Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread - Part 1

[harryoscop]

And set pictures show nothing that makes these hints believable.

We've only gotten four set photos of one outfit and one scene which we have zero context of...

 

[X Knight]

We've only gotten four set photos of one outfit and one scene which we have zero context of...

we've also gotten a character description straight from the actress herself. which matches the set pics. which also match descriptions of the character made by people who have seen the CC footage.

 

[Dark Raven]

Lol I'm picturing Mary Jane in my head as Buddy Love.

"I went from frumpy to fabulous!"

And there's Pearl (Sherman's mother) behind Michelle going, "Mary Jane! Mary Jane!"

Eddie could play Aunt Anna as well. I'm sure he could even play Uncle Ben in flashbacks.

 

[harryoscop]

we've also gotten a character description straight from the actress herself. which matches the set pics. which also match descriptions of the character made by people who have seen the CC footage.

None of which would allude to or showcase any of these "hints". The article said she drops hints 'throughout' the movie not in just one scene alone. And Mayimbe & Vulture said it all leads up to the reveal in the third act.

 

[Dark Raven]

What if Michelle goes through a makeover to impress Peter and she becomes "Mary Jane" halfway through the movie instead of at the end as people are expecting? But then the moral of the story and her arc is that she doesn't need to have a makeover and she should just be herself. So Peter tells her that although he may have hit the jackpot, he loves her just the way she is and wants to see the real her, so at the end of the movie she reverts back to the frumpy and socially awkward girl that she started as at the beginning. And the arc could be about accepting oneself instead of trying to be someone you're not.

Maybe Michelle realises that she was acceptable to Peter all along and didn't need to become "MJ" or "Mary Jane" and that she always fitted in, but needed to see it for herself and have a better self image.

After all, isn't that often how these teen movie arcs are like actually?

 

[X Knight]

None of which would allude to or showcase any of these "hints". The article said she drops hints 'throughout' the movie not in just one scene alone. And Mayimbe & Vulture said it all leads up to the reveal in the third act.

and none of that negates how I feel that she shouldn't even need to "drop hints" or "reveal" herself at the end as MJ. she shouldn't need to have that kind of story arc when it makes her start in a place that's totally opposite to what her character should be.

even if they reveal her at the end to be "classic" MJ, that doesn't negate the fact that for most of the movie, she looks and acts like a totally different character who may also be going by a different name for most of the film.

 

[harryoscop]

and none of that negates how I feel that she shouldn't even need to "drop hints" or "reveal" herself at the end as MJ. she shouldn't need to have that kind of story arc when it makes her start in a place that's totally opposite to what her character should be.

even if they reveal her at the end to be "classic" MJ, that doesn't negate the fact that for most of the movie, she looks and acts like a totally different character who may also be going by a different name for most of the film.

As long as she gets there, man. It's basically the same arc as Comic MJ pre-Gwen's death just in reverse. She creates a mask because she's trying to hide the hurt inside & issues with her family life (which could be the case here). MJ basically going through the same journey in Homecoming (from what we've heard) there's hints and pieces of her true self but it's all suppressed inside of this nerdy, archetype shell she's created.

 

[Moridin]

Not if said "News" is published on 'The Wrap' and corroborated by several other sources.

If you want to ignore it, that's fine but don't expect everybody else to do the same, especially when there's a ton of evidence stacking up in it's favor.

Someone with info to project and say? they never said that in the article. And That's generally how all of these Trade sites work, they get their info from a 'source' which in this case was 'two individuals with knowledge of the project'. Going by that logic, we shouldn't trust Variety or the Hollywood Reporter.

OK, I've been out of the loop of the Spider-Man goings on for a while, hadn't paid much attention to all this. So I've been doing some googling on it, aaaand..... everything I've read leads back to El Mayimbe.

You say it's been "corroborated by several other sources", could you link me to them? Because literally every article I've read on it cites Eh Mightbe's "report" (and what an unconvincing report it is "Signs point to", " two individuals with knowledge of the project", "At least one recent draft of the script has Zendaya’s character dropping several clues to her identity as Mary Jane") on The Wrap.

Can I ask why the f*** anyone is putting any stock in what that clown is saying? Not just putting stock in it, but treating it as gospel?


As for the final bolded line of your post, it's interesting that Variety and THR haven't reported on this rumour at all.

 

[harryoscop]

OK, I've been out of the loop of the Spider-Man goings on for a while, hadn't paid much attention to all this. So I've been doing some googling on it, aaaand..... everything I've read leads back to El Mayimbe.

