Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread - Part 1

[Boom]

People can change from introverts into extroverts.

 

[Kurenai]

Creating completely new ethnic characters and superheroes is definitely something the comic industry be it film or books really needs to focus on. It's almost always about replacing a legacy character or altering an established one.

Nothing wrong with introducing a completely new character.

In comics, there is an issue, people don't give a crap about new characters, it is a fact that having the name Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, and Spider-Man sells the books b/c they are well known titles, retailers/ comic book shops have purposely not ordered or ordered very little of new comic character just to oversaturate the shop with the same popular and established heroes b/c they sell. And the best comic writers who have their own fans write for the already popular heroes.

Outside of DC and Marvel, you can probably be successful with creating a new character, but not inside, it's why Marvel is creating legacy characters who are under the Hulk or Thor title b/c they not only can get away with the diversity of those legacy characters, but it'll sell with a popular title, and gain those legacy characters an established audience who could then become a part of the fanbase that Marvel use if at any chance those legacy heroes change their hero names.

Also locations of the comic book shops and the demographic of the cities or counties those comic book shops reside in plays a part.

As for movies, since superhero comics are about 80 to 90 percent white heroes who have 30 to 50 plus years of storylines, in comparison to minority heroes who might have been around for that long but only have 5 to 10 years worth of storylines (which means you can only really make one movie about them), you can kind of see why Marvel or DC would racebend a character who's part of the mythos of an established white hero.

People can change from introverts into extroverts.

Eh, I don't think you can stop being an introvert, I'm an introvert, it can't happen.

There are in-betweens tho, extrovert-introvert or an introvert-extravert.

Now, if we're just talking shyness and awkwardness, those are all things that can be worked on and are not solely related to being an introvert.

 

[def28]

In comics, there is an issue, people don't give a crap about new characters, it is a fact that having the name Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, and Spider-Man sells the books b/c they are well known titles, retailers/ comic book shops have purposely not ordered or ordered very little of new comic character just to oversaturate the shop with the same popular and established heroes b/c they sell. And the best comic writers who have their own fans write for the already popular heroes.

Outside of DC and Marvel, you can probably be successful with creating a new character, but not inside, it's why Marvel is creating legacy characters who are under the Hulk or Thor title b/c they not only can get away with the diversity of those legacy characters, but it'll sell with a popular title, and gain those legacy characters an established audience who could then become a part of the fanbase that Marvel use if at any chance those legacy heroes change their hero names.

Also locations of the comic book shops and the demographic of the cities or counties those comic book shops reside in plays a part.

As for movies, since superhero comics are about 80 to 90 percent white heroes who have 30 to 50 plus years of storylines, in comparison to minority heroes who might have been around for that long but only have 5 to 10 years worth of storylines (which means you can only really make one movie about them), you can kind of see why Marvel or DC would racebend a character who's part of the mythos of an established white hero.

Based on what new characters though? How often has there been an actual effort to sell a new character with their own book without relying on a legacy character in the title. Silk is like the only one this decade.

Saying people don't care about new characters isn't true, because Marvel isn't and has not been trying that period this decade. This list is depressing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Comics_superhero_debuts

Film audiences sure care about new characters they are introduced to. GOTG sky rocketed and that reflected in comic sales. Most comic fans didn't even read that title and to film audiences these Marvel characters are new to them and are already classics. I find it very hard to believe that comic audiences don't like new characters either.

When it comes to diverse characters who can have their own it took us how long, like 7 years to get a Black Panther book back?Where's Blade? Runaways? Did Falcon even have a book without Captain America in the title since the 80s?

 

[CaptainWagner]

Based on what new characters though? How often has there been an actual effort to sell a new character with their own book without relying on a legacy character in the title. Silk is like the only one this decade.

Saying people don't care about new characters isn't true, because Marvel isn't and has not been trying that period this decade. This list is depressing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Comics_superhero_debuts

Film audiences sure care about new characters they are introduced to. GOTG sky rocketed and that reflected in comic sales. Most comic fans didn't even read that title and to film audiences these Marvel characters are new to them and are already classics. I find it very hard to believe that comic audiences don't like new characters either.

When it comes to diverse characters who can have their own it took us how long, like 7 years to get a Black Panther book back?Where's Blade? Runaways? Did Falcon even have a book without Captain America in the title since the 80s?

