The Wrestling Thread Has Until 5! - Part 40

[Dr. Evil]

If Jericho does come back I'd expect him to feud with Punk right away, which could make things interesting.

 

[Wheels]

Cena has been the top guy, and ratings and buyrates have been going down steadily for years. Punk might not be the answer for WWE, but it sure as hell ain't John Cena.

 

[SpideyInATree]

I think a Cena heel turn mixed with Punk going against strong opponents for the title could really build something big between a face Punk and a heel Cena.

 

[Wheels]

Sometimes I wish Brock Lesnar never left WWE. He was on his way to becoming a big draw in my opinion.

 

[bullets]

Brock leaving was a huge disappointment.

I think a Cena heel turn mixed with Punk going against strong opponents for the title could really build something big between a face Punk and a heel Cena.

That would be the best possible outcome from my perspective. Cena needs to turn heel in 2012. Punk is doing well playing off JL's character but he does need a bigger feud.

As world champ?

I don't expect to see Christian with the title anytime soon but I'd like to see him in another main event feud. Possibly with Daniel Bryan

 

[Slushy]

Unfortunately, nobody is a draw anymore and I blame that on Vince's impatience to create new stars / credible main eventers because of putting a stranglehold on the WWE Universe by spoiling them with John Cena.

I'll be pissed if he does, If it has come down to ending the streak being a Mania moment instead of a moment that could cement a top guy as a true star, then the moment should have been HBK's.

I agree. If anybody should've ended the Streak, it should've been Orton at WM 21 or HBK at WM 25.

 

[Saint]

It was pretty sweet seeing the way the crowd reacted during the Bryan match tonight. I hope WWE took note. Great main event.

 

[Trainwreck2100]

Unfortunately, nobody is a draw anymore and I blame that on Vince's impatience to create new stars / credible main eventers because of putting a stranglehold on the WWE Universe by spoiling them with John Cena.



I agree. If anybody should've ended the Streak, it should've been Orton at WM 21 or HBK at WM 25.

I hate that term, its stupid and dumb and insults the intelligence of fans everywhere

 

[Hunter Rider]

This whole thing with the Raw numbers really needs perspective, hopefully perspective WWE has. For starters Punk was teaming with two guys who have never even been in a top PPV match, Bryan has won about 6 matches in 6 months and hardly spoken, probably the worst booked MITB winner ever. Add to that there was zero conflict given the opponents.

It was noticeable how much more over Punk was in the opening than Bryan and Ryder, both have some crowd support but it doesn't mean fans buy them or want them as main eventers, at least not yet, Nell made this point earlier.

Then we have the old saying "A hero is only as good as his villain", getting over is one thing but booking is everything, if the feud sucks people are not going to tune in no matter how good the wrestler. As it stands Miz has spent the last 6 weeks being Cena's ***** and Del Rio was never over enough to be a top guy, yet these are who Punk's challengers are.

To use some numbers to prove the point above, Cena did poor numbers and one of the worst buyrates in years feuding with The Miz when Rock wasn't involved. Orton's match with Barrett lost 777,000 viewers this past week, is Orton not bankable now?......Cena and Punk added over a million viewers when they had their Raw match and Triple H and Punk got the highest SD number in years for their contract signing segment, why?....Because it was equals in a compelling angle, note the good number jump for Cena/Kane this week as another example of how it works.

On this past Raw they asked Punk to give Bryan and Ryder the rub and continue feuding with two overpushed upper mid carders, it's like he's just got behind the wheel and they are already asking him to carry passengers.

Sheamus beat Miz clean on this weeks SD which to me should mean he will not be Punk's challenger at the Rumble. Instead I fully believe Jericho will return on January 2nd and start an angle with Punk immediately......If they don't get decent numbers then there is a problem with Punk as champion.

One last thing to bear in mind is that even with Jericho no one should expect crazy numbers, note even The Rock's return on Raw didn't do anything like a hot segment from the attitude era, in fact his overrun numbers were lower than HBK segment the night after WrestleMania 26.