You say it's been "corroborated by several other sources", could you link me to them? Because literally every article I've read on it cites Eh Mightbe's "report" (and what an unconvincing report it is "Signs point to", " two individuals with knowledge of the project", "At least one recent draft of the script has Zendaya’s character dropping several clues to her identity as Mary Jane") on The Wrap.

Can I ask why the f*** anyone is putting any stock in what that clown is saying? Not just putting stock in it, but treating it as gospel?


As for the final bolded line of your post, it's interesting that Variety and THR haven't reported on this rumour at all.

Uhh, this argument is so tiring. Everybody keeps asking who are these other sources or why the hell is anybody trusting a guy with such a a 50/50 track record. I'll brief you since you haven't been on. Here's the two sources who say she's playing 'MJ': http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/08/19/why-would-zendayas-spider-man-role-be-a-reveal http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/zendaya-is-playing-an-iconic-spider-man-role.html

According to Vulture's own sources, Michelle's real identity was a twist meant to be confirmed near the end of the film when she would finally invite Peter to call her "M.J.,

[They're a Hollywood tabloid which a subsidiary of New York Magazine which has been active since the 60s]


And why do we trust Mayimbe? Simple: Because he's working for The Wrap now which is a Trade site just like Variety and Hollywood Reporter. His playing field is completely different now. And The Wrap has a 90% track record, they would NEVER let Mayimbe publish that article on their site if it were bullcrap, that's why it says "has told The Wrap" because they obviously checked with some of their in-house sources.


Another point of interest is the fact that Jon Watts is completely silent on the matter which is inherently odd because he literally debunked the "Micheal Barbieri is playing Ganke Lee" rumor less than two days after it went viral. Surely he would've did the same for this rumor as well, considering it was reported on national TV (NBC).


James Gunn commented on the rumor as well on Facebook, defended the casting and he said himself "i'll find out if it's true or not, guys" and he hasn't said anything since he wrote the post & we know Gunn is one to regularly debunk BS rumors.


Stan Lee defended the casting as well and we know he only approves on a controversal change if Marvel themselves are doing it, which is why he didn't approve of a Gay Peter Parker or Non-white Peter Parker because Marvel had no plans in place to make those changes. If they were, Stan would've approved of those choices too.


Either way, the evidence for this 'rumor' being true is certainly piling up nicely.

 

[X Knight]

As long as she gets there, man. It's basically the same arc as Comic MJ pre-Gwen's death just in reverse. She creates a mask because she's trying to hide the hurt inside & issues with her family life (which could be the case here). MJ basically going through the same journey in Homecoming (from what we've heard) there's hints and pieces of her true self but it's all suppressed inside of this nerdy, archetype shell she's created.

yeah. except as I've pointed out, the "shell" she creates in Homecoming is the opposite of the shell she's supposed to create. MJ is supposed to be extroverted while Homecoming MJ introverts.

the end result may be the same of getting classic MJ, and you may be ok with it, but I don't very much like this direction.

if they wanted to give a her a shell/façade/mask, why not simply do it more like the comics where the carefree, perfect, popular party girl is the façade? especially since we have yet to get that accurately portrayed in the films. Raimi MJ only touched upon that.

anyways, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

You may be fine with the arc/direction they are going for in Homecoming, but I am far less accepting of it.

 

[X Knight]

Uhh, this argument is so tiring. Everybody keeps asking who are these other sources or why the hell is anybody trusting a guy with such a a 50/50 track record. I'll brief you since you haven't been on. Here's the two sources who say she's playing 'MJ': http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/08/19/why-would-zendayas-spider-man-role-be-a-reveal http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/zendaya-is-playing-an-iconic-spider-man-role.html
[They're a Hollywood tabloid which a subsidiary of New York Magazine which has been active since the 60s]


And why do we trust Mayimbe? Simple: Because he's working for The Wrap now which is a Trade site just like Variety and Hollywood Reporter. His playing field is completely different now. And The Wrap has a 90% track record, they would NEVER let Mayimbe publish that article on their site if it were bullcrap, that's why it says "has told The Wrap" because they obviously checked with some of their in-house sources.


Another point of interest is the fact that Jon Watts is completely silent on the matter which is inherently odd because he literally debunked the "Micheal Barbieri is playing Ganke Lee" rumor less than two days after it went viral. Surely he would've did the same for this rumor as well, considering it was reported on national TV (NBC).


James Gunn commented on the rumor as well on Facebook, defended the casting and he said himself "i'll find out if it's true or not, guys" and he hasn't said anything since he wrote the post & we know Gunn is one to regularly debunk BS rumors.


