Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread - Part 1

[X Knight]

agreed.. but you know.. the adults at marvel (namely joey q) felt like it was unrealistic for a babe to be with a dork... you know.. because he never got his own MJ *eyeroll

yeah. I was really pissed when they broke up Peter and MJ's marriage.

and I'm not even a hardcore comic book reader. more of a casual fan who picks up interesting books from time to time.

but still, that move pissed me off. and I've basically written off reading any mainstream Spidey book ever since. not until they restore the marriage.

it's also why I hated DC's New 52, cuz they broke up Clark and Lois, too. in addition to changing the characters around so much that they felt so different and unfamiliar ( even the new Rebirth took a jab at that ).

 

[X Knight]

Whatever. I guess Marvel doesn't care because technically it's not their movie and they're not making a profit.

if it fails, they can just blame Sony.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I never understood how Mary Jane could be out of Peter's league, honestly.

Before:

After:

If there's any blame to be pointed at, it should be at Marvel for creating a work of fiction and backtracking on it years later. They made Mary Jane a gorgeous character with a dynamite personality just as they made a zero-to-hero as their flagship character.

Now all of a sudden they want to pair him up with lesser characters because some -- namely JQ -- got cold feet. It's ridiculous.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Oh, okay I see what you mean. Yeah, being an Instagram/social media type model who is an aspiring real model is fine. I meant that Michelle being a real model who's signed to agency and get's paid is stupid.

I think the social media aspect is a better fit, but for you to say "Mary Jane is not supposed to be rich/famous/etc" is at odds with an adaptation IMHO. I don't see a problem with changing some circumstances/background as long as the character, again, is recognizable.

SSM didn't cover her home life one bit and it's still one of (if not the) best adaptations of MJ we've seen.

lol my comment wasn't directed at you it was rhetorical about those who don't see the difference between changing MJ and changing Sally Avril kinda thing

its only racist when a white poster wants a white character to remain white.. they care not if they apply that logic to everyone else and stand up against whitewashing even.. but the moment they utter that the character should remain white.. "RACIST" (i think people should really look up the definition of the word)

the best is there's been black, asian, and latino posters who came out against Johnny storm being black.. but they tend to be ignored because the labelers want to pretend that doesn't exist.. and they can't yell "racist" at minorities...

Z wouldn't be my top choice but If she looked like she does on a red carpet with red hair.. id be much happier. I just got into a war on facebook with a guy constantly calling me racist.. when all i want is the red hair and the personality intact... regardless of race. that's not racism.. people need to educate themselves. if anything assuming i'm racist because i'm white... is racism

OT, but you know what really pissed me off about that Johnny Storm casting?

I didn't mind the character being black. Honestly. I love the FF and would prefer a white blond Johnny and a white blond Sue. But if you make Johnny black, so be it--there are plenty of black people in the world and it's not unrealistic to assume that Stan may have made more characters minorities if they hadn't been created in the 50s/60s...

HOWEVER: If you're going to make Johnny black, make Sue black too! I understand the adoption angle, and I don't hate it from a STORY perspective but it sends all the wrong messages from a studio pushing for "diversity" (AKA minorities' money). The only reason they didn't change Sue with Johnny (besides the fact that the only reason they really changed Johnny was to pander to minority audiences--not necessarily a bad thing, but not noble like they'll try to make you think) is because they wanted a hot white girl to bring in the boys. And I really believe they think the hot white girl sells better than the hot black girl. They could be right, doesn't make that fact right or wrong, but it's not genuine, it's shameless pandering and trying to have your cake and eat it too. That's why I didn't like the mixed-race family, not out of some deep-seated racism or what have you. It's because I'd rather them further the minority casting and TRULY be progressive by having a black leading lady rather than say, "eh, we need some black people in this film, throw in Michael B. Jordan Johnny, but he has to be adopted because we want Kate Mara as Sue to bring in the guys." Such crap.

