The Trump Thread!!! - Part 2

[InCali]

Actually, it's quite relevant to the discussion. Romney's opinion doesn't mean anything--the legal opinion does. And, the legal opinion is that a corporate entity does have some aspects of personhood. It can legally enter into a contract, while a business operated as a partnership cannot (but the partners themselves can). But, while a person can legally cast a vote for a candidate, a corporation cannot (ever). But if corporations were actually people . . .

So, when you go around saying corporations are people, you're wrong. Period. Romney's wrong. Period. They do have some aspects of personhood, though. That's important to understand; unless, of course, you just want to insist that something is true when it isn't just to advocate for your position. Then, by all means, go right ahead.

I thought you'd be able to put 2 and 2 together and catch the sarcasm of "people are corporations". I guess I was wrong.

The Latin roots of the word corporation are NOT relevant to this discussion. It's a word someone made up and has nothing to do with what a corporation was, what one is, and what one may evolve into.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

We NEED term limits (18 years for each House) in the Legislative Branch before we get campaign reform.

Term limits mean nothing. We need to extend terms first off. Congress does nothing but campaign as it is. 2 years for HoR is laughable. They are on a continuous campaign tour. That costs money. So no matter how good one's intentions are coming to Washington, and certainly no matter how long one is in Washington, your number one priority is getting re-elected. That takes money. To get said money, you have to have a few lobbyists in your pocket.

ETA:
And to add to that, if you limit how long someone can stay in office, they will just grab the cookie bowl faster and with both hands, knowing they have a short time to line their pockets.

 

[InCali]

Then how come California politics has been ruined by Unions then? Unions here essentially control the state.

That is, without a doubt, one of the most biased, uninformed statements I've ever heard. Just because a lot of people don't share your opinion means that unions ruined California politics. I donate money I earmark to candidates. Sorry I wrecked the political structure in California.

Laughable............and weird.....

 

[InCali]

Term limits mean nothing. We need to extend terms first off. Congress does nothing but campaign as it is. 2 years for HoR is laughable. They are on a continuous campaign tour. That costs money. So no matter how good one's intentions are coming to Washington, and certainly no matter how long one is in Washington, your number one priority is getting re-elected. That takes money. To get said money, you have to have a few lobbyists in your pocket.

ETA:
And to add to that, if you limit how long someone can stay in office, they will just grab the cookie bowl faster and with both hands, knowing they have a short time to line their pockets.

Agree again.....this is getting weird. t:

 

[Handsome Rob]

I thought you'd be able to put 2 and 2 together and catch the sarcasm of "people are corporations". I guess I was wrong.

The Latin roots of the word corporation are NOT relevant to this discussion. It's a word someone made up and has nothing to do with what a corporation was, what one is, and what one may evolve into.

I notice you still haven't addressed why corporations without a press outlet should have their speech restricted while corporations with a press outlet should not. So, I'll ask it in another way:

How is it substantively different that NewsCorp can use the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal to essentially "advertise" for candidate A without restriction, while heavy restrictions should be placed on Starbucks when it wants to buy ad time to support candidate B?

 

[herakles]

Term limits mean nothing. We need to extend terms first off. Congress does nothing but campaign as it is. 2 years for HoR is laughable. They are on a continuous campaign tour. That costs money. So no matter how good one's intentions are coming to Washington, and certainly no matter how long one is in Washington, your number one priority is getting re-elected. That takes money. To get said money, you have to have a few lobbyists in your pocket.

ETA:
And to add to that, if you limit how long someone can stay in office, they will just grab the cookie bowl faster and with both hands, knowing they have a short time to line their pockets.

Fine the House gets the same term as the Senate 6 years. Also if you can't anything done in 18 years what makes you think you will in 24 or 40 years?! We need to get rid of career politicians!

