Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread - Part 1

[DigificWriter]

then......why hasn't any of that been done yet?

Yeah, we're possibly getting a black/bi-racial MJ.

but why didn't they make Peter black?

Why wasn't Superman black in MOS?

Why didn't they go for an Asian Batman in B v S?

there's a reason. and that's because the Studios still think those moves are too risky.

maybe, someday in the future we will get those changes.

but right now, it's obviously still considered too risky by the Studios - otherwise, they would have done it by now.

Just because certain decisions haven't yet been made doesn't mean they couldn't be made, or that they're not being made because somebody thinks it's "too risky" to make them.

We've never seen, for example, an African-American play the character of Roger in RENT, but that doesn't mean that it would be out-of-the-question for it to happen, or that there would be any significant objection if it were to happen.

"Color-blind" casting is "color-blind" for a reason, because it allows for the possibility of something to happen even if said thing has never actually yet happened, and it's a notion that really ought to apply to forms of media adaptation beyond the theatrical stage, particularly amongst the "fandom community".

It's already happening with regards to the James Bond fandom, as there's a rather significant number of fans who want - and are actively clamoring for - Idris Elba to be given the role, but I wish it would happen with regards to comic-book movies as well, since it'd make talking about said movies much more pleasant and we wouldn't get these silly notions of "you can't do that because it wasn't done in the comics".

 

[KalvinEllis]

If they didn't opt to make someone like Iron Fist Asian, I certainly don't see them changing the ethnicity of Superman anytime soon. X Knight said it himself, when it comes to these major super-popular characters, moves like that must be considered far too risky. Also given into account all the products, merchandise sold every day with the likeness of the character, they just wouldn't do that. In 10-15 years time? Who knows, but I don't expect it to happen anytime soon. Can it happen with MJ, Lois or Gwen? Sure, seems like it has happened already with one of them, no matter how popular they are and how ingrained Lois and MJ are in the public consciousness, they are still supporting players. Clark, Bruce or Peter are a different story.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Again, just because something hasn't been done doesn't mean that it's considered "too risky" to do. It just means that somebody hasn't come along with the suggestion of doing it.

 

[X Knight]

Just because certain decisions haven't yet been made doesn't mean they couldn't be made, or that they're not being made because somebody thinks it's "too risky" to make them.

We've never seen, for example, an African-American play the character of Roger in RENT, but that doesn't mean that it would be out-of-the-question for it to happen, or that there would be any significant objection if it were to happen.

"Color-blind" casting is "color-blind" for a reason, because it allows for the possibility of something to happen even if said thing has never actually yet happened, and it's a notion that really ought to apply to forms of media adaptation beyond the theatrical stage, particularly amongst the "fandom community".

It's already happening with regards to the James Bond fandom, as there's a rather significant number of fans who want - and are actively clamoring for - Idris Elba to be given the role, but I wish it would happen with regards to comic-book movies as well, since it'd make talking about said movies much more pleasant and we wouldn't get these silly notions of "you can't do that because it wasn't done in the comics".

I'm not saying it can't happen in the future. And if/when it does, I won't be happy about it. I'm not as open minded about this subject as you are.....lol.

If I created an original character, I'd be creating him/her with a particular look, backstory, and character traits. That's my character - that's how I envisioned the character.

I wouldn't want someone coming along years down the road to make an adaptation of that character and make major changes. I'd be pissed and offended.

Minor changes? Fine. I'd expect that.

But major, drastic changes? No. I wouldn't be ok with that.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm not saying it can't happen in the future. And if/when it does, I won't be happy about it. I'm not as open minded about this subject as you are.....lol.

You should be.

Everyone should be.

Fandoms turn ugly because people are so closed-minded that they personally take offense when someone dares to come along and do something creative. The fact that this kind of thinking only persists in "fandom circles" by and large is not something that people should take pride in or how they should want to behave.

 

[X Knight]

^ Again, just because something hasn't been done doesn't mean that it's considered "too risky" to do. It just means that somebody hasn't come along with the suggestion of doing it.

how do you know that no one has suggested it? how do you know what goes on in the meetings and discussions at the Studios?

someone obviously suggested it for the new Aquaman and they approved that.

and maybe no one has suggested changing Batman or Superman because they know right away it's too risky, would cause too much backlash, etc.