I see MJ as a teen social media kinda celeb in highschool

The more I think about this, I can see it working out well. Every community/town/area has it's own little social media queen, and this being NYC she could be more famous than most are in their local areas, especially since each school/neighborhood/county/etc has their own subculture.

that's why I prefer 616/SSM version of MJ instead.

kind of boring when the LI is pretty much the same as the protag.

I liked the "beauty and the geek" dynamic of 616 MJ and Peter's relationship.

While I enjoyed USM and their relationship in it--this is just pure

Whatever. I guess Marvel doesn't care because technically it's not their movie and they're not making a profit.

To assert that Marvel doesn't care about this movie is just asinine for so many countless reasons.

yeah. I was really pissed when they broke up Peter and MJ's marriage.

and I'm not even a hardcore comic book reader. more of a casual fan who picks up interesting books from time to time.

but still, that move pissed me off. and I've basically written off reading any mainstream Spidey book ever since. not until they restore the marriage.

it's also why I hated DC's New 52, cuz they broke up Clark and Lois, too. in addition to changing the characters around so much that they felt so different and unfamiliar ( even the new Rebirth took a jab at that ).

Not trying to be a shill, because I haven't even been happy with the Spider-books since Superior ended in 2014, but you're missing some pretty good stories after OMD. Still, I won't lie, most of my favorites come pre-BND.

It's not the worst decision ever made to remove MJ from the marriage (although I certainly do not agree with it) but the execution was definitely a slap in the face to fans (to say the least).

 

[marijuanawatson]

I never understood how Mary Jane could be out of Peter's league, honestly.

Before:

After:

If there's any blame to be pointed at, it should be at Marvel for creating a work of fiction and backtracking on it years later.

Very good point. Even if supposedly MJ was out of Peters league (let's say peter is ugly, which he isn't) why the heck does that matter? It is 2016 people. Are we really still saying that nerds can't be with people who aren't nerds too? Seriously? We're still saying that hot guys/girls don't like nerds? Or that hot girls/guys can even be nerds themselves? It's 2016. People of all different personalities, backgrounds, and races fall in love all the time. Not a hard concept. That's why I've never understood why they have to change Peter's love interest to be "just like him"

 

[X Knight]

I think the social media aspect is a better fit, but for you to say "Mary Jane is not supposed to be rich/famous/etc" is at odds with an adaptation IMHO. I don't see a problem with changing some circumstances/background as long as the character, again, is recognizable.

SSM didn't cover her home life one bit and it's still one of (if not the) best adaptations of MJ we've seen.







OT, but you know what really pissed me off about that Johnny Storm casting?

I didn't mind the character being black. Honestly. I love the FF and would prefer a white blond Johnny and a white blond Sue. But if you make Johnny black, so be it--there are plenty of black people in the world and it's not unrealistic to assume that Stan may have made more characters minorities if they hadn't been created in the 50s/60s...

HOWEVER: If you're going to make Johnny black, make Sue black too! I understand the adoption angle, and I don't hate it from a STORY perspective but it sends all the wrong messages from a studio pushing for "diversity" (AKA minorities' money). The only reason they didn't change Sue with Johnny (besides the fact that the only reason they really changed Johnny was to pander to minority audiences--not necessarily a bad thing, but not noble like they'll try to make you think) is because they wanted a hot white girl to bring in the boys. And I really believe they think the hot white girl sells better than the hot black girl. They could be right, doesn't make that fact right or wrong, but it's not genuine, it's shameless pandering and trying to have your cake and eat it too. That's why I didn't like the mixed-race family, not out of some deep-seated racism or what have you. It's because I'd rather them further the minority casting and TRULY be progressive by having a black leading lady rather than say, "eh, we need some black people in this film, throw in Michael B. Jordan Johnny, but he has to be adopted because we want Kate Mara as Sue to bring in the guys." Such crap.