 

[Project862006]

wwe needs to get this through their heads

1 guy has not,will not,and can not change the landscape of the entire WWE

ratings sucked when cena,miz,del rio were champ the ratings were not any better when cena was champ

attitude era did'nt work just because of austin

but a combination of other wrestlers

 

[Wheels]

wwe needs to get this through their heads

1 guy has not,will not,and can not change the landscape of the entire WWE

ratings sucked when cena,miz,del rio were champ the ratings were not any better when cena was champ

attitude era did'nt work just because of austin

but a combination of other wrestlers

Exactly.

I swear I think I will throw up if WWE reverts back to the SuperCena show. His character disgusts me at the moment.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I'm gonna say something that 6 months ago I would never dream would come out of my mouth.

If WWE takes the title off of CM Punk, I'm gonna kick 'em in the god damn nuts and piss on their face.

CM Punk isn't my favorite, and let's be real, I'd love to take this opportunity to say "HAHA IWC TAKE THAT PUNK SUCKS MIZ ROXXORZ!!!" but let's be real...

CM Punk is... *cough* *deep breath* /bracemyself he's the hope for WWE's future that it's not going to be completely lame and predictable.

I love Miz, he's my favorite in a long time, but he's not a "carry the company" type of talent. Del Rio, well he's got loads of potential that he's not living up to currently. Still like him. But he's not the next big thing. Cena and Orton are incredibly lame and played out.

CM Punk breathed some life into the WWE, some much needed life. Yes I know, I'm the first to criticize him, and I still agree with my criticisms to an extent, but the fact is, Punk is the "it" factor in WWE right now.

Hunter touched on something that I believe is the real reason why ratings tanked. I don't know if this is quite the direction Hunter was implying, but it's something I've been thinking the past couple days.

This thread has had that picture posted around of all the current champions - Punk, Bryan, Ryder, Kofi, Bourne, Cody, Beth...

And that's why ratings tanked. That image might be an IWC circle jerk fest, but that's not exactly a group of stars that are going to carry a company to the next level.

Punk? Good.
Ryder? I still don't understand why he's so over, but he is. He's holding the perfect belt.
Cody? Getting better. Not quite at that "next level", but he's good.
Kofi and Bourne? *yawn*

But the absolute worst in that picture?

Daniel Bryan.

And I'm not trying to knock him. I'm really not. He's a good in ring talent that deserves to get some recognition. But World Heavyweight Championship? No.

When I was at the Money In The Bank PPV watching at Hooters, I saw people walk out of the restaurant when Daniel Bryan won the briefcase.

So it doesn't surprise me that viewers are tuning out when CM Punk is having a circle jerk in the ring with Ryder and Bryan.

It probably doesn't help any that everyone knew how that match was going to end. There was no suspense. Guys like Del Rio, Miz, they aren't allowed to get over clean on someone (wow, did I just say "get over clean"? What's happening to me?? )

But seriously, it's predictable. We all know how it's gonna end. And that segment was way too "indy love" for my tastes, and probably for the tastes of a lot of the general audience.

That doesn't mean take the belt off Punk. Or Ryder. Or even Bryan. I don't like that Bryan has the belt, but he has it, and the answer isn't to make him look bad by ripping it off of him. But let's cut back on the indy love fests. That was way too much for me the other night. Monday Night was like what happens when the smarks get control, and it really showed to me.

 

[Wheels]

I think Bryan will never be loved by casual fans. Casual fans don't care about awesome matches. That's not why they watch, and wrestling audiences are so different today that I doubt guys like Bret Hart could get over now.

Also I wish some people would let go of this indy vs mainstream BS. Punk and Bryan are talented guys and their backgrounds shouldn't matter. I'm a fan of Dolph Ziggler and Cody Rhodes who were OVW graduates. It's not my fault Johnny Ace sucks as a talent scout and FCW has only started to improve fairly recently. I think some people wouldn't have any problems with Punk if he wasn't a former independent wrestler. I liked Lesnar who was trained by OVW, I like Orton, who was trained by OVW, I liked Cena who was trained by OVW. The only reason people prefer indy and overseas talents now is because Johnny Ace can't find good inexperienced guys.