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

I notice you still haven't addressed why corporations without a press outlet should have their speech restricted while corporations with a press outlet should not. So, I'll ask it in another way:

How is it substantively different that NewsCorp can use the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal to essentially "advertise" for candidate A without restriction, while heavy restrictions should be placed on Starbucks when it wants to buy ad time to support candidate B?

I think he meant that no corporation should manipulate the press. As it is now, I think any one should be able to use whatever vehicle they wish to influence public support. It's wrong, but as you said, it's not right that Disney and Comcast get to set the agenda when other companies that aren't one of the big 6 media conglomerates cannot.

The reason that Trump pisses off Disney and Turner and Murdoch's empire while Clinton takes their dollar bills should be enough for some to seriously consider Trump regardless of his more unpolished rhetoric. IMO, there are bigger issues here than making up racial issues that never existed or worrying about the most powerful man in the world pissing off some lesser public figures.

 

[herakles]

That is, without a doubt, one of the most biased, uninformed statements I've ever heard. Just because a lot of people don't share your opinion means that unions ruined California politics. I donate money I earmark to candidates. Sorry I wrecked the political structure in California.

Laughable............and weird.....

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/20...unions_took_control_of_california_266663.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bernardino-bankrupt-idUSBRE8AC0HP20121113

 

[InCali]

I notice you still haven't addressed why corporations without a press outlet should have their speech restricted while corporations with a press outlet should not. So, I'll ask it in another way:

How is it substantively different that NewsCorp can use the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal to essentially "advertise" for candidate A without restriction, while heavy restrictions should be placed on Starbucks when it wants to buy ad time to support candidate B?

A free press is necessary. Granting the very, very wealthy the right to have an undue effect on the electoral process is a bad idea and is already having a negative effect on the political process in this country. I don't think Money is speech.

Look, we aren't going to agree. Each side made its points and the Supreme Court ruled. That being said, this debate is not over and has adherents on both sides.

 

[InCali]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/20...unions_took_control_of_california_266663.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bernardino-bankrupt-idUSBRE8AC0HP20121113

Anyone can come up with an article supporting their point of view. Cities can, and do, get screwed up. Some unions are corrupt. Some companies are corrupt and not everything that happens is the fault of unions or private companies. If you have a large group, there will be some bad eggs.

 

[InCali]

Fine the House gets the same term as the Senate 6 years. Also if you can't anything done in 18 years what makes you think you will in 24 or 40 years?! We need to get rid of career politicians!

I think people should get to decide who does and doesn't represent them and not have an artificial limit determining their representation. Also, you assume that nothing will get done. If so, people can choose to elect someone else. It's true things are mucked up. Glad Citizens United "fixed" that problem.....

 

[Marvolo]

I think people should get to decide who does and doesn't represent them and not have an artificial limit determining their representation.Also, you assume that nothing will get done. If so, people can choose to elect someone else. It's true things are mucked up. Glad Citizens United "fixed" that problem.....

Id agree if career politicians stayed in office solely because the informed people wanted them in for good reasons, and not because the politician rigged the system with gerrymandering, bribes, lies, and BS campaigning and if voters werent so partisan and uninformed. As long as voters are going to remain uninformed bigoted racist and generally foolish and as long as politicians remain crooked and cheats that will say anything and do anything to get in office we will need term limits.

Its not a bad thing to rotate the crops. They should get one 6-8 year term, and forbid them from any sort of campaigning while in office.

 

[InCali]

Id agree if career politicians stayed in office solely because the informed people wanted them in for good reasons, and not because the politician rigged the system with gerrymandering, bribes, lies, and BS campaigning and if voters werent so partisan and uninformed. As long as voters are going to remain uninformed bigoted racist and generally foolish and as long as politicians remain crooked and cheats that will say anything and do anything to get in office we will need term limits.

Its not a bad thing to rotate the crops. They should get one 6-8 year term, and forbid them from any sort of campaigning while in office.

I lived in Santa Cruz for many, many years. While I was there, I knew a couple of people who were in the state assembly, Fred Keeley and John Laird, who were among the finest people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. You can look over their lists of accomplishments. Both were termed out and both could have done so much more. So, you see, I am biased when it comes to this part of the debate.

