Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread - Part 1

[marijuanawatson]

Those 4chan rumors on the General thread may add some trepidation in how MJ is going to be portrayed.

Hope the big "reveal" moment that has been spoiled gives us the MJ we're waiting for (and signature red hair).

Can you give me the link?

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

I really wish they would've just kept her as Michelle or confirm or not confirm she is MJ or not just so this whole stupid thing would get settled and over with. If their goal was to create controversy and split sides, mission accomplished.

This is why I wish Hollywood would just stick to the source sometimes instead of thinking they know better or they can do better.

 

[Chesterfield]

Idiots (including some on these very forums apparently)

Now this is what explicit actual name calling looks like.

will accuse anyone of racism for wanting a character adapted in the way it was created and it's obnoxious. I'm sick of people saying that crap. But trolls gonna troll.

I don't know which other people you're talking about but in my case I called out dark boy or whatever his name is because I believe part of what he said in his post came off sounding racist and rather casually too. Now, he's apologised for not meaning any offence and he's had a couple of people advocate on his behalf that it was a misunderstanding. Fair enough. But I came at this not because he or anyone else may prefer a white actress but because of the whole apes movie he used to emphasise his point; which irrespective of the context in which he used it came off as sounding racist and insensitive.

The sad thing is, to underscore where I'm coming from, this whole business of the actress Leslie Jones thats happened over the last 2 days who had her account hacked and her privacy invaded was racially targeted in the most brutal way by savage trolls and was being compared to that Harambe ape that was killed a little while ago. Surely, it's not hard to see why some people would have taken issue with what was said in the aforementioned post.

 

[X Knight]

Can you give me the link?

from the General thread

Movie rumors from 4chan (Take with a grain of salt)

Spoiler

- The movie has lower stakes in relation to other MCU movies and also a relatively lower budget

- The movie centers on Peter Parker struggling to balance his private life and his superhero life. As Peter, he's trying to ask his longtime crush Liz Allan for homecoming dance and fitting in with being the new kid in a prestigious school he got in as a scholarship, while as Spider-Man he's handling his first real supervillain, the Vulture

- Adrian Toomes, the Vulture, is a military scientist who creates a wingsuit using alien technology from "The Avengers", and gets fired from it. He eventually learns he needs it to live, steals it and goes on a rampage, killing his former superiors and trying to find a cure

- The Tinkerer is a minor villain, a former Stark Industries inventor who's supplyig crooks with cutting-edge weaponry and is forced to help the Vulture. He gives weapons to Shocker and his gang, who are opening antagonists

- Zendaya really is playing Mary-Jane, but that was a late addition from the latest script rewrite. At one point she really was "Michelle", an original character. She's Peter's classmate who has a crush on him, and they end up going to homecoming together. Like him, she's attending school on a scholarship. She'll be the main love interest in the sequels

- Flash was also going to an original character, "Manuel", but was made into Flash in the same rewrite that made Michelle into MJ

- There's no Jameson or Daily Bugle in the movie

- Tony Stark's role in the movie is pretty minor and he doesn't appear as Iron Man. He gives Peter some life advice when it looks like he can't deal with his first supervillain

- Stark mentions he's keeping the Accords off of Peter's back because he's only dealing with minor street crimes, but might not be able to protect him if he keeps branching out to dealing with supervillains

 

[Chesterfield]

How reliable has 4chan been with their sources in the past?

 

[X Knight]

How reliable has 4chan been with their sources in the past?

most people don't put much faith in stuff from 4chan.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

So now it's alright to call fellow hypers idiots?

As if it hadn't already been done in this thread multiple times....

However, I apologize if it sounded harsh. It just shows a lack of an argument to me when one cries "racist" as an objection to an argument that isn't inherently racist. Sorry to offend.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Now this is what explicit actual name calling looks like.

Apologies. Frustrated and went overboard.

