Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread - Part 1

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People telling me to accept a possible character arc for Peter (from being paired with Tony to being on his own) yet they can't accept a character arc for Mary Jane. :funny:
 
Giving MJ a character arc could be more interesting than the love rollercoaster and getting kidnapped repeatedly of SM 1-3.

But giving her the wrong character arc is not more interesting.

As I said above, why not give Macbeth's character arc to Peter? Because that's not his arc? Well, "She's All That" is not Mary Jane's arc.


People telling me to accept a possible character arc for Peter (from being paired with Tony to being on his own) yet they can't accept a character arc for Mary Jane. :funny:


Well since you're ready to accept any character arc, as long as it's an arc, how about we make Peter a selfish and arrogant surgeon whose hands are wrecked in an accident, and he seeks out various cures and enlightenment in Tibet until he finds new purpose? That could be a great character arc for him. :o
 
She may still end up being kidnapped and used as bait in this. Heck, any of Pete's loves may end up that way. It's too early to tell.

Did Gwen get kidnapped in ASM1?

Because if she was that would be 5 movies in a row where Parker's girlfriend was kidnapped. :doh:
 
So if she is like Basket Case/Hermione/Laney Boggs, the storyline for them will probably go something like this, right?

Peter and Flash compete over Liz, but in the end Liz goes to the homecoming dance with Flash (perhaps because Peter being busy as Spider-Man let her down or missed his chance or whaterver), so Peter is alone at the Homecoming Dance, but then Zendaya who previously dressed in sweatpants and had messy hair and was just a friend appears in a stunning dress with beautiful hair that's now dyed red. Maybe she remarks to Peter he has "hit the jackpot" and they dance.

Something like that?
 
So if she is like Basket Case/Hermione/Laney Boggs, the storyline for them will probably go something like this, right?

Peter and Flash compete over Liz, but in the end Liz goes to the homecoming dance with Flash (perhaps because Peter being busy as Spider-Man let her down or missed his chance or whaterver), so Peter is alone at the Homecoming Dance, but then Zendaya who previously dressed in sweatpants and had messy hair and was just a friend appears in a stunning dress with beautiful hair that's now dyed red. Maybe she remarks to Peter he has "hit the jackpot" and they dance.

Something like that?

That's hopefully how they'd go with it.
 
Did Gwen get kidnapped in ASM1?

Because if she was that would be 5 movies in a row where Parker's girlfriend was kidnapped. :doh:

Given that bad guys try to hit Peter Parker where it hurts yeah, his love interest tend to get kidnapped.

Which is another reason why I think they should have went with someone like Felicia Hardy here. Different lesson, different attitude, different motivation, different tie to villains and a female Spidey character/love interest who can actually beat the **** out of people and fight the villains Parker does.
 
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But giving her the wrong character arc is not more interesting.

What character arc is the right one when you're drawing inspiration from three different narratives? Mary Jane's character arc in Ultimate Spider-Man is not like her character arc in Spider-Man loves Mary Jane, which is not like her character arc in 616. And we're using a loose definition of character arc when talking about MJ's character development in Amazing Spider-Man, because neither Lee nor Romita had the ASM#122 prologue in mind when they introduced Mary Jane.
 
Well since you're ready to accept any character arc, as long as it's an arc, how about we make Peter a selfish and arrogant surgeon whose hands are wrecked in an accident, and he seeks out various cures and enlightenment in Tibet until he finds new purpose? That could be a great character arc for him. :o

Where'd you get that from, pricklepuss? I mean, I know making sarcastic comments is your general thing but that claim has no basis whatsoever.

I just found it funny how people got up-in-arms over me and a few others not wanting to have wait to see Peter Parker be independent, yet some of those same people are upset with Mary Jane potentially going through an arc to go from zero to bombshell.
 
So if she is like Basket Case/Hermione/Laney Boggs, the storyline for them will probably go something like this, right?

Peter and Flash compete over Liz, but in the end Liz goes to the homecoming dance with Flash (perhaps because Peter being busy as Spider-Man let her down or missed his chance or whaterver), so Peter is alone at the Homecoming Dance, but then Zendaya who previously dressed in sweatpants and had messy hair and was just a friend appears in a stunning dress with beautiful hair that's now dyed red. Maybe she remarks to Peter he has "hit the jackpot" and they dance.

Something like that?

That sounds perfect.
 
I'm just catching up with this whole thing. If this is true then for me it is a let down, because the casting doesn't look like it's even attempting to give the character her signature hair colour, and that to me is a problem because the character isn't being respected. We can try and argue that it doesn't matter about ethnicity but we all know if the situation was reversed, like as was shown with The Ancient One, people would be rightfully pissed. Either we accept that ethnicity is entirely fair game across the board, or we accept the characters for who they are a develop new ethnically diverse characters. The latter IMO is the best option because it gives us a chance to take our heroes in new directions.
 
Creating completely new ethnic characters and superheroes is definitely something the comic industry be it film or books really needs to focus on. It's almost always about replacing a legacy character or altering an established one.

Nothing wrong with introducing a completely new character.
 
What character arc is the right one when you're drawing inspiration from three different narratives? Mary Jane's character arc in Ultimate Spider-Man is not like her character arc in Spider-Man loves Mary Jane, which is not like her character arc in 616. And we're using a loose definition of character arc when talking about MJ's character development in Amazing Spider-Man, because neither Lee nor Romita had the ASM#122 prologue in mind when they introduced Mary Jane.

a character arc that doesn't change her into a totally opposite person look wise and personality wise.

I can't speak to Spider-Man Loves MJ because I never read that.

but in all the Spidey stuff I've read and seen and played throughout all these years, I've never seen MJ being portrayed as an ugly duckling "basket case" who blossoms and transforms into the hot super model chick.

