Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread - Part 1

[PeterBenParker]

It's because that's not MJ...going from zero to bombshell.

It's also not like Peter to not be independent right away, but for the MCU it makes sense having Stark mentor him a little bit.

I think it's a big difference just having Stark being a mentor figure for Peter than changing who MJ is. Michelle Jackson isn't Mary Jane

Traditionally, no it's not.

However, they could be going that route and if it pays off (which is probably likely because Marvel mostly always does with these kinds of changes with a few exceptions, namely Iron Man 3), then the concerns largely would've been for nothing.

 

[harryoscop]

It's because that's not MJ...going from zero to bombshell.

It's also not like Peter to not be independent right away, but for the MCU it makes sense having Stark mentor him a little bit.

I think it's a big difference just having Stark being a mentor figure for Peter than changing who MJ is. Michelle Jackson isn't Mary Jane

Why is that? Peter never had a mentor figure in the comics or cartoons, he was 100% an independent hero who relied on no one. So why does it suddenly make sense that MCU Spider-Man (A version of the same character) have a mentor and not be independent like every other version of Spider-Man?

 

[X Knight]

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/08/19/why-would-zendayas-spider-man-role-be-a-reveal

you either have the character of Mary Jane or you don't. she's either called Mary Jane or she's not.

don't try to get cutesy with the name with a new character named Michelle J who then becomes MJ at the end of the film.

if you can't even give the character the proper first name, then why bother?

just create your own original character named Michelle, where you can play out your Breakfast Club basket case inspired story arc to your hearts content without altering an already established, iconic, and popular character.

why not change Peter's first name to Paul - after all he'd still be PP ( Paul Parker )......right??

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Thing is MJ always created the party fun girl persona to escape her problems. In the comics and other sources you meet her after she created the persona. In this movie, we are meeting her before. Simple as that. And like others have mentioned, it is a variation of the shock reveal we got in the comics.

 

[PeterBenParker]

To add, how many times have we've seen changes over the course of the Spider-Man films in terms of characters? We had Mary Jane in the Raimi films, but she was largely spliced with Liz and Gwen. We've had Gwen in the 3rd film, but she was kinda-sorta MJ..at least the modelling aspect. Move onto the TASM series and we had another mix of characters to create their Gwen Stacy.

Peter Parker certainly isn't exempt of this, either as Tobey Maguire was largely a 1960s caricature in the original trilogy who never really grew with his alter-ego. Andrew Garfield was deemed, too hipsterey or too James Dean-y for Peter Parker. And now Tom Holland, while having the bare necessities as did the other two, is also a different Peter Parker in terms of his reckless and naive attitude.

Point is, if they hadn't taken from page-to-screen before with characters 100% in the past, why would they really now? Heck, even the MCU heroes which are often praised the most are exactly 100% portrayals in terms of character on page to character on screen. I'm not a fan of the decisions sometimes, but it depends on the direction of it, too. If they're really going with the John Hughes aspect, then having a transformation of a character from start to end isn't the worst thing in the world..at least to me.

It's not Mary Jane Watson everyone knows, but neither was Raimi and that series got off okay. TAS had a mix of MJ along with Gwen and that did alright. TNAS also changed the character but she wasn't a bad Mary Jane by any means. SSM changed Gwen and nobody took issue with that.

..Then again, this film is already changing characters or mixing hybrids or whatever you want to call it, so a lot of the fan issues with MJ presented are just piled onto everything else.

At this rate, if changes are really going to bother you, better off just sticking to comics or cartoons you enjoy if you don't feel like waiting for the film to either ease your mind or cement your fears.

 

[harryoscop]

you either have the character of Mary Jane or you don't. she's either called Mary Jane or she's not.

don't try to get cutesy with the name with a new character named Michelle J who then becomes MJ at the end of the film.

if you can't even give the character the proper first name, then why bother?

just create your own original character named Michelle, where you can play out your Breakfast Club basket case inspired story arc to your hearts content without altering an already established, iconic, and popular character.

why not change Peter's first name to Paul - after all he'd still be PP ( Paul Parker )......right??

Pretty much. It's beyond unnecessary and contrived

 

[X Knight]

Why is that? Peter never had a mentor figure in the comics or cartoons, he was 100% an independent hero who relied on no one. So why does it suddenly make sense that MCU Spider-Man (A version of the same character) have a mentor and not be independent like every other version of Spider-Man?

I agree to an extent. it just depends on how extensive the Stark relationship is.

There's nothing wrong with Peter having a mentor figure. In past incarnations, Dr. Connors often filled that role. In the MCU, it does make some sense that Stark would be his mentor.

the problem arises if this relationship totally robs Peter of his "every man" status. One of the appeals of Spidey has always been that he has to deal with real world problems while being a hero.

Some of the best stories have been where Peter is struggling for money to help pay the bills or pay for his Aunt's medicine ( he really needs to sell those Spidey pics to the Bugle ). but, as Parker luck would have it, he's run out of web fluid. He doesn't have enough money to do both ( pay bill or make more fluid ). So Peter has to sacrifice something.

