Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread - Part 1

[marijuanawatson]

Creative decisions for Spider-Man: Homecoming

 

[PeterBenParker]

lol That was also my reaction when I heard he was cast as GL. Little did I know that he would turn out to be the least of the movie's problems.

Spoiler

Spoiler

smart man.

 

[The Infernal]

The entire point of this forum is for people to discuss, share opinions whether you agree with them or not. SpiderBoy doesn't have to wait until he's seen the film to give his opinion on the changes they've made to MJ's character in this movie. I can't count on five hands how many times i've seen people say "Wait untlil you've seen the film"

I'm getting Suicide Squad forum discussions about Joker flashbacks. lol

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Spoiler

lmao that's this whole thread

 

[Dark Raven]

it shouldn't be compared anyway.. you can't tell someone "well they can be changed because they're fiction" and then justify it with real people...

hell bio-pics change things sometimes even...

But that's not the point.. you're talking about Fiction vers non fiction.. and i'm talking about pop-culture imagery... which is just as historical... You can change the Nike logo.. but its going to get backlash... and the old one will still be more iconic.

I'm talking about pop culture iconography as in images. VISUAL pop culture. Not the historical aspect of a characters life.

everyone has an image in their head of what marylin looks like... and 9 times out of 10 its probably the 7 year itch white dress...

Elvis.. is a little trickier.. some will remember him best in his jail house rock days.. others will remember him more in his final heavy-set days... both just as iconic but different opinions on what would be more of the "classic" look..

similarly.. the same rules apply to batman.. some will say all black, some will say grey/black, some will say grey/blue... its all about iconography though.. an image that sticks out in your mind... For MJ its easily the "Jackpot" intro image... that's probably the most recognizable look for MJ... can her look, styling etc.. be altered? sure. but if she's changed too much she wont look as recognizable.. and certainly not iconic.

If we are talking character history.. that's another story.. you can't or shouldn't really change a real life characters history on film.. and you have more leeway to make such changes with fictional charters.. but that doesn't mean you should either... Change imo should only happen when it needs too... when something just wont work. This is something we did every single day of college in art school.. you can't display a piece of art and just say "because i liked it better" Every change you make.. you have to justify.. and if there's no real reason you can justify doing it a certain way.. or if you alter perception to make it more difficult to understand (I was a graphic design major btw.. so information design was important) then you have to justify it or drop it.. you can't force it.

I personally see no valid reason MJ needed changed.. and from the looks of it.. based on those who tried out for the part.. they wanted a non-white actress from the get go. And that is change for the sake of change.. not "whos the best for the role". and sorry.. but "we wanted more diversity" isn't an answer either... not when the rest of the cast is already diverse.

When Todd McFarlane changed Mary Jane's hair to a perm to "update" her because he thought the classic look was dated, she didn't really look like MJ at all. She looked more like Jean Grey or other generic red heads. She could just as easily have been a different character with an equally bubbly and sassy personality, because it's not like there haven't been other characters like that. She-Hulk's, for example, is not that far different.

If you changed She-Hulk to a red head with bangs and human white skin and a normal body mass, would she still be She-Hulk even if she has almost the same personality? Or would she be virtually Mary Jane?

And if you watched the Incredible Hulk cartoon and just listened to the vocal track and heard She-Hulk speaking, without any specific reference to her name, colour or powers, couldn't you mistake Cree Summer's portrayal for Mary Jane?

 

[Chesterfield]

fine.. "many fans" which actually is true.. you've never binge watched a show and suddenly feel like when its over your friends are gone? people do this all the time.. its called "attachment"

Not about characters like MJ. I love the character but I'm not profoundly enamoured and invested in her to such a degree.

The way you feel about MJ being a dude.. is the EXACT way i feel about MJ not having red hair...

If that's the way you feel but it's nonsense really. Comparing hair colour to a gender swap aren't in the same league.

 

[Chesterfield]

but is it silly?

It's very silly.

Yes, it's an extreme example. but, if it's ok to make changes to these characters because they are mere fictional characters, then when does it stop?