Exactly. They just aren't willing to take the risk. Which is sad, because as great as these legacy stories have been, and some of them have found long term staying power, like Kamala Kahn, Lady Thor, Cho-Hulk, and Captain Falcon aren't going to last forever. If they really want to improve diversity in their lineup, they need to be pushing characters like Puma, White Tiger, Blue Marvel, Cardiac. They don't even have to make up all-new characters, they've got a stable full of unique heroes just waiting for a chance at the big leagues.

 

[def28]

Would love to see a White Tiger book with a good creative team.

 

[Havok83]

Was this posted?


Guardians Of The Galaxy Director Spews Fire Over Nonsense Zendaya Casting Controversy

 

[Vampfox]

More Hollywood blackwashing meh.

 

[Kurenai]

Based on what new characters though? How often has there been an actual effort to sell a new character with their own book without relying on a legacy character in the title. Silk is like the only one this decade.

Saying people don't care about new characters isn't true, because Marvel isn't and has not been trying that period this decade. This list is depressing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Comics_superhero_debuts

Film audiences sure care about new characters they are introduced to. GOTG sky rocketed and that reflected in comic sales. Most comic fans didn't even read that title and to film audiences these Marvel characters are new to them and are already classics. I find it very hard to believe that comic audiences don't like new characters either.

When it comes to diverse characters who can have their own it took us how long, like 7 years to get a Black Panther book back?Where's Blade? Runaways? Did Falcon even have a book without Captain America in the title since the 80s?

You can believe what you want, but unless you've been waiting for representation, been wanting to read a comic book with a minority lead and went to a comic shop to find they're not even selling nor are they ever gonna stock up on a particular character b/c of the owners own personal bias, or dealt with comic shops or even realize how demographics of a city or county can play into the success of comics and seen for yourself what's preventing new racially diverse characters from succeeding you'll keep believing what you want.

Some geeks of color have wrote articles about this, and there's discussions about this all the time between geeks of color.

Also, you're addressing things I wrote about comics with what they can do with movies, of course Marvel or DC could insert a new original character into their movie mythos, and then introduce the same character into comics so that some of the movie fans who are gonna buy comics can possibly see that character there, but some comic fans don't want movies and the comics to mingle, so what about them are you gonna potentially turn them away.

In any case, Marvel and DC do need to put their foot down and create new and original characters, (hell they need to stop killing or shelf-ing their racially diverse characters and use them) they are the big dogs, they have the power, but with legacy characters taking up popular titles Marvel and DC can get away with stuff.

More Hollywood blackwashing meh.

No such thing.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Was this posted?


Guardians Of The Galaxy Director Spews Fire Over Nonsense Zendaya Casting Controversy

Haven't seen that yet. It's not really "nonsense", people have every right to not like the casting or think Marvel should've kept the traditional look of the character. That doesn't necessarily make anyone a racist bigot.

 

[X Knight]

Was this posted?


Guardians Of The Galaxy Director Spews Fire Over Nonsense Zendaya Casting Controversy

yeah. it's been posted.

ironically, Gunn nails MJ's character to a tee - alpha female playfulness.

and yet, from what we've seen and heard about Z's MJ, we are getting something essentially opposite to those so called "primary" character attributes.

it's also doubly ironic because the actress herself CAN exude and demonstrate those attributes ( alpha female playfulness ).

and yet, again, for some strange, infinite, bizarro world wisdom, they are deliberately suppressing that in their actress for a totally different take on the character.

so we can all get a nice surprise and reveal in the end where the character magically becomes the more traditional character we want to see.

it's all about those twists and surprise reveals at the end. gotta have those........

 

[X Knight]

Haven't seen that yet. It's not really "nonsense", people have every right to not like the casting or think Marvel should've kept the traditional look of the character. That doesn't necessarily make anyone a racist bigot.

exactly.

 

[KalvinEllis]

exactly.

I'm embarrassed that people like that can make a living by posting this crap. Why must every criticism to color-blind casting always boil down to bigotry? These people only report whatever they think gives them more clicks. They are the ones who perpetuate the racist fanboy stereotype, they are the ones with an agenda, not us.