 

[PeterBenParker]

The vast majority of people wouldn't give a **** about non-white versions of those characters. The only people who would raise a stink would be people who are entrenched in their own preconceptions about what a particular character is "supposed" to look like, and I firmly believe that said people really ought to "wake up" and realize how outdated those preconceptions are.

Spoiler

The ONLY instances where it would be genuinely unacceptable not to engage in "color-blind casting" would be instances where a character's race or ethnicity is intrinsic to who they are (Black Panther or Blade, for example).

Luke Cage is another one, too.

There is nothing about characters like Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, Peter Parker, Lois Lane, Mary Jane Watson, etc. that "requires" them to be cast/look a certain way other than outdated preconceptions fostered by people who can't or won't allow the adaptation process to play itself out like it's supposed to.

Hence why so many people wanted Donald Glover as Peter Parker. It wasn't his skin color that people were advocating for necessarily, it had to do more so that he was a big fan of the character and he'd probably do well in the role. Plus, his pitch he had sounded really cool.

I'm pretty protective of Peter Parker, but I'd have little issue with someone like Donald Glover, Tyler James Williams, Steven Yeun, Brennan Mejia, Rami Malek, etc. in the role of the character.

Just like I have had little issue (and will continue to have little issue) with a White actor continuing to play Peter Parker.

Spoiler

 

[X Knight]

You should be.

Everyone should be.

Fandoms turn ugly because people are so closed-minded that they personally take offense when someone dares to come along and do something creative. The fact that this kind of thinking only persists in "fandom circles" by and large is not something that people should take pride in or how they should want to behave.

just because you feel that way doesn't mean me or someone else has to feel that way.

 

[X Knight]

Spoiler

Luke Cage is another one, too.



Hence why so many people wanted Donald Glover as Peter Parker. It wasn't his skin color that people were advocating for necessarily, it had to do more so that he was a big fan of the character and he'd probably do well in the role. Plus, his pitch he had sounded really cool.

I'm pretty protective of Peter Parker, but I'd have little issue with someone like Donald Glover, Tyler James Williams, Steven Yeun, Brennan Mejia, Rami Malek, etc. in the role of the character.

Just like I have had little issue (and will continue to have little issue) with a White actor continuing to play Peter Parker.

Spoiler

is that traits list real ( as in official from Marvel ) or fan made?

 

[PeterBenParker]

is that traits list real ( as in official from Marvel ) or fan made?

They are from Sony when they got hacked.

 

[DigificWriter]

how do you know that no one has suggested it? how do you know what goes on in the meetings and discussions at the Studios?

someone obviously suggested it for the new Aquaman and they approved that.

and maybe no one has suggested changing Batman or Superman because they no right away it's too risky, would cause too much backlash, etc.

Or it's never occurred to anybody (for whatever reason) to make the suggestion.

 

[jasontodd]

Spoiler

Luke Cage is another one, too.



Hence why so many people wanted Donald Glover as Peter Parker. It wasn't his skin color that people were advocating for necessarily, it had to do more so that he was a big fan of the character and he'd probably do well in the role. Plus, his pitch he had sounded really cool.

I'm pretty protective of Peter Parker, but I'd have little issue with someone like Donald Glover, Tyler James Williams, Steven Yeun, Brennan Mejia, Rami Malek, etc. in the role of the character.

Just like I have had little issue (and will continue to have little issue) with a White actor continuing to play Peter Parker.

Spoiler

What is that Spider-Man character traits list from?

 

[X Knight]

They are from Sony when they got hacked.

ah, thanks.

 

[PeterBenParker]

What is that Spider-Man character traits list from?

Sony hack.

 

[X Knight]

Or it's never occurred to anybody (for whatever reason) to make the suggestion.

oh, I'm sure it's occurred.

it's occurred to you and other posters here who are open to the idea.

so I'm sure it has occurred to the writers/directors/creative who pitch the ideas to the Studios.

and if it hasn't occurred, maybe there's a reason for that too. maybe it's because these characters are so iconic and so popular and so ingrained in popular culture that one wouldn't even entertain the idea of changing the character.