I don't know which other people you're talking about but in my case I called out dark boy or whatever his name is because I believe part of what he said in his post came off sounding racist and rather casually too. Now, he's apologised for not meaning any offence and he's had a couple of people advocate on his behalf that it was a misunderstanding. Fair enough. But I came at this not because he or anyone else may prefer a white actress but because of the whole apes movie he used to emphasise his point; which irrespective of the context in which he used it came off as sounding racist and insensitive.

The sad thing is, to underscore where I'm coming from, this whole business of the actress Leslie Jones thats happened over the last 2 days who had her account hacked and her privacy invaded was racially targeted in the most brutal way by savage trolls and was being compared to that Harambe ape that was killed a little while ago. Surely, it's not hard to see why some people would have taken issue with what was said in the aforementioned post.

I understand the historical link between racism and comparing people to apes, and it's horrific and inhumane. That clearly was not what was happening after a few posts about it, but it's cool, I guess eventually you came around.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

so, a few days ago, we were discussing how Stan Lee supports Zendaya playing MJ. And I posted a link to a quote how a year ago, Stan seemed far more resistant to changing Spidey. He was saying we shouldn't make Spidey gay. The quote I linked to just talked about that aspect. It turns out, there was much more to Stan's words, cuz I came across this today. This is also why I don't put much weight in Stan's words, because he has totally contradicted himself.

http://www.newsarama.com/24901-stan-lee-talks-big-screen-spider-man-depiction.html

“I wouldn’t mind, if Peter Parker had originally been black, a Latino, an Indian or anything else, that he stay that way,” Lee said. “But we originally made him white. I don’t see any reason to change that.”

“It has nothing to do with being anti-gay, or anti-black, or anti-Latino, or anything like that,” Lee said. “Latino characters should stay Latino. The Black Panther should certainly not be Swiss. I just see no reason to change that which has already been established when it’s so easy to add new characters. I say create new characters the way you want to. Hell, I’ll do it myself.”

The ironic thing is, if Stan had made this exact response to Zendaya's casting as MJ, he would have been labelled a racist, close-minded troll by the internet.

This also makes me think that Zendaya IS indeed MJ. that's why Stan has now changed his tune and is praising the casting.

And I don't want to bring up the racechange argument again. But I just wanted to provide full context to what Stan said a year ago.

Stan is 93, he doesn't have much time left.. he's retiring from the circut and nearly blind.. the last thing he wants to do before he is nothing but a memory... is be labled racist before his passing.. he wont do that.. that's why he says nothing but kind words towards everything.

 

[Dark Raven]

I agree that I would rather have her as a teen model than have this Michele version, but having MJ as a teen model is a little laughable to me and doesn't fit. MJ isn't supposed to be rich or anything, especially as a teen. And I doubt her family would let her do that since she would be a minor at the time. I also find it hard to believe that in this social media age that no one at Midtown would know she was a model. But yeah, I'd rather have that than Michelle though.

I don't think it's laughable. She could easily be an aspiring teen model who already sees herself as one, and posts lots of model-looking pics on Instagram and Tumblr of herself. There seem to be a fair number of blogs out there like that, and then the females in question get discovered by an agency and used to promote certain brands of clothing. Sure, in those cases they are probably older teens, but there could well be younger females who fancy themselves as potential models and might flaunt their photos to get attention. So they might not be formal models signed by an agency as such, but could just have accumulated a following on social media, which is something that MJ could easily have done.

After all, it seems that anyone can post anything like they of themselves on YouTube, Instagram, Tumblr etc. What other social media is there? I'm not familiar with everything. But occasionally I come across someone and it appears they are famous, and I try to look them up to see who they are, and find out that they're mostly known as Instagram or Tumblr "celebrities", and then I wonder why they're so well known.

So MJ could easily be one of these social media "celebrities" with a following online, even as a teen.