JR>>>> Johnny Ace

 

[NDX]

Ahh, it feels good to come home from a good ROH show. Looking forward to the 10 Year Anniversary Show in March.

 

[Slushy]

The problem with Danielson is he is suffering from The Maven Effect. Great talent, but has no character. Plus he's too goody goody like John Cena. If he had a gimmick of some sort and got back that attitude he showed Michael Cole back during the NXT days, he'd be fine.

Character matters. Just look at Zach Ryder.

Sheamus beat Miz clean on this weeks SD which to me should mean he will not be Punk's challenger at the Rumble.

I disagree. I still think Miz will be in the title scene. Its just that Sheamus is in good favor with management now (kinda of like when Boogeyman squashed JBL clean at the 2006 Rumble) and on a different brand so he got the win. The guy has been on a roll. Hell, I can't even remember the last time Sheamus lost a match so if anything, he'll be in a high profile match at Wrestlemania.

I hate that term, its stupid and dumb and insults the intelligence of fans everywhere

I know, but I've gotten used to it plus its the best way to describe today's casual fans.

 

[The Sage]

We reported several days ago that former Ring of Honor star Chris Hero recently had his WWE offer retracted when the results of a round of drug testing revealed high testosterone levels.

The Wrestling Observer is now reporting that while the contract offer to Hero was indeed rescinded by WWE, he remains on the company's radar and is waiting to clear up his recent medical testing issue.

It's being said that Hero has another round of medical tests coming up in January, and if all goes well, he will likely be signed by WWE. The last round of medical tests, which showed the high levels of testosterone, were conducted back in September of this year.

Chris Hero appeared on last night's Ring of Honor "Final Battle" card, taking on former ROH Champion Roderick Strong.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/247051-update-the-very-latest-on-chris-heros-wwe-status

 

[The Sage]

I'm gonna say something that 6 months ago I would never dream would come out of my mouth.

If WWE takes the title off of CM Punk, I'm gonna kick 'em in the god damn nuts and piss on their face.

CM Punk isn't my favorite, and let's be real, I'd love to take this opportunity to say "HAHA IWC TAKE THAT PUNK SUCKS MIZ ROXXORZ!!!" but let's be real...

CM Punk is... *cough* *deep breath* /bracemyself he's the hope for WWE's future that it's not going to be completely lame and predictable.

I love Miz, he's my favorite in a long time, but he's not a "carry the company" type of talent. Del Rio, well he's got loads of potential that he's not living up to currently. Still like him. But he's not the next big thing. Cena and Orton are incredibly lame and played out.

CM Punk breathed some life into the WWE, some much needed life. Yes I know, I'm the first to criticize him, and I still agree with my criticisms to an extent, but the fact is, Punk is the "it" factor in WWE right now.

Hunter touched on something that I believe is the real reason why ratings tanked. I don't know if this is quite the direction Hunter was implying, but it's something I've been thinking the past couple days.

This thread has had that picture posted around of all the current champions - Punk, Bryan, Ryder, Kofi, Bourne, Cody, Beth...

And that's why ratings tanked. That image might be an IWC circle jerk fest, but that's not exactly a group of stars that are going to carry a company to the next level.

Punk? Good.
Ryder? I still don't understand why he's so over, but he is. He's holding the perfect belt.
Cody? Getting better. Not quite at that "next level", but he's good.
Kofi and Bourne? *yawn*

But the absolute worst in that picture?

Daniel Bryan.

And I'm not trying to knock him. I'm really not. He's a good in ring talent that deserves to get some recognition. But World Heavyweight Championship? No.

When I was at the Money In The Bank PPV watching at Hooters, I saw people walk out of the restaurant when Daniel Bryan won the briefcase.

So it doesn't surprise me that viewers are tuning out when CM Punk is having a circle jerk in the ring with Ryder and Bryan.