 

[Marvolo]

I lived in Santa Cruz for many, many years. While I was there, I knew a couple of people who were in the state assembly, Fred Keeley and John Laird, who were among the finest people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. You can look over their lists of accomplishments. Both were termed out and both could have done so much more. So, you see, I am biased when it comes to this part of the debate.

It is unfortunate that we'd have to lose good ones, no doubt, but there are other equally good people out there to take their place and with term limits and a block on campaigning while in office it might curb some of the bad behavior of career politicians and might discourage some of the opportunism of career politicoans. I just feel that the benefits of term limits outweigh the negatives. They wouldnt solve every issue with congress, but itd help.

I think we need to change the presidential term system too. Ive swungto both sides of the argent at different times. At one time I wanted no term limits. But the more Ive thought about the more I think Presidents and their party spend their first term worrying about getting a second term. If we give them more terms itd get worse. And 4 years a term seems a bit short to me. So I think we should give the president a single term that lasts 6 or 8 years. Thats enough time to get stuff donr, and they wouldnt need to worry about a second term.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Retroman]

^^I wouldn't put it past him to do something like that. His campaign is pretty much one publicity stunt (insult) after another.He'll do anything for ratings and anything for votes.

Can't believe i am seeing Fox News and people like Bill O'Reilly groveling to this racist bully. Months after Megyn Kelly asked him a perfectly legitimate question in the debate, he's still crying. How is he going to handle things like that if he -god forbid- becomes president?

 

[DarkKnight]

Trump bailing on the Fox debate to raise 6 million dollars for veterans. This is not only awesome, but humorous too. That's how you boycott something, do something positive while boycotting HAHA.

I don't care what side of the political fence you are on. I'm tired of these unrelated questions these candidates are getting asked. I swear the media is one of the biggest problems turning the presidential candidates and debates into a circus.

 

[Warhammer]

Trump bailing on the Fox debate to raise 6 million dollars for veterans. This is not only awesome, but humorous too. That's how you boycott something, do something positive while boycotting HAHA.

I don't care what side of the political fence you are on. I'm tired of these unrelated questions these candidates are getting asked. I swear the media is one of the biggest problems turning the presidential candidates and debates into a circus.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Trump bailing on the Fox debate to raise 6 million dollars for veterans. This is not only awesome, but humorous too. That's how you boycott something, do something positive while boycotting HAHA.

I don't care what side of the political fence you are on. I'm tired of these unrelated questions these candidates are getting asked. I swear the media is one of the biggest problems turning the presidential candidates and debates into a circus.

Did he raise money for the vets? Because this wouldn't be the first time he lied about that.

 

[DarkKnight]

Did he raise money for the vets? Because this wouldn't be the first time he lied about that.

Oh please...... Haters gonna hate.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh please...... Haters gonna hate.

No, this is true. He once "raised money" for an organization that wasn't even an actual organization. It was one guy who didn't accept members.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

Oh please...... Haters gonna hate.

Cmon, if this 6 million dollar number is coming from Trump's own mouth I don't believe a word of it. He knows all he has to do is pull a number out of his ass and shout it out the media will do his work for him and the dullards out there will blindly eat it up as fact. I hope they truly follow the money and say actually where it goes or who it benefits because Trump has pulled this crap before.

 

[Matt Mortem]

Did he raise money for the vets? Because this wouldn't be the first time he lied about that.

A few of the big veteran organizations have come out either opposed to his fundraising, or haven't been contacted about funds period. It's all a big publicity attempt.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-he-doesnt-give-a-damn-about-vets-either-way/

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/267417-veterans-groups-scoff-at-trump-event

 

[DarkKnight]

I think yall just need to be like Taylor Swift and "Shake it off, shake it off"

 

[Matt Mortem]

And you should probably lay off the Kool-Aid