 

[marijuanawatson]

from the General thread

- The movie has lower stakes in relation to other MCU movies and also a relatively lower budget

- Zendaya really is playing Mary-Jane, but that was a late addition from the latest script rewrite. At one point she really was "Michelle", an original character. She's Peter's classmate who has a crush on him, and they end up going to homecoming together. Like him, she's attending school on a scholarship. She'll be the main love interest in the sequels

- Flash was also going to an original character, "Manuel", but was made into Flash in the same rewrite that made Michelle into MJ

If that's true...... That's terrible...

 

[marijuanawatson]

I don't think it's laughable. She could easily be an aspiring teen model who already sees herself as one, and posts lots of model-looking pics on Instagram and Tumblr of herself. There seem to be a fair number of blogs out there like that, and then the females in question get discovered by an agency and used to promote certain brands of clothing. Sure, in those cases they are probably older teens, but there could well be younger females who fancy themselves as potential models and might flaunt their photos to get attention. So they might not be formal models signed by an agency as such, but could just have accumulated a following on social media, which is something that MJ could easily have done.

After all, it seems that anyone can post anything like they of themselves on YouTube, Instagram, Tumblr etc. What other social media is there? I'm not familiar with everything. But occasionally I come across someone and it appears they are famous, and I try to look them up to see who they are, and find out that they're mostly known as Instagram or Tumblr "celebrities", and then I wonder why they're so well known.

So MJ could easily be one of these social media "celebrities" with a following online, even as a teen.

Oh, okay I see what you mean. Yeah, being an Instagram/social media type model who is an aspiring real model is fine. I meant that Michelle being a real model who's signed to agency and get's paid is stupid.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

You clearly didn't read my post well, because I was more or less on your side of the argument, bro. I know you want white and red-haired, and while I'd prefer it I was saying that race isn't that big of a deal to me as long as we recognize the character, which by all accounts (prematurely admittedly) we cannot yet.

lol my comment wasn't directed at you it was rhetorical about those who don't see the difference between changing MJ and changing Sally Avril kinda thing

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Idiots (including some on these very forums apparently) will accuse anyone of racism for wanting a character adapted in the way it was created and it's obnoxious. I'm sick of people saying that crap. But trolls gonna troll.

its only racist when a white poster wants a white character to remain white.. they care not if they apply that logic to everyone else and stand up against whitewashing even.. but the moment they utter that the character should remain white.. "RACIST" (i think people should really look up the definition of the word)

the best is there's been black, asian, and latino posters who came out against Johnny storm being black.. but they tend to be ignored because the labelers want to pretend that doesn't exist.. and they can't yell "racist" at minorities...

Z wouldn't be my top choice but If she looked like she does on a red carpet with red hair.. id be much happier. I just got into a war on facebook with a guy constantly calling me racist.. when all i want is the red hair and the personality intact... regardless of race. that's not racism.. people need to educate themselves. if anything assuming i'm racist because i'm white... is racism

 

[spideyboy_1111]

from the General thread

id like to know how MJ got a scholarship to a prestigious science school personally... and how that makes any sense to her character

 

[spideyboy_1111]

i do like it being a prestigious school none the less... it explains the snobbery

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't think it's laughable. She could easily be an aspiring teen model who already sees herself as one, and posts lots of model-looking pics on Instagram and Tumblr of herself. There seem to be a fair number of blogs out there like that, and then the females in question get discovered by an agency and used to promote certain brands of clothing. Sure, in those cases they are probably older teens, but there could well be younger females who fancy themselves as potential models and might flaunt their photos to get attention. So they might not be formal models signed by an agency as such, but could just have accumulated a following on social media, which is something that MJ could easily have done.

After all, it seems that anyone can post anything like they of themselves on YouTube, Instagram, Tumblr etc. What other social media is there? I'm not familiar with everything. But occasionally I come across someone and it appears they are famous, and I try to look them up to see who they are, and find out that they're mostly known as Instagram or Tumblr "celebrities", and then I wonder why they're so well known.

So MJ could easily be one of these social media "celebrities" with a following online, even as a teen.