 

[def28]

You can believe what you want, but unless you've been waiting for representation, been wanting to read a comic book with a minority lead and went to a comic shop to find they're not even selling nor are they ever gonna stock up on a particular character b/c of the owners own personal bias, or dealt with comic shops or even realize how demographics of a city or county can play into the success of comics and seen for yourself what's preventing new racially diverse characters from succeeding you'll keep believing what you want.

Some geeks of color have wrote articles about this, and there's discussions about this all the time between geeks of color.

Also, you're addressing things I wrote about comics with what they can do with movies, of course Marvel or DC could insert a new original character into their movie mythos, and then introduce the same character into comics so that some of the movie fans who are gonna buy comics can possibly see that character there, but some comic fans don't want movies and the comics to mingle, so what about them are you gonna potentially turn them away.

Believe what I want about what? I'm not following you here. What new solo books have they been pushing without character legacy? You were saying people don't give a crap about new characters. I have yet to see any real push to prove that. Or titles at all. Were you talking about the publishing companies not readers?

In any case, Marvel and DC do need to put their foot down and create new and original characters, (hell they need to stop killing or shelf-ing their racially diverse characters and use them) they are the big dogs, they have the power, but with legacy characters taking up popular titles Marvel and DC can get away with stuff.

Completely agree.

 

[X Knight]

I'm embarrassed that people like that can make a living by posting this crap. Why must every criticism to color-blind casting always boil down to bigotry? These people only report whatever they think gives them more clicks. They are the ones who perpetuate the racist fanboy stereotype, they are the ones with an agenda, not us.

yeah. I'm tired of it too.

I saw one headline saying something like "Everyone is in love with Zendaya playing MJ - except a few racist trolls."

Yes, there are racist trolls commenting on the internet.

but not everyone is in love with Zendaya playing MJ. and not everyone who disapproves of the choice is a racist internet troll.

I feel insulted being labelled a "racist fanboy or internet troll" because that is so far removed from who I am.

 

[Kurenai]

Haven't seen that yet. It's not really "nonsense", people have every right to not like the casting or think Marvel should've kept the traditional look of the character. That doesn't necessarily make anyone a racist bigot.

People only get called that b/c of the tone and the things they have said, some people don't express how comics are a visual medium and they fell in love with the comic visual of the character and are used to that like some people here, some people have said racist things plain and simple.

Obviously Gunn is talking about those people, if you have an issue with the generalization despite you not doing anything like those other ignorant people have done maybe you've made a comment you shouldn't have said.

Obviously the you in my statements is in general terms and not meaning you specifically.

 

[KalvinEllis]

yeah. I'm tired of it too.

I saw one headline saying something like "Everyone is in love with Zendaya playing MJ - except a few racist trolls."

Yes, there are racist trolls commenting on the internet.

but not everyone is in love with Zendaya playing MJ. and not everyone who disapproves of the choice is a racist internet troll.

I feel insulted being labelled a "racist fanboy or internet troll" because that is so far removed from who I am.

TheDailyBeast article started with "Face it, racists and haters..." That's to be expected of Jen Yamato, but this is just exhausting.

 

[KalvinEllis]

People only get called that b/c of the tone and the things they have said, some people don't express how comics are a visual medium and they fell in love with the comic visual of the character and are used to that like some people here, some people have said racist things plain and simple.

Obviously Gunn is talking about those people, if you have an issue with the generalization despite you not doing anything like those other ignorant people have done maybe you've made comment you shouldn't have said.

Obviously the you in my statements is in general term and not meaning you specifically.

I guess I just despise generalizing. It's why I'm not on twitter anymore, that place is an idiot toilet.

 

[X Knight]

TheDailyBeast article started with "Face it, racist and haters..." That's to be expected of Jen Yamato, but this is just exhausting.

yeah........you read that stuff and it's just........

I guess I just despise generalizing. It's why I'm not on twitter anymore, that place is an idiot toilet.

that's one reason why I like this site and have been here for more than a decade.

for the most part, the posters here discuss and debate ( often passionately ) but remain civil and respectful.

you go to other sites and boards and.........HOLY CRAP!!! it's a cesspool.

 

[KalvinEllis]

yeah........you read that stuff and it's just........



that's one reason why I like this site and have been here for more than a decade.

for the most part, the posters here discuss and debate ( often passionately ) but remain civil and respectful.

you go to other sites and boards and.........HOLY CRAP!!! it's a cesspool.

