The unAUTHENTIC DC Boards Lounge version 8.0

[Tron Bonne]

I thought 'hack' was just a way of calling someone a bad writer

That's basically how a lot people use it on the internet, I've noticed. But no, I would actually say it's actually very possible for someone to be a total hack, but still be a good writer.

I would actually even say it's fairly impossible for someone to know how any artist is actually a hack by the standard meaning of today really. Unless an artist is just blunt about not giving a **** about their work.

Though, as far as the ripping off thing goes about being a hack, I think painters who are paid to anonymously do copies of famous paintings to sell at reduced prices are considered hacks. Kind of a different thing, though, since you can't really copy a story in exactly the same manner.

 

[BlackLantern]

No, not really. The 'traditional' meaning is basically someone who is paid to produce a large amount of cheap and quick works in whatever medium in a short time (usually article writing or pulp fiction). What it's shifted to mean nowadays is someone who writes without any care of artistic merit (not that that's all they care about, just that it's something they at least strive for in some ways).

Ripping off others (as in literally stealing their ideas outright) is just plagiarism. A hack could be that, but it's not something that really makes someone a hack, no.

it tends to get used incorrectly here on the Hype....but I see your point

on the bolded part, would you also say that blatantly putting out product solely to market to a specific niche (goth kids, to use an example) to maximize your $$$ is in the same arena?

 

[Tron Bonne]

on the bolded part, would you also say that blatantly putting out product solely to market to a specific niche (goth kids, to use an example) to maximize your $$$ is in the same arena?

It all depends on the intent of it, I guess. If that's solely what they are doing for, then yeah, I would probably say that's what most people consider a hack nowadays. But if they are doing that, but still are trying to infuse some artistic value into, probably not fair to call them a hack.

 

[SuperFerret]

By that definition, I'm a quasi-hack. I write for fun and to tell cool stories, but I don't often intentionally add in any artistic techniques or really consider what I'm doing to be "art".

 

[BlackLantern]

seems to be subjective....who's to say what artistic intent is and what isn't?....I find it worse if someone claims they are trying to make art and not as opposed to someone who says they are in it for the money and people still go to see it or read it

 

[Tron Bonne]

By that definition, I'm a quasi-hack. I write for fun and to tell cool stories, but I don't often intentionally add in any artistic techniques or really consider what I'm doing to be "art".

Well, that wouldn't be a quasi-hack, that would...just be a hack, I guess. But are you a published author or anything? Because if you're just dicking around with fanfiction or your own stories for fun, I don't think it matters either way.

 

[Tron Bonne]

seems to be subjective....who's to say what artistic intent is and what isn't?....I find it worse if someone claims they are trying to make art and not as opposed to someone who says they are in it for the money and people still go to see it or read it

And that's what I was talking about it earlier about thinking it's impossible to really know how anyone is actually a hack unless they just come out and say, 'I'm in this purely for the money and could care less about anything else.' At least by the definition that's formed nowadays. I imagine it's not hard to find someone's who is really a hack in the old school meaning of the word.

 

[Mystirious]

That's basically how a lot people use it on the internet, I've noticed. But no, I would actually say it's actually very possible for someone to be a total hack, but still be a good writer.

I would actually even say it's fairly impossible for someone to know how any artist is actually a hack by the standard meaning of today really. Unless an artist is just blunt about not giving a **** about their work.

Though, as far as the ripping off thing goes about being a hack, I think painters who are paid to anonymously do copies of famous paintings to sell at reduced prices are considered hacks. Kind of a different thing, though, since you can't really copy a story in exactly the same manner.

The more you know

I would not consider Gaiman a hack by that definition of the word either then

 

[BlackLantern]

And that's what I was talking about it earlier about thinking it's impossible to really know how anyone is actually a hack unless they just come out and say, 'I'm in this purely for the money and could care less about anything else.' At least by the definition that's formed nowadays. I imagine it's not hard to find someone's who is really a hack in the old school meaning of the word.

I call that honesty and the people have no one to blame but themselves if they go see that persons films or buy their books or what have you

The more you know

I would not consider Gaiman a hack by that definition of the word either then

to be fair Mysti....you're kind of a softie...I wonder what it would take to turn you into a cynical malcontent like the rest of us

 

[Tron Bonne]

I call that honesty and the people have no one to blame but themselves if they go see that persons films or buy their books or what have you

Okay, but that doesn't really have any bearing on what we're talking about it or anything. Doesn't really stop them from being a hack and putting out work they don't care about, don't care to try and refine, just to make money. It is, as Aesop would say, what it is.