I see MJ as a teen social media kinda celeb in highschool

 

[X Knight]

I don't think it's laughable. She could easily be an aspiring teen model who already sees herself as one, and posts lots of model-looking pics on Instagram and Tumblr of herself. There seem to be a fair number of blogs out there like that, and then the females in question get discovered by an agency and used to promote certain brands of clothing. Sure, in those cases they are probably older teens, but there could well be younger females who fancy themselves as potential models and might flaunt their photos to get attention. So they might not be formal models signed by an agency as such, but could just have accumulated a following on social media, which is something that MJ could easily have done.

After all, it seems that anyone can post anything like they of themselves on YouTube, Instagram, Tumblr etc. What other social media is there? I'm not familiar with everything. But occasionally I come across someone and it appears they are famous, and I try to look them up to see who they are, and find out that they're mostly known as Instagram or Tumblr "celebrities", and then I wonder why they're so well known.

So MJ could easily be one of these social media "celebrities" with a following online, even as a teen.

yeah. that could work, too, I guess.

 

[X Knight]

id like to know how MJ got a scholarship to a prestigious science school personally... and how that makes any sense to her character

that fits "brainy Jane" Ultimate MJ more than 616 MJ.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

that fits "brainy Jane" Ultimate MJ more than 616 MJ.

ick... so basically everyone spider-man knows is a nerd.. yeah. lets talk about diversity for a moment.

 

[X Knight]

If that's true...... That's terrible...

read it and weep.

it would be like, I'm writing the script for the new solo Batman film. I create my own original character to be the villain.

then, late in the process, either I or someone from higher up, decides that the film needs more recognizable Batman villains.

so, instead of going back to rewrite the script to include a villain like Joker, I just keep my original character and slap the name Joker on him. and then maybe write some contrived plot point to explain why that character is Joker, since the character doesn't really look or act anything like Joker.

I mean.......wtf??!!

 

[X Knight]

ick... so basically everyone spider-man knows is a nerd.. yeah. lets talk about diversity for a moment.

that's why I prefer 616/SSM version of MJ instead.

kind of boring when the LI is pretty much the same as the protag.

I liked the "beauty and the geek" dynamic of 616 MJ and Peter's relationship.

 

[X Knight]

its only racist when a white poster wants a white character to remain white.. they care not if they apply that logic to everyone else and stand up against whitewashing even.. but the moment they utter that the character should remain white.. "RACIST" (i think people should really look up the definition of the word)

the best is there's been black, asian, and latino posters who came out against Johnny storm being black.. but they tend to be ignored because the labelers want to pretend that doesn't exist.. and they can't yell "racist" at minorities...

Z wouldn't be my top choice but If she looked like she does on a red carpet with red hair.. id be much happier. I just got into a war on facebook with a guy constantly calling me racist.. when all i want is the red hair and the personality intact... regardless of race. that's not racism.. people need to educate themselves. if anything assuming i'm racist because i'm white... is racism

yep!!

 

[spideyboy_1111]

that's why I prefer 616/SSM version of MJ instead.

kind of boring when the LI is pretty much the same as the protag.

I liked the "beauty and the geek" dynamic of 616 MJ and Peter's relationship.

agreed.. but you know.. the adults at marvel (namely joey q) felt like it was unrealistic for a babe to be with a dork... you know.. because he never got his own MJ *eyeroll

 

[marijuanawatson]

read it and weep.

it would be like, I'm writing the script for the new solo Batman film. I create my own original character to be the villain.

then, late in the process, either I or someone from higher up, decides that the film needs more recognizable Batman villains.

so, instead of going back to rewrite the script to include a villain like Joker, I just keep my original character and slap the name Joker on him. and then maybe write some contrived plot point to explain why that character is Joker, since the character doesn't really look or act anything like Joker.

I mean.......wtf??!!

Whatever. I guess Marvel doesn't care because technically it's not their movie and they're not making a profit.