote, then they put it in this container the had "VENOM" labeled on it. pretty cool stuff

Do you have a link?

 

[omid17]

Do you have a link?

no they took it off a few days later. To tell you the truth, that script got me really pumped up for the movie

 

[DACrowe]

I just would've had Venom do more, I think his look was fine. I would def. preferred if the team up was after Sandman had visited his daughter in the hospital and then floats down to the alley to have Eddie waiting for him who then turns into Venom and threatens to go up there and kill his daughter if Fllint doesn'st take his offer. Probably the scene on the porch with the Stacys, **** it'd be cool if he got put in his place by Cap. Stacy in that scene and maybe instead of annoying reporters it was Stacy trying to save the girl that is being held hostage and...nah too complicated. But Venom needed more.

I liked his screech, I just wish when the symbiote was on the screech and Grace's voice combined to be the voice of Venom. Like after the happy line the symbiote is taking over his face again and it slowly distorts to "We are...[que screeching noise] Venom!!!!"

That would have gotten an applaud from the audience and the character just needed that badass moment. But him being a third act villain? Made sense. I thought the whole movie had uneven pacing, but I agree with saving Venom for the third act. Just would have developed Brock more and given Venom some more menacing moments.

 

[IamProdigy]

agreed, it would have been nice if the emblem was just a lil bit brighter, but still the costume and the venoms face looked great in the movie

The suit was okay; I thought the raised webbing would bug me, but it didn't, although the spider emblem was so dark and they made it bright for the DVD cover(the back)? That was just dumb, his emblem should've been that bright in the damn movie. Plus, just something about his head...it looked too small and I wouldn't have mind if he talked with his tongue slithering out too, imo.

the first leaked SM3 script was pretty cool, i think its because Venom had more scenes. some cool things i remeber was how they were going to have a scene with pete and gwen walking together on a rainy day, then Venom attacks him, so pete had no suit he had to put on his hoody, there was another cool part where the cops captured the symbiote, then they put it in this container the had "VENOM" labeled on it. pretty cool stuff

I heard about a script like this too, but mostly about the captured symbiote...but it was Dr. Connors who ended up capturing the suit using some kind of sonar weapon that Ben Reilly created(the doctor who was casted as the doctor working for Flint Marko, in earlier versions of the script, he would be Ben Reilly, a partner working for Dr. Connors, ala Ultimate Spider-Man again).

 

[Venom 1988]

the first leaked SM3 script was pretty cool, i think its because Venom had more scenes. some cool things i remeber was how they were going to have a scene with pete and gwen walking together on a rainy day, then Venom attacks him, so pete had no suit he had to put on his hoody, there was another cool part where the cops captured the symbiote, then they put it in this container the had "VENOM" labeled on it. pretty cool stuff

That was fake. There was only one real leaked script

 

[Matt Murdock]

Venom really doesn't have any depth... I don't get why people think he does.

 

[Stevens25]

I think that visually,giving Venom "webs" on his suit was a great move by Raimi and co. I think it would've been cool if when they showed Brock's face they had shown his eyes and nose and then Venom's gruesome mouth. I know the comics have done that at times.

 

[Lantern Venom]

LOL! Absolutely not.

The bottom line is that there is no depth to Venom; there is no reason for him to do what he is doing. There has never been a sufficient enough backstory to explain why he does what he does. "Daddy didn't love me" and "I have cancer" are not only cliches, but also add nothing to the character. Eddie's "depth" is really just shallow and forced sympathy.

Hell, just look at Eddie's reason for becoming Venom in the first place. He indirectly lost his job because Spider-Man stopped a serial killer? And he jumps from that to "protector of innocence"? WTF?! There is no reason for any of this, and such reasons have never been given.
.

Have you ever known anyone who was basically disowned by their parents/family? I've know my share of people like that and it almost always leads to a ripple effect of complex problems in their adult life. In Eddie's case, his lack of positive self-image and incomplete social skills lead to his inability to make his marriage to Anne work. So not only was his childhood an emotional wreck, so was his adult personal life.
The one area in which Eddie defined himself was his career. When that went into the tank after the Sin-Eater debacle, Eddie was broken. The difference between 616 Eddie and the shallow SM3 story was that Eddie never set out to do anything wrong. He thought he had done what was necessary to report a important story. He finds out that he's wrong and his last shred of self-worth is gone. Now throw in the fact that he's got cancer and isn't likely to see his golden years. This scenario would psychologically shatter anyone. It is any wonder that someone under such extreme stress would seek a displaced outlet to vent his anger? No wonder at all.
OF course, Eddie still longs for a normal existence. The fruit of that is his twisted yet vehement protection of "innocents". It's his statement about who he wanted to be rather than who he has become. That is powerful writing. That's what makes Venom so complex and so popular.
He would never make a dumb statement like "I like being bad".

 

[Stevens25]

I've said this over and over but there is so much more to Venom and Eddie Brock than people think,or want to believe.

 

[DACrowe]

Have you ever known anyone who was basically disowned by their parents/family? I've know my share of people like that and it almost always leads to a ripple effect of complex problems in their adult life. In Eddie's case, his lack of positive self-image and incomplete social skills lead to his inability to make his marriage to Anne work. So not only was his childhood an emotional wreck, so was his adult personal life.
The one area in which Eddie defined himself was his career. When that went into the tank after the Sin-Eater debacle, Eddie was broken. The difference between 616 Eddie and the shallow SM3 story was that Eddie never set out to do anything wrong. He thought he had done what was necessary to report a important story. He finds out that he's wrong and his last shred of self-worth is gone. Now throw in the fact that he's got cancer and isn't likely to see his golden years. This scenario would psychologically shatter anyone. It is any wonder that someone under such extreme stress would seek a displaced outlet to vent his anger? No wonder at all.
OF course, Eddie still longs for a normal existence. The fruit of that is his twisted yet vehement protection of "innocents". It's his statement about who he wanted to be rather than who he has become. That is powerful writing. That's what makes Venom so complex and so popular.
He would never make a dumb statement like "I like being bad".

Aw, but 90% of what you just said was added after the fact because for the first half a dozen stories or so (you know....the GOOD ones) none of that was there. And it still makes no sense that Spidey is the one he vents on and not hte guy who lied to him, not his boss who fired him and not the serial killer who kept on killing....no it was Spidey.

Makes no sense. It was a bull**** motive and all that stuff was added years later to try and make it have depth. He just comes off as a pathetic stalker. The movie took the character from TAS, which is still the best version of the character who was a scumbag developed properly and made him Peter's dopplenganger. I think the movie had the best premise of the character, but TAS is hands down the best execution. The comics character is as interesting as paint thinner.

IMO, of course.

 

[IamProdigy]

Ehh, Eddie might not have depth, but he's hella lot cooler than most of Spidey's rogue gallery.

 

[E.Brock]

i said it before...i like this prodigy guy