 

[The Morningstar]

Yea, isn't a hack someone who is basically in it just for the money? Like a "hack reporter" who chases stories without actually giving a crap about the story itself.

And the guy who wrote Sandman is the furthest thing from a hack ever.

 

[BlackLantern]

Okay, but that doesn't really have any bearing on what we're talking about it or anything. Doesn't really stop them from being a hack and putting out work they don't care about, don't care to try and refine, just to make money. It is, as Aesop would say, what it is.

artistic integrity doesn't pay the rent

 

[BlackLantern]

Yea, isn't a hack someone who is basically in it just for the money? Like a "hack reporter" who chases stories without actually giving a crap about the story itself.

who says you have to care about your job as long as you're good at it?

 

[Tron Bonne]

Artistic integrity and ability of artistic merit aren't necessarily the same thing

 

[The Morningstar]

who says you have to care about your job as long as you're good at it?

No one. Just saying, that's the definition of hack.

But usually, when someone is in it just for the money, it effects the quality of their work. Most times you're better at your job, whatever that is, if you genuinely enjoy it I find.

Like when an actor "phones in" a performance and is doing it just for the money, it's usually a **** performance.

 

[BlackLantern]

Artistic integrity and ability of artistic merit aren't necessarily the same thing

most definitely....but there has always been this mindset among some people...like "how dare he not care and only want to make $$$, how dare he? "

if you're good at what you do, and you put out a product that people desire, who gives a s*** if you actually care about it?

 

[Tron Bonne]

most definitely....but there has always been this mindset among some people...like "how dare he not care and only want to make $$$, how dare he? "

if you're good at what you do, and you put out a product that people desire, who gives a s*** if you actually care about it?

Well, that's just kind of a different thing all together. That's not as much about defining what a hack is as much as it's 'Why shouldn't I be a hack? It's all cool, bro.' I mean, for me, I don't have an issue with it or anything. Though, my question about it is, why are you doing something you don't give a **** about? There's literally millions of careers out there for you to do, surely you can find something you like and decide to go into that?

 

[BlackLantern]

some folks don't have that option....some people find something they can do effortlessly, make some $$$, and ride it for as long as they can

not everyone gets their dream job, sometimes just getting by works

 

[Tron Bonne]

Of course, there are always cases of people who just hit rock bottom and have no options, but at the same time, there's plenty of people (especially in arts and entertainment, which is what we're talking about) who have more options to branch out and do something they find some enjoyment in, even a small degree. And it's not like anyone just likes one thing, and if they don't manage that, they're doomed forever.

 

[BlackLantern]

Doomed in the karmic sense?

 

[Tron Bonne]

No, just figuratively speaking. Doomed to have a sucky existence with their job/career. All I meant was that no one really has this one-dimensional love of one thing, and if they can't do it, they can never enjoy that aspect of their lives at all.

 

[BlackLantern]

No, just figuratively speaking. Doomed to have a sucky existence with their job/career. All I meant was that no one really has this one-dimensional love of one thing, and if they can't do it, they can never enjoy that aspect of their lives.

there are people out there like that.....never underestimate humans and their ability to be miserable

 

[chamber-music]

I hate 90% of modern art.

You know that stuff where some 'artist' takes a dump in a cup and says its a statement about mans mastery of nature or some other rubbish.

Type crud that wins turner prizes

 

[BlackLantern]

I hate 90% of modern art.

You know that stuff where some 'artist' takes a dump in a cup and says its a statement about mans mastery of nature or some other rubbish.

Type crud that wins turner prizes

you mean stuff like this?

http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/the-gates/index.html#/documentaries/the-gates/synopsis.html

 

[Tron Bonne]

I know there are, but from my experience, it's more self-made. People who don't get their dream job, and just settle into whatever else without any real effort into something else they may also like. Not to dismiss the fact that there are a lot of people who hit that bottom floor and don't have options, but like I said, since we're talking mostly about entertainment/arts, those people tend to have more options then the average joe. If someone hates TV writing and loves comics, they could easily go to comics. Of course, that's more of a money issue. There's not a huge amount of money to be made in comics alone, though you can live on it. That just gets into the whole need for as much as money as you can get, which is another issue all together.