Now, maybe there is such a version of MJ out there that I simply don't know about it. But if it does exist, it certainly isn't the "mainstream" image of the character.

Whether MJ is a fun loving party girl or a fellow nerd or Peter's super model wife, MJ has always been beautiful from the start. She's not the girl who needs a drastic makeover to become the character she's "supposed to be." If anything, she's the type of character who gives other girls like Liz or Gwen makeover tips.

MJ has never been an ugly duckling, awkward basket case character who undergoes a transformation story arc. To give her that arc, while potentially interesting, you would be totally changing the character.

Look at the Turtles. Each Turtle has distinct character traits that have stayed with the characters throughout all these years and throughout different medium and incarnations.

Leo is the strong leader. Donnie is the genius. Mikey is the party animal. Raphael is the rebel. Those core traits and personalities have stuck with the Turtles from way back when I used to watch them when I was a kid to what I see now in the current media.

It would like making a new Turtles movie where Leo starts out as an immature coward who "blossoms" into the strong, fearless leader by the end.

Or where Donnie acts more like a jock who hates science and learning, but after a close call with a villain, discovers he has a knack for inventing things and that inventing his is "true calling."

Or where Mikey is a serious stoic who can't stand eating pizza at first and who's too busy saving the world to party. But, by the end of the film, he loosens up a bit and shows his funny side more. oh, and he develops his love of pizza after trying one with anchovies.

Or where Raphael is initially a pacifist who eschews violence. but after the Shredder kills the love of his life, Raph becomes a violent vigilante.

These story arcs, while interesting, don't really fit the characters. Why? Because they have to change the characters into the complete opposite of what they are supposed to be in order for the characters to "grow" into their "true selves."

I'm all for interesting story arcs. but not ones that drastically change the character into something unrecognizable.
 
Reboots are tricky.

Do something too familiar and people will be bored quickly because it's redundant. Do something too different and people will claim you're disrespecting the source material.

We'll see if Marvel can find that evasive balance.
 
They sure won with the reaction of Spider-Man and Peter Parker in Civil War.
 
Here's an idea for all the whiners out there: instead of bashing this movie for not portraying the characters the way you want them to be portrayed, how about you stick to material that does and let the people who are open-minded enough to let the adaptation process play out like it's supposed to talk in peace.
 
Creating completely new ethnic characters and superheroes is definitely something the comic industry be it film or books really needs to focus on. It's almost always about replacing a legacy character or altering an established one.

Nothing wrong with introducing a completely new character.

Well, there's one thing wrong with it: It doesn't make money. Is anyone going to buy the issues of Mosaic they'll be putting out? Probably at least far fewer than people who'll be reading about Jane Foster, Amadeus Cho, Riri Williams, etc. because at least they have familiar names.
 
How plausible is Devin Faraci's theory about the reveal?
 
I'm so done with this fake name stuff. The only time when it actually worked was in Batman Begins because it was a clever realistic alternative to how Ra's stays immortal in the comics. After that the fake name/identity twist has never been satisfying, only annoying
 
I'm just catching up with this whole thing. If this is true then for me it is a let down, because the casting doesn't look like it's even attempting to give the character her signature hair colour, and that to me is a problem because the character isn't being respected. We can try and argue that it doesn't matter about ethnicity but we all know if the situation was reversed, like as was shown with The Ancient One, people would be rightfully pissed. Either we accept that ethnicity is entirely fair game across the board, or we accept the characters for who they are a develop new ethnically diverse characters. The latter IMO is the best option because it gives us a chance to take our heroes in new directions.

The fact that Asians are greatly underrepresented in U.S. media has more to do with the Ancient One controversy than source accuracy. None of these films exist in a vacuum.
 
Well, there's one thing wrong with it: It doesn't make money. Is anyone going to buy the issues of Mosaic they'll be putting out? Probably at least far fewer than people who'll be reading about Jane Foster, Amadeus Cho, Riri Williams, etc. because at least they have familiar names.

Oh I understand the money angle, but they are still selling off the name Thor, Hulk etc. When they revert back then where does that leave those characters?

Sooner or later Marvel will need someone new. Not just a temp replacement. They need to stop being scared of that.
 
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Oh I understand the money angle, but they are still selling off the name Thor, Hulk etc. When they revert back then where does that leave those characters?

Sooner or later Marvel will need someone new. Not just a temp replacement.

Oh, I agree with you that they should have original characters and I think temporarily replacing established heroes won't work. I just wanted to point out that they are in fact creating titles with new characters, but that they are usually cancelled due to low sales. It's an unfortunate consequence of people not buying things they aren't familiar with, and always putting the best artists on the biggest books probably doesn't help either.
 
Oh, I agree with you that they should have original characters and I think temporarily replacing established heroes won't work. I just wanted to point out that they are in fact creating titles with new characters, but that they are usually cancelled due to low sales. It's an unfortunate consequence of people not buying things they aren't familiar with, and always putting the best artists on the biggest books probably doesn't help either.

Gotcha. Yeah, creative teams make a difference. I don't think Marvel has tried their best with this tbh.

I'm hoping sooner or later new titles will become a trend. Indie books are different but hey works for Image!
 
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Where'd you get that from, pricklepuss? I mean, I know making sarcastic comments is your general thing but that claim has no basis whatsoever.

I just found it funny how people got up-in-arms over me and a few others not wanting to have wait to see Peter Parker be independent, yet some of those same people are upset with Mary Jane potentially going through an arc to go from zero to bombshell.

It's because that's not MJ...going from zero to bombshell.

It's also not like Peter to not be independent right away, but for the MCU it makes sense having Stark mentor him a little bit.

I think it's a big difference just having Stark being a mentor figure for Peter than changing who MJ is. Michelle Jackson isn't Mary Jane
 
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