The more I think about this, I can see it working out well. Every community/town/area has it's own little social media queen, and this being NYC she could be more famous than most are in their local areas, especially since each school/neighborhood/county/etc has their own subculture.



While I enjoyed USM and their relationship in it--this is just pure



To assert that Marvel doesn't care about this movie is just asinine for so many countless reasons.



Not trying to be a shill, because I haven't even been happy with the Spider-books since Superior ended in 2014, but you're missing some pretty good stories after OMD. Still, I won't lie, most of my favorites come pre-BND.

It's not the worst decision ever made to remove MJ from the marriage (although I certainly do not agree with it) but the execution was definitely a slap in the face to fans (to say the least).

yeah. I just don't read much comic books anyways.

I go through spurts where I start buying them regularly, and then stop.

and over the last 5 or 6 years or so, I've become more of a DC fan than a Marvel fan. Mainly for the Superman characters and other characters like the Teen Titans ( Raven! ).

as a kid ( when the Burton movies came out ), I was really into Batman.

as a teenager, I was more into Spider-Man and Marvel. When I started reading Spider-Man comics, Peter and MJ were married. And MJ was Peter's wife/girlfriend in pretty much every other medium. so that's one reason why I have such an attachment to MJ. I consider her the Lois to Peter's Clark.

as an adult, I'm far more interested in DC again, and Superman in particular.

I look at the current state of Marvel comics and to me, it is largely unrecognizable........lol.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Very good point. Even if supposedly MJ was out of Peters league (let's say peter is ugly, which he isn't) why the heck does that matter? It is 2016 people. Are we really still saying that nerds can't be with people who aren't nerds too? Seriously? We're still saying that hot guys/girls don't like nerds? Or that hot girls/guys can even be nerds themselves? It's 2016. People of all different personalities, backgrounds, and races fall in love all the time. Not a hard concept. That's why I've never understood why they have to change Peter's love interest to be "just like him"

Apparently to them he doesn't relate to all readers if he's with a Gwen Stacy, Mary Jane or Felicia Hardy. Oh, and how dare he be married because nobody can relate to a married man.

So they have him with characters like Carlie Cooper, Anna Maria Marconi, or JQ's favorite -- nobody! So he can have all the single-bachelor sex he wants without having any commitment, i.e. Spider-Man and Black Cat being best friends with benefits at one point.

What's worse is Dan Slott is constantly teasing Peter and MJ reuniting only to move 'em away from each other every time. I guess that's why we're getting this now:

Spoiler

In (Marvel's) hopes they stop getting bugged about Peter being a lesser Tony Stark, not being with Mary Jane, or just being OOC for the past 5 or so years.

Ridiculous.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I never understood how Mary Jane could be out of Peter's league, honestly.

Before:

After:

If there's any blame to be pointed at, it should be at Marvel for creating a work of fiction and backtracking on it years later. They made Mary Jane a gorgeous character with a dynamite personality just as they made a zero-to-hero as their flagship character.

Now all of a sudden they want to pair him up with lesser characters because some -- namely JQ -- got cold feet. It's ridiculous.

yeah Peter got hot after the bite.. he was alway a geek but he didn't physically look like one.. and i don't see how Z looks like she's out of Tom's league either.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Very good point. Even if supposedly MJ was out of Peters league (let's say peter is ugly, which he isn't) why the heck does that matter? It is 2016 people. Are we really still saying that nerds can't be with people who aren't nerds too? Seriously? We're still saying that hot guys/girls don't like nerds? Or that hot girls/guys can even be nerds themselves? It's 2016. People of all different personalities, backgrounds, and races fall in love all the time. Not a hard concept. That's why I've never understood why they have to change Peter's love interest to be "just like him"

While this is true, I think it's certainly much more likely to happen in college or later. Usually in high school stereotypes stick true. At least from my observations.

I look at the current state of Marvel comics and to me, it is largely unrecognizable........lol.