Yeah, I concur. These boards are a joy to visit, whether you agree with people or disagree. I genuinely get a kick out of posting here, even if I had a more heated argument with somebody.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Haven't seen that yet. It's not really "nonsense", people have every right to not like the casting or think Marvel should've kept the traditional look of the character. That doesn't necessarily make anyone a racist bigot.

However, if someone were to engage in the extreme of saying they didn't want the N-word as MJ then they would be a racist bigot, but no one on here has done that. Maybe on other forums or Facebook, Twitter or wherever but not here. And if someone does engage in that extreme... screw that person and their hate.

I can be unhappy about the possible casting because I wanted a traditional look for the character and an actual redhead play her, but at the end of the day... I'm not the one in charge or signing the checks to be cashed. It's Marvel and Sony's call and I can complain all day about how I wanted a more traditional MJ, Liz, Ned, Sally, or Flash but they're the studios making the call. I'm just a fan like others venting my frustrations and concerns.

 

[Dark Raven]

Can we get the title of this thread changed to Zendaya is MJ? Because those initials might not even stand for Mary Jane but Michelle Johnson or something else.

 

[Havok83]

Can we get the title of this thread changed to Zendaya is MJ? Because those initials might not even stand for Mary Jane but Michelle Johnson or something else.

Yeah I think the title change was a bit premature without anything actual official from Sony or Disney/Marvel

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

More Hollywood blackwashing meh.

Doesn't exist. Meh.

 

[Kurenai]

Believe what I want about what? I'm not following you here. What new solo books have they been pushing without character legacy? You were saying people don't give a crap about new characters. I have yet to see any real push to prove that. Or titles at all. Or are you talking about the publishing companies? Not readers.

Completely agree.

Saying people don't care about new characters isn't true

This is what I referring to.

As for you questions, the big two haven't really been pushing for new characters, and the ones that they have tried to create in the past haven't worked out, my statement on how readers (b/c that is who I am referring to) don't care about new characters is talking about new minority characters as well even legacy characters who are minorities or even old establish minority characters, sorry for not clarifying.

It seems Marvel and DC are aware how new original non-legacy characters have sold in the past and have stopped trying, and used an alternative method, as stated before Marvel and DC have the power to put their foot down and really do something, but they want instant gratification in terms of money and they're not gonna do that by printing a book that's gonna take a while to gain some fans and to them waste money printing a book that's not giving them sales.

Can we get the title of this thread changed to Zendaya is MJ? Because those initials might not even stand for Mary Jane but Michelle Johnson or something else.

I concur.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Based on what new characters though? How often has there been an actual effort to sell a new character with their own book without relying on a legacy character in the title. Silk is like the only one this decade.

Saying people don't care about new characters isn't true, because Marvel isn't and has not been trying that period this decade. This list is depressing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Comics_superhero_debuts

Film audiences sure care about new characters they are introduced to. GOTG sky rocketed and that reflected in comic sales. Most comic fans didn't even read that title and to film audiences these Marvel characters are new to them and are already classics. I find it very hard to believe that comic audiences don't like new characters either.

When it comes to diverse characters who can have their own it took us how long, like 7 years to get a Black Panther book back?Where's Blade? Runaways? Did Falcon even have a book without Captain America in the title since the 80s?

Technically Hit Monkey and Alpha had their own books as well, but neither of them are diverse and both failed.

At least they're now giving a new diverse character a book with Mosaic.

Their approach seems to have been to introduce diverse characters on team books or as side characters, but most of them haven't really gotten their time to shine. As far as diverse non-legacy heroes since 2010 go, there are the likes of White Fox, Blindspot, Pod, Abyss, Mettle, Striker, Protector, Sarah Garza, Sera and most nuhumans, such as Inferno, Flint, Iso, Naja, Synapse, Grid, Ulysses, Gloriana, Captain Swain, and a couple more.

Then there are a couple who are technically legacy characters but who are either:
1. legacy characters in name only: Cullen Bloodstone
2. legacy characters for obscure or forgotten characters: Night Mask
3. both: America Chavez and Moon Girl

Not really much to write home about, but I think that at least a couple of these characters have potential for a larger role.