Stan Lee defended the casting as well and we know he only approves on a controversal change if Marvel themselves are doing it, which is why he didn't approve of a Gay Peter Parker or Non-white Peter Parker because Marvel had no plans in place to make those changes. If they were, Stan would've approved of those choices too.


Either way, the evidence for this 'rumor' being true is certainly piling up nicely.

notice the Vulture repot said, she would invite Peter to call her "MJ" at the end.

if that's the extent of the reveal, then that does not actually guarantee she will get a makeover/transformation.

 

[Venomfan]

If those leaks are to be believed, that this was a different character that was changed at the last minute, then there is no argument to say she will be a great MJ, she was playing an entirely different character who's name was changed

 

[UltimateMarvel]

I don't buy those rumors. Michelle and Manuel were probably cover names.

 

[Chris B]

I'm willing to give this bit of casting a chance, but I also hope that the notion of the character's name being something like Michelle Johnson and not actually Mary Jane isn't true. As others suggested, just have Michelle be her middle name or Peter wrongly thinking that is her name due to not actually knowing her.

 

[The Infernal]

I'm willing to give this bit of casting a chance, but I also hope that the notion of the character's name being something like Michelle Johnson and not actually Mary Jane isn't true. As others suggested, just have Michelle be her middle name or Peter wrongly thinking that is her name due to not actually knowing her.

A running gag of getting her name wrong would be funny I think. Makes me think of Jessica Jones having a crush on Peter in high school and her not knowing who she was back then. Though that could be a bit weird for someone like Mary Jane.

Though for me if the character doesn't look, act or is even called Mary Jane then I don't know what's left to say she is that character. Guess we'll have to wait for the reveal to find out the truth.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

notice the Vulture repot said, she would invite Peter to call her "MJ" at the end.

if that's the extent of the reveal, then that does not actually guarantee she will get a makeover/transformation.

Yeah, I was just noticing that. I know I have been giving them the benefit of the doubt and telling everyone here to wait and see. But if they go with her just being Michelle J_____ and being just the way she has been described in the film, I will be very disappointed.

If Zendaya is intended to the MJ of this MCU Spider-Man franchise, I would want:

• Her name actually be Mary Jane Watson
• She becomes the alpha flirty girl Gunn mentioned (can't remember what he actually said, but it captured MJ's personality)
• Have Zendaya look the way she's capable of looking
• She gets her signature red hair

 

[X Knight]

Yeah, I was just noticing that. I know I have been giving them the benefit of the doubt and telling everyone here to wait and see. But if they go with her just being Michelle J_____ and being just the way she has been described in the film, I will be very disappointed.

If Zendaya is intended to the MJ of this MCU Spider-Man franchise, I would want:

• Her name actually be Mary Jane Watson
• She becomes the alpha flirty girl Gunn mentioned (can't remember what he actually said, but it captured MJ's personality)
• Have Zendaya look the way she's capable of looking
• She gets her signature red hair

I agree.

I'm curious if anyone who saw the CC footage actually heard her name being called Michelle. it will be interesting once we start getting clips and teasers and trailers if her name is indeed "Michelle."

and if that is indeed the case, and she is indeed MJ, then I think the whole Michelle name deal could be the dumbest decision yet. Unless there's a good reason why she uses the name Michelle ( she uses it as disguise at school so that no one knows she's the famous teen model MJ ), it would be just so, so stupid. in order to tell your contrived transformation arc, you have to give her a fake name or a fake middle name she's never had.........yeah......

if she's MJ, she should be called MJ. and she should be Mary Jane Watson. Not Michelle Johnson or something.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Yeah, I was just noticing that. I know I have been giving them the benefit of the doubt and telling everyone here to wait and see. But if they go with her just being Michelle J_____ and being just the way she has been described in the film, I will be very disappointed.

If Zendaya is intended to the MJ of this MCU Spider-Man franchise, I would want:

• Her name actually be Mary Jane Watson
• She becomes the alpha flirty girl Gunn mentioned (can't remember what he actually said, but it captured MJ's personality)
• Have Zendaya look the way she's capable of looking
• She gets her signature red hair

But why dye it? In my opinion, MJ should've been a redhead from the get-go. Hence why this casting (if she is cast as MJ) pisses me off. And secondly, she's going through so many changes only because the writers got cold feet and instead of making her a new character similar to Tony's Manuel, they decided to go back on their original plans and change both these characters into well known ones ala Mary Jane Watson and Flash Thompson except both of these characters do not look a damn thing of how they're suppose to look like in terms of appearance ala dress and yes skin color and also Zendaya's comments about her character being 'dry and awkward.'