 

[X Knight]

Sony hack.

just curious, but what was the reaction when that traits list was released?

did people call Sony "close minded" for having such strict guidelines for the character?

 

[PeterBenParker]

just curious, but what was the reaction when that traits list was released?

did people call Sony "close minded" for having such strict guidelines for the character?

I'm sure the tumblr crew and certain Twitter users had that sentiment, but as far as I could tell (at least on here), everybody seemed to be fine with it.

As I said, while I'd have no issue with Peter Parker being portrayed by an actor of a different race, I'd have no issue with him being portrayed just as he's always been.

I just care more about the right actor/right portrayal first and foremost and that's never going to change.

 

[DigificWriter]

oh, I'm sure it's occurred.

it's occurred to you and other posters here who are open to the idea.

so I'm sure it has occurred to the writers/directors/creative who pitch the ideas to the Studios.

and if it hasn't occurred, maybe there's a reason for that too. maybe it's because these characters are so iconic and so popular and so ingrained in popular culture that one wouldn't even entertain the idea of changing the character.

Which is extremely stupid and outdated reasoning, and runs completely counter to the very concept of adaptation itself.

The world would be a much better place if people weren't so "stuck in their ways" when it comes to certain things, but, thankfully, you've got areas like the James Bond fandom and the theater industry where this kind of thinking isn't an issue.

just curious, but what was the reaction when that traits list was released?

did people call Sony "close minded" for having such strict guidelines for the character?

I doubt that happened, but it ought to have.

 

[auditor]

I cam live with this, but I would have preferred a red head white girl.

I do prefer most characters look like the comic book, with occasional race changing so not everybody in the whole movie is white.

 

[terry78]

Ultimate comics pretty much are the template for the MCU, with some exceptions. They switched up quite a few races.

 

[Amadeus Arkham]

Anyone who thinks whitewashing isn't a thing should watch this movie:

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Idris Elba is not going to be Bond. He's too old. Even he has admitted he's too old. The studios don't want him either. They want Damian-Lewis or Tom Hiddleston if Craig doesn't give them a definite answer he wants to return.

So, sorry, but the closest Idris will get to Bond is probably being a villain or getting a franchise where he'd play a character similar to Bond.

I wish people would let the push for a black Bond go.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

I'm not saying it can't happen in the future. And if/when it does, I won't be happy about it. I'm not as open minded about this subject as you are.....lol.

If I created an original character, I'd be creating him/her with a particular look, backstory, and character traits. That's my character - that's how I envisioned the character.

I wouldn't want someone coming along years down the road to make an adaptation of that character and make major changes. I'd be pissed and offended.

Minor changes? Fine. I'd expect that.

But major, drastic changes? No. I wouldn't be ok with that.

Agreed.

 

[X Knight]

Which is extremely stupid and outdated reasoning, and runs completely counter to the very concept of adaptation itself.

The world would be a much better place if people weren't so "stuck in their ways" when it comes to certain things, but, thankfully, you've got areas like the James Bond fandom and the theater industry where this kind of thinking isn't an issue.



I doubt that happened, but it ought to have.

so, let's say they adapted Cassandra Cain Batgirl in a future Batman film.

Cassandra Cain is half white/half Asian. She's a highly trained assassin. And she was mute for the most part of her life.

Would you then be ok if they made movie Cassandra into a typical white, All American blonde girl with an airhead, typical "dumb blonde" personality whose got a blackbelt in Karate from her local McDojo?

By your standard, you should be ok with that, I guess.......

 

[X Knight]

oh, and for the next X-Men reboot, I propose the following:

Cyclops is a fat, bald Puerto Rican who grew up in the slums. Jean is a rich Chinese girl with a phoenix tattooed on her back. And Storm is a Native American who comes from a long line of "Weather Shamans" in her tribe. Oh, and Storm is in a lesbian relationship with Jean.

I mean. look at that diversity!! Not just in terms of race and nationality, but also body sizes, sexual orientation, and socio-economic backgrounds.

Other than that, they all have the same powers as their traditional counterparts.