You lose that aspect of the character if Stark suddenly becomes his provider and "sponsor." Stark pays his rent. Stark provides all the web fluid and gadgets. etc.

that's one problem I had with the Ultimate tv show. Instead of Stark, it was Fury/Shield that became Peter's "provider."

 

[Web-Head]

Why is that? Peter never had a mentor figure in the comics or cartoons, he was 100% an independent hero who relied on no one. So why does it suddenly make sense that MCU Spider-Man (A version of the same character) have a mentor and not be independent like every other version of Spider-Man?

Because it's the MCU. We're not even sure what role Tony will play in Homecoming though.

 

[X Knight]

To add, how many times have we've seen changes over the course of the Spider-Man films in terms of characters? We had Mary Jane in the Raimi films, but she was largely spliced with Liz and Gwen. We've had Gwen in the 3rd film, but she was kinda-sorta MJ..at least the modelling aspect. Move onto the TASM series and we had another mix of characters to create their Gwen Stacy.

Peter Parker certainly isn't exempt of this, either as Tobey Maguire was largely a 1960s caricature in the original trilogy who never really grew with his alter-ego. Andrew Garfield was deemed, too hipsterey or too James Dean-y for Peter Parker. And now Tom Holland, while having the bare necessities as did the other two, is also a different Peter Parker in terms of his reckless and naive attitude.

Point is, if they hadn't taken from page-to-screen before with characters 100% in the past, why would they really now? Heck, even the MCU heroes which are often praised the most are exactly 100% portrayals in terms of character on page to character on screen. I'm not a fan of the decisions sometimes, but it depends on the direction of it, too. If they're really going with the John Hughes aspect, then having a transformation of a character from start to end isn't the worst thing in the world..at least to me.

It's not Mary Jane Watson everyone knows, but neither was Raimi and that series got off okay. TAS had a mix of MJ along with Gwen and that did alright. TNAS also changed the character but she wasn't a bad Mary Jane by any means. SSM changed Gwen and nobody took issue with that.

..Then again, this film is already changing characters or mixing hybrids or whatever you want to call it, so a lot of the fan issues with MJ presented are just piled onto everything else.

At this rate, if changes are really going to bother you, better off just sticking to comics or cartoons you enjoy if you don't feel like waiting for the film to either ease your mind or cement your fears.

unfortunately, that's what it looks like will happen the way this project is going.

and in regards to MJ, it's true, we haven't really seen a truly comic accurate portrayal of the character. that's why I was really looking forward to this film. I figured in the hands of Marvel, the chances of finally getting a more comic accurate version of the character would be high. sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case......

and there will always be variations and changes and splices and mixes done to these characters in these adaptations. I fully expect that. But the core of the character has to remain. The character can't be so drastically altered that he or she becomes unrecognizable to me. cuz then, it's not really the character anymore.

and that's what I'm seeing in this project. not just from MJ but pretty much the entire HS class. I literally don't recognize any character.

 

[Havok83]

Why is that? Peter never had a mentor figure in the comics or cartoons, he was 100% an independent hero who relied on no one. So why does it suddenly make sense that MCU Spider-Man (A version of the same character) have a mentor and not be independent like every other version of Spider-Man?

Not exactly true. He has mentors in Ultimate Spider-man the comic and cartoon

 

[harryoscop]

Because it's the MCU. We're not even sure what role Tony will play in Homecoming though.

..And? So he's in the MCU, why does Stark have to be heavily involved in Peter's life?

 

[Doctor Octopus]

I hope she not MJ. I want classic look MJ.

 

[Havok83]

..And? So he's in the MCU, why does Stark have to be heavily involved in Peter's life?

CW already covered that. Not well IMO, but we have motivation for why Tony takes interest in Peter. I do kind of feel like he has a moral responsibility to mentor the kid

 

[Amadeus Arkham]

...and because he wants to bang Peter's aunt.

 

[harryoscop]

Not exactly true. He has mentors in Ultimate Spider-man the comic and cartoon

The cartoon I don't even count as Spider-Man. Those writers couldn't care less about how fans feel about that horrible show (said it themselves) and they don't understand the character. It's garbage imo. And in Ultimate comic-- the only one you could count as a sort of mentor are 1) Nick Fury-- who showed up randomly or whenever something terrible happened to clean up the mess. He wasn't making Peter's iconic costume, all of his tech and trying to bone his Aunt. -- 2) Captain America who Peter looked up to (even took a bullet for him out of respect) but he wasn't an uber fanboy noob who followed him around like an over-attached Puppy and couldn't function for himself and do what ever he tells him.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Not exactly true. He has mentors in Ultimate Spider-man the comic and cartoon

Cartoon, especially. Yeesh it's bad.

 

[PeterBenParker]

unfortunately, that's what it looks like will happen the way this project is going.