And Tony does not look like the big, tough jock but more like a polo-shirted science nerd picking on another science nerd. Even that group photo he looks more like Raj from the "Big Bang Theory" trying desperately to be a hipster. The kid playing Ned should be Kenny Kong to me. Anngourie I feel should be MJ. The girl playing Liz will be one and done with one movie thanks to her age; Sally seems like she won't be very important or crucial to the plot.

I hate to keep but it just seems like a lot of changes were made because a) they didn't want to repeat the past but also b) changing because of the sake of changing.

In my opinion, this film, as of right now, deserves an Ian Malcolm meme:

 

[PeterBenParker]

There's definitely a lot to warrant concern overall.

 

[X Knight]

But why dye it? In my opinion, MJ should've been a redhead from the get-go. Hence why this casting (if she is cast as MJ) pisses me off. And secondly, she's going through so many changes only because the writers got cold feet and instead of making her a new character similar to Tony's Manuel, they decided to go back on their original plans and change both these characters into well known ones ala Mary Jane Watson and Flash Thompson except both of these characters do not look a damn thing of how they're suppose to look like in terms of appearance ala dress and yes skin color and also Zendaya's comments about her character being 'dry and awkward.'

And Tony does not look like the big, tough jock but more like a polo-shirted science nerd picking on another science nerd. Even that group photo he looks more like Raj from the "Big Bang Theory" trying desperately to be a hipster. The kid playing Ned should be Kenny Kong to me. Anngourie I feel should be MJ. The girl playing Liz will be one and done with one movie thanks to her age; Sally seems like she won't be very important or crucial to the plot.

I hate to keep but it just seems like a lot of changes were made because a) they didn't want to repeat the past but also b) changing because of the sake of changing.

In my opinion, this film, as of right now, deserves an Ian Malcolm meme:

exactly!! you said it!!

just because you CAN do something, does not mean you SHOULD do something.

and in re to Flash, if they wanted to make him a minority, fine. but they could have gotten a physically bigger looking actor for the role, be it a black guy, or a Pacific Islander/Samoan dude or whoever. I mean, think of a young Rock or young Roman Reigns or young Manu Bennett type. a big football player type. That way, you'd still have a minority in the role for diversity, but at least the character would look and fit the part better ( a jock bully ).

There's definitely a lot to warrant concern overall.

yep.

 

[PeterBenParker]

If Zendaya is Mary Jane (and it's looking more-and-more likely that she is), that basically means every other character not introduced is open to being different than what is typically hoped/expected of that character. I'm not quite sure if that's something I can stomach if the trend continues. I'm on board with Z as MJ, but I do agree with the consensus that the zero-to-hero aspect does seem unnecessary.

I'm on board with Tony as Flash, but only because I like the actor and I'm willing to give 'em the benefit of the doubt here. If it was an actor I was unfamiliar with or perhaps disliked, I'd probably be a bit more bothered.

Angourie Rice as Betty Brant seems really odd.

Jacob as Ned, Peter's best friend, is just..strange. I guess it's better than having him be a loner like Garfield's was, but classic Pete definitely started out that way so that's why I had little issue with it in those films. Here it just seems as if because Harry was used so heavily in the past two series, they opted to go another route because they wanted to avoid anything the past has done. Also, still not a fan of him being a replacement for Ganke. I want Ganke with Miles. Peter does not need Ganke. Moving on.

The main things that have me staying on board with this film is some casting choices (Martin Starr and Michael Keaton), some villain choices (Vulture, Tinkerer and Shocker ), and my overall love for Spider-Man. I wasn't impressed with Tom as Peter/Spidey in Civil War and this film will inevitably prove whether I felt I was right in my criticism or wrong in that I judged far too soon.

 

[Dark Raven]

If he's like Raj from TBBT, is he even going to be able to verbally attack Peter or will be freeze up socially if there's a girl around?

And if it's just online harassment, that's boring to depict. It doesn't have quite the same punch as physical bullying.

Michelle could at least have had red hair from the start instead of that being part of her makeover.

 

[PeterBenParker]

young Rock or young Roman Reigns

Woah, you're a WWE fan?

 

[X Knight]

speaking of which, wasn't there a younger white kid cast? wasn't he supposed to be someone who "looked up" to Peter or something?

have we heard anymore about him?

 

[PeterBenParker]

speaking of which, wasn't there a younger white kid cast? wasn't he supposed to be someone who "looked up" to Peter or something?

have we heard anymore about him?

That would be Michael Barberi.

Only thing we know of him is he's playing "Jason", which many (including myself) believe/believed could be a codename for Harry with LMG being yet to be revealed as Norman Osborn.