It stops at the point of becoming absurd. Changing a few characteristics about MJ isn't as absurd as a short, balding fat superman.

I certainly wouldn't want to see a short, 5'3", fat, bald Superman who flies around with a jetpack and uses a stun gun.

No one does.

but let's say a filmmaker many years from now wants to tell that vision of Superman. shouldn't he have the right to make changes to the character to tell the vision he wants?

Nope because one's vision for such a property has to be somewhat reasonable. Films of this type cost over $100million to make, you think a studio is going to invest in superman film where he's short, fat and balding? Of course not. Like I said, it's silly.

after all, these are just fictional characters who can be changed.......right?

Yes they can be changed but like I said, change within reason. Just because something is subject to change it doesn't mean it has to reach levels of ridiculousness.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

I'm just very conflicted. I agree with both parties and yet I'm staying out of this discussion. t:

I'm just sitting back, eating popcorn and enjoying the discussion, with numerous well made points being made from both sides.

Carry on gentleman.

 

[Chesterfield]

i'm going to be frank with you...

many of us DO NOT CARE about anyone who isn't bothered by these changes.. we are bothered by the fact (AND DO CARE) when people who clearly don't care.. want to tell us what we can or can't feel or if something is frivolous and doesn't matter.. sorry.. but there opinion doesn't matter not if they would be fine with it either way... They don't get to tell people how it is...

No one has the right to tell a fan what they can or can't be upset about and they shouldn't certainly patronize them and tell them "you haven't even seen the film yet... wait and see" sorry.. a turd is still a turd... even if it's a Turd on Space Mountain at disneyland.. i may still enjoy the ride.. but im going to be incredibly off-put by riding with a turd.

i really don't need to wait and see if that turd is really a tootsie roll.

And I'll be frank with you. I don't give a damn what you like or don't like but when I see or read things that make little sense or venture off into the realm of absurdity I'll call it out. For example, equating MJ not having red hair to MJ undergoing a gender swap is lunacy. You and others are free to run around with that opinion which is fine because that's just how your mind operates, nothing I can do about that but still, it doesn't make it any less ridiculous to me.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

oh, so you've read reports saying the surprise reveal has indeed been spoiled by the scoop?

I mean, it's kind of obvious that it has been spoiled.

but do you have links to those reports? I'd like to read them, too.

Hey, X Knight, here's one of those links:


http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/zendaya-is-playing-an-iconic-spider-man-role.html

 

[Flint Marko]

Equating the change in MJ's hair color to a hypothetical gender swap of the character, or a fat bald Superman who uses a jetpack, easily rank as some of the most laughable things I've read in this section.

Never change, Spidey boards

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Hey, X Knight, here's one of those links:


http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/zendaya-is-playing-an-iconic-spider-man-role.html

Yeah, that's from Kyle Buchanan who also confirmed from his own sources that Zendaya is MJ. For what it's worth, he mentioned on twitter, that he was told the specifics of the Zendaya/MJ reveal and was grinning from ear to ear.

 

[marijuanawatson]

Not about characters like MJ. I love the character but I'm not profoundly enamoured and invested in her to such a degree.

See, that's the problem. You're not invested in the character, but most of us on here are. We love this character. Mary Jane is one of my favorite fictional characters of all time, as well as comic book characters. Of course, someone who doesn't care about the character as much would not care about these big changes, but since we do, these changes are absurd to us.

So why are you on these boards? To argue and correct people, so you can be right all the time? The rest of us are debating and discussing while you're trying to argue, cause **** and set this board on fire.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

Mary Jane Watson is my favorite character in the Spider-Man mythos. And, personally, based on the photos I've seen of her, I get way more of a MJ vibe from her than I ever did from that awful Kirsten Dunst... I didn't like Dunst as MJ any more than Dunst liked playing MJ.

She looks way more like John Romita's art than Dunst ever did.

 

[PeterBenParker]

 

[PeterBenParker]

Mary Jane Watson is my favorite character in the Spider-Man mythos. And, personally, based on the photos I've seen of her, I get way more of a MJ vibe from her than I ever did from that awful Kirsten Dunst... I didn't like Dunst as MJ any more than Dunst liked playing MJ.