And dude, don't get me wrong, I absolutely feel your pain on some decisions made thus far but it's basically the only Spider-Man we'll have right now until the Animated project gets under way, and we have no idea what that'll entail.

and in regards to MJ, it's true, we haven't really seen a truly comic accurate portrayal of the character. that's why I was really looking forward to this film. I figured in the hands of Marvel, the chances of finally getting a more comic accurate version of the character would be high. sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case......

As of right now, no it doesn't. Still, I'm holding out hope because I've been a pretty big advocate of Z in the role of Mary Jane but now with grumblings that she may not even be MARY JANE but just Michelle (insert last name with J) to fill a sorta MJ void..eh, I really don't know about that decision if it turns out true.

and there will always be variations and changes and splices and mixes done to these characters in these adaptations. I fully expect that. But the core of the character has to remain. The character can't be so drastically altered that he or she becomes unrecognizable to me. cuz then, it's not really the character anymore.

and that's what I'm seeing in this project. not just from MJ but pretty much the entire HS class. I literally don't recognize any character.

Yeah, it just seems like MJ is the one that got the biggest uproar thus far which has kinda bothered me because nobody has really taken issue with Aunt 'Mei, mentor Tony Stark who's basically giving Peter things he's known for making himself, an unrecognizable Vulture, etc.

Eh.

 

[X Knight]

And dude, don't get me wrong, I absolutely feel your pain on some decisions made thus far but it's basically the only Spider-Man we'll have right now until the Animated project gets under way, and we have no idea what that'll entail.



As of right now, no it doesn't. Still, I'm holding out hope because I've been a pretty big advocate of Z in the role of Mary Jane but now with grumblings that she may not even be MARY JANE but just Michelle (insert last name with J) to fill a sorta MJ void..eh, I really don't know about that decision if it turns out true.



Yeah, it just seems like MJ is the one that got the biggest uproar thus far which has kinda bothered me because nobody has really taken issue with Aunt 'Mei, mentor Tony Stark who's basically giving Peter things he's known for making himself, an unrecognizable Vulture, etc.

Eh.

ay!! you have much more optimism than I do. May the Hope be with you!! t:

but in regards to the Animated film, didn't they already say that was going to focus on Miles Spider-Man? or did I hear/read wrong?

cuz if it's Miles, I have no interest ( it's not my Spider-Man ).

 

[PeterBenParker]

ay!! you have much more optimism than I do. May the Hope be with you!! t:

Appreciate it.

but in regards to the Animated film, didn't they already say that was going to focus on Miles Spider-Man? or did I hear/read wrong?

cuz if it's Miles, I have no interest ( it's not my Spider-Man ).

That was the original rumors, but it's hard to buy it at the moment with a lot of Miles stuff -- seemingly -- being injected into Spider-Man Homecoming.

 

[harryoscop]

Maybe we'll get our traditional Spidey fix with SONY's animated film.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Maybe we'll get our traditional Spidey fix with SONY's animated film.

Avi Arad and Matt Tolmach are attached. Good luck with that one.

 

[harryoscop]

Avi Arad and Matt Tolmach are attached. Good luck with that one.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if their version of Spidey ended up respecting the source material while Homecoming is mishmashing and making INO characters, excluding the DB and making Peter a Tony Stark flunky?

 

[PeterBenParker]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if their version of Spidey ended up respecting the source material while Homecoming is mishmashing and making INO characters, excluding the DB and making Peter a Tony Stark flunky?

I'd laugh. A lot.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Thing is MJ always created the party fun girl persona to escape her problems. In the comics and other sources you meet her after she created the persona. In this movie, we are meeting her before. Simple as that. And like others have mentioned, it is a variation of the shock reveal we got in the comics.

This is the point I was basically trying to make awhile back when the whole MJ/Michelle debate started...

616 MJ, when we meet her is already fully entrenched as the fun/party girl. Meeting her in HS allows for potential changes to be made that would or could show a progression into the party-type fun girl. And we all know, this isn't the truth of her character as she uses that party girl image as a mask to cover her problems. She doesn't want to let anyone know she's hurting.

I have no idea if this is how stuff is gonna play out and I'm very concerned how it does, cause I love MJ. She's a truly wonderful character and one that really needs to be portrayed well. Finally we have a chance to see that come to light and I'm both anxious and excited. But, this is an adaptation of the source material, in fact, there's many sources they can pull ideas from. As long as they maintain the core truth of MJ's character, I've no issue with certain variations on other aspects.

Avi Arad and Matt Tolmach are attached. Good luck with that one.

Please don't remind me

 

[Havok83]

Thing is MJ always created the party fun girl persona to escape her problems. In the comics and other sources you meet her after she created the persona. In this movie, we are meeting her before. Simple as that. And like others have mentioned, it is a variation of the shock reveal we got in the comics.

thematically it doesnt make sense for her to create that after meeting Peter and gaining a social support in him and a group of friends