It probably doesn't help any that everyone knew how that match was going to end. There was no suspense. Guys like Del Rio, Miz, they aren't allowed to get over clean on someone (wow, did I just say "get over clean"? What's happening to me?? )

But seriously, it's predictable. We all know how it's gonna end. And that segment was way too "indy love" for my tastes, and probably for the tastes of a lot of the general audience.

That doesn't mean take the belt off Punk. Or Ryder. Or even Bryan. I don't like that Bryan has the belt, but he has it, and the answer isn't to make him look bad by ripping it off of him. But let's cut back on the indy love fests. That was way too much for me the other night. Monday Night was like what happens when the smarks get control, and it really showed to me.

I don't think the poor ratings were the result of indy love fests but what happens when guys aren't booked right.

While Daniel Bryan as a World Champion is a stretch for a lot of people, the major reason iMO is because there was no build up. His title win came out of nowhere. It's another case of the company hotshotting the title on someone and expecting him to get over instantly because of it despite history showing that can't happen. Bryan was booked horribly after winning MITB. It's pretty much what happened to Jack Swagger.

When Miz won the WWE title, it felt believeable for the most part because he was booked decently for several months. He was over with the crowd. Now what happened afterwards is a whole other story entirely.

Beth as champion isn't a problem...the problem is she's booked like crap, the way majority the women's division is.

 

[Van Petrol]

wwe needs to get this through their heads

1 guy has not,will not,and can not change the landscape of the entire WWE

ratings sucked when cena,miz,del rio were champ the ratings were not any better when cena was champ

attitude era did'nt work just because of austin

but a combination of other wrestlers

Agreed. But Austin was the catalyst/foundations, which the 'Attitude Era' was built on.

 

[LOBO3315a]

Yeah, Austin didn't single-handily make the Attitude Era come about, but he was the spark that started the fire.

That's what this generation needs, and Punk is pretty close to it.

 

[TheFuture]

I gotta admit, I cringed watching that opening segment on Raw with Ryder/Punk/Bryan.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Yeah, Austin didn't single-handily make the Attitude Era come about, but he was the spark that started the fire.

That's what this generation needs, and Punk is pretty close to it.

Punk + Heel Cena will define this next stage of the WWE.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

Just because one segment went down in ratings, WWE are putting it on Punk? And why are people tuning out anyway? People love Punk, people love Ryder and they're both champions. Isn't this what people wanted?

 

[Pink Ranger]

I don't think they could use last week's main event as a barometer. It's like if it was 1986, it would be Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat and Jake the Snake vs. Steve Lombardi, Barry O and Iron Mike Sharpe.

 

[E-Man]

I've said it before countless times, but one way to improve the ratings is to strengthen the IC title and tag titles. Whoever was feuding for the IC title was more than enough to keep anyone's attention when the ratings were great. As a matter of fact, it gave a hot as hell Rock and Triple H something to vie for when Shawn Michaels and Stone Cold were feuding for the title. Not only did you have to tune in to see the latest in the main event, but seeing what was happening with the IC title was a really big deal back then. When Hulk Hogan was on top watching Macho Man defending the IC title was an incredibly huge deal to see.

The two guys holding the IC and U.S. title have all the talent in the world to make those titles big again, but who is Cody and Doplh feuding with to make that happen? It's like the tag titles. It was nice putting together Bourne and Kofi, but who have they been feuding with to elevate the title? They won the belts to some fanfare. WWE put some stock into it so that it felt like the tag titles were going to matter again, and now several weeks later they're just hanging out with some gold on their shoulders like all the other tag champs before then. Even before Bourne's suspension it was heading down that path.

Make the secondary titles matter again and everything won't have to rise and fall on what's happening in the main event. Even though that's not the case as y'all have been saying, but WWE thinks too much like that.

 

[Van Petrol]

I was watching Austin's latest DVD/Blu-Ray the other day, and noticed they played 'Cult of Personality' over one of his montages. I wonder if that's where Punk got the idea for his new theme, especially considering his admiration for Austin, and that he did 'that' shoot promo wearing an Austin t-shirt.