Understandable lol. I used to be much bigger into DC, don't keep up with it much at all now. I need to read Snyder's Batman, I've loved the few arcs I've read here and there. I may start picking up Superman too just because I friggin' love Romita Jr.'s art. Also, apparently Jurgens is writing a married Superman title now? Cool. I loved his work on the Spider-Ben titles tbh. Hate he left (but understand the reasons) before Peter came back.

Apparently to them he doesn't relate to all readers if he's with a Gwen Stacy, Mary Jane or Felicia Hardy. Oh, and how dare he be married because nobody can relate to a married man.

So they have him with characters like Carlie Cooper, Anna Maria Marconi, or JQ's favorite -- nobody! So he can have all the single-bachelor sex he wants without having any commitment, i.e. Spider-Man and Black Cat being best friends with benefits at one point.

What's worse is Dan Slott is constantly teasing Peter and MJ reuniting only to move 'em away from each other every time. I guess that's why we're getting this now:

Spoiler

In (Marvel's) hopes they stop getting bugged about Peter being a lesser Tony Stark, not being with Mary Jane, or just being OOC for the past 5 or so years.

Ridiculous.

I still can't figure out why they wouldn't use one of those characters here. Carlie could have been a prime example lol.

Yeah, I'm picking up RYV but it's not like it's even close to having a married Spidey in 616 setting.

 

[X Knight]

While this is true, I think it's certainly much more likely to happen in college or later. Usually in high school stereotypes stick true. At least from my observations.



Understandable lol. I used to be much bigger into DC, don't keep up with it much at all now. I need to read Snyder's Batman, I've loved the few arcs I've read here and there. I may start picking up Superman too just because I friggin' love Romita Jr.'s art. Also, apparently Jurgens is writing a married Superman title now? Cool. I loved his work on the Spider-Ben titles tbh. Hate he left (but understand the reasons) before Peter came back.



I still can't figure out why they wouldn't use one of those characters here. Carlie could have been a prime example lol.

Yeah, I'm picking up RYV but it's not like it's even close to having a married Spidey in 616 setting.

yeah, in the new DC Rebirth, "classic" married Clark and Lois are back in continuity.

those, it's a bit "convoluted" how they went about it.

yeah, there's no reason why Zendaya's character couldn't have been someone like Carlie Cooper. change a character like that, and most people would shrug their shoulders and move on.

 

[marijuanawatson]

While this is true, I think it's certainly much more likely to happen in college or later. Usually in high school stereotypes stick true. At least from my observations.


I see your point of view, but I would definitely say that the current high school crowd today, in 2016 is a lot more diverse, unique, and accepting. However, MJ was introduced in the college years anyway so....

Besides, I never got the impression that MJ is the out of league type. Just that she's supposed to be very beautiful, wickedly attractive. Not exactly that she's unattainable, like a popular mean girl like Liz Allan.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

yeah, in the new DC Rebirth, "classic" married Clark and Lois are back in continuity.

those, it's a bit "convoluted" how they went about it.

yeah, there's no reason why Zendaya's character couldn't have been someone like Carlie Cooper. change a character like that, and most people would shrug their shoulders and move on.

The reason I can't really get down with DC anymore is the almost yearly reboot lol. Haven't bothered to check into anything post-Rebirth (don't even know what it is).

Exactly, we don't even know what Carlie was like in HS anyway lol. There would be complaints, but nothing like over a totally new story/attitude/look/etc for MJ.

I see your point of view, but I would definitely say that the current high school crowd today, in 2016 is a lot more diverse, unique, and accepting. However, MJ was introduced in the college years anyway so....

Besides, I never got the impression that MJ is the out of league type. Just that she's supposed to be very beautiful, wickedly attractive. Not exactly that she's unattainable, like a popular mean girl like Liz Allan.