She looks way more like John Romita's art than Dunst ever did.

So excited to see what she can bring to the role. Just hope that the "Michele/Michelle J____" thing doesn't turn out to be true 'cause that'd be a bummer. Really hoping she is Mary Jane.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Not about characters like MJ. I love the character but I'm not profoundly enamoured and invested in her to such a degree.






If that's the way you feel but it's nonsense really. Comparing hair colour to a gender swap aren't in the same league.

To you it's rediculous because you don't have the attachment I do...

 

[marijuanawatson]

Mary Jane Watson is my favorite character in the Spider-Man mythos. And, personally, based on the photos I've seen of her, I get way more of a MJ vibe from her than I ever did from that awful Kirsten Dunst... I didn't like Dunst as MJ any more than Dunst liked playing MJ.

She looks way more like John Romita's art than Dunst ever did.

Agreed. Even though Dunst's version was flawed and not 100% accurate, it was not THAT bad and I still love Dunst as an actress and she's the main reason I love MJ today because I saw Spider-Man at such a young age and that was my first exposure to the character. Don't let this Michelle thing be true, though!

 

[spideyboy_1111]

And I'll be frank with you. I don't give a damn what you like or don't like but when I see or read things that make little sense or venture off into the realm of absurdity I'll call it out. For example, equating MJ not having red hair to MJ undergoing a gender swap is lunacy. You and others are free to run around with that opinion which is fine because that's just how your mind operates, nothing I can do about that but still, it doesn't make it any less ridiculous to me.

Again.. it's only absurd because you really don't care that deeply about the character. We all have characters were more passionate about then others. I'll be damned if I disrespect another fan because my lack of carring about a character keeps them from the one they know and love. THAT is what's absurd.

I'm not going to say "it doesn't matter" to those it clearly matters to. That's arrogant.and I'm not going to pretend to know more than they do.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Equating the change in MJ's hair color to a hypothetical gender swap of the character, or a fat bald Superman who uses a jetpack, easily rank as some of the most laughable things I've read in this section.

Never change, Spidey boards

Not going to lie.. I'd probably take a male MJ with red hair who acted like 616 MJ over a "mj in initials only" who didn't resemble mj in personality or looks... like this one seems to be... don't do mj at all if you're actually not going to do MJ

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Not about characters like MJ. I love the character but I'm not profoundly enamoured and invested in her to such a degree.

See, that's the problem. You're not invested in the character, but most of us on here are. We love this character. Mary Jane is one of my favorite fictional characters of all time, as well as comic book characters. Of course, someone who doesn't care about the character as much would not care about these big changes, but since we do, these changes are absurd to us.

So why are you on these boards? To argue and correct people, so you can be right all the time? The rest of us are debating and discussing while you're trying to argue, cause **** and set this board on fire.

Bingo

If you don't care, don't be surprised when people don't care to listen

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Mary Jane Watson is my favorite character in the Spider-Man mythos. And, personally, based on the photos I've seen of her, I get way more of a MJ vibe from her than I ever did from that awful Kirsten Dunst... I didn't like Dunst as MJ any more than Dunst liked playing MJ.

She looks way more like John Romita's art than Dunst ever did.

I'd agree if she actually looked like that in set pics.. and actually was described as such... but alas. . This is not what we are getting

 

[Venomfan]

Mary Jane Watson is my favorite character in the Spider-Man mythos. And, personally, based on the photos I've seen of her, I get way more of a MJ vibe from her than I ever did from that awful Kirsten Dunst... I didn't like Dunst as MJ any more than Dunst liked playing MJ.

She looks way more like John Romita's art than Dunst ever did.

But she doesn't look like that in the movie, they made her frumpy

 

[Spider-Gnome]

But she doesn't look like that in the movie, they made her frumpy

If they cast someone like Zendaya as MJ, do you think they would keep her frumpy?

 

[Venomfan]

If they cast someone like Zendaya as MJ, do you think they would keep her frumpy?

MJ isn't frumpy is the problem. She's not someone who blossoms into herself. Not to mention it sends a terrible message