Good point in that last sentence. I still maintain (at least where I'm from) that stereotypes still hold true for the most part as far as the HS crowd goes--although 616 MJ probably never was in the in-crowd anyway.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

All in all, as nervous as I am, I'm trying to keep an open mind about this and accept changes if they're good and not contrived for no reason. Still sucks not seeing a more faithful MJ as far as we know, though.

 

[X Knight]

All in all, as nervous as I am, I'm trying to keep an open mind about this and accept changes if they're good and not contrived for no reason. Still sucks not seeing a more faithful MJ as far as we know, though.

I'm trying to keep an open mind, too, and wait till I at least see some footage ( too bad they didn't release the CC footage ).

but, if I hear them making one more major change ( like changing JJJ into female Jonah Jameson or something ) then I think I'm out. I'm out.

or else I hear someone confirm that Michelle's name really is Michelle and MJ stands for Michelle J-something.

that gets strongly confirmed? I'm out. No more.

 

[TheVileOne]

If that's true...... That's terrible...

Sorry if I don't believe anything from 4chan.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

I said it in the main thread but if they gender-swap J. Jonah Jameson or anymore drastic, unnecessary changes and I'll come to the conclusion this is Marvel Studios Presents "Politically-Correct Spider-Man" vs. Spider-Man.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I said it in the main thread but if they gender-swap J. Jonah Jameson or anymore drastic, unnecessary changes and I'll come to the conclusion this is Marvel Studios Presents "Politically-Correct Spider-Man" vs. Spider-Man.

it's not even politically correct at this point.. its not realism it's Idealism.

 

[X Knight]

it's not even politically correct at this point.. its not realism it's Idealism.

it's fanfiction..........

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Which is getting to a point where I and others have asked, "When does it stop?" When does this stop looking, sounding and acting like a Spider-Man film and more of Spider-Man In Name Only.

I fear if more changes come (which at that point I am exiting ship because this is getting too much) then the only films who that have some resemblance to the comics will be Raimi's movies but even those took liberties.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

I'm trying to keep an open mind, too, and wait till I at least see some footage ( too bad they didn't release the CC footage ).

but, if I hear them making one more major change ( like changing JJJ into female Jonah Jameson or something ) then I think I'm out. I'm out.

or else I hear someone confirm that Michelle's name really is Michelle and MJ stands for Michelle J-something.

that gets strongly confirmed? I'm out. No more.

I won't be out because Marvel has me by the balls lol but my excitement meter will go way down. Probably won't see it in theaters 6 times like I did Civil War for sure if those things happen. Once will do... maybe.

Idk, I saw TASM2 3 times in the theater despite not loving it. I'm a sucker for any big screen Spidey I guess.

 

[X Knight]

Which is getting to a point where I and others have asked, "When does it stop?" When does this stop looking, sounding and acting like a Spider-Man film and more of Spider-Man In Name Only.

I fear if more changes come (which at that point I am exiting ship because this is getting too much) then the only films who that have some resemblance to the comics will be Raimi's movies but even those took liberties.

same here.

I'll rewatch SSM again.

or hell, I'll rewatch the TASM movies. if I can rewatch those and say they feel more faithful than Homecoming, then you know something went very wrong in this process........lol.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Which is getting to a point where I and others have asked, "When does it stop?" When does this stop looking, sounding and acting like a Spider-Man film and more of Spider-Man In Name Only.

I fear if more changes come (which at that point I am exiting ship because this is getting too much) then the only films who that have some resemblance to the comics will be Raimi's movies but even those took liberties.

TASM series definitely was influenced by comics but after the origin story I can see why some don't think so as much.

Still, no adaptation will be exact. I'm thankful for that.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

yeah if this gets any worse im skipping it completely... im already thinking i wont go see it in theaters...

I like tom, so ill support his popping up in the other MCU films. but his solos i may sit out.. and it hurts even thinking about being done with my favorite property.

 

[harryoscop]

yeah if this gets any worse im skipping it completely... im already thinking i wont go see it in theaters...

I like tom, so ill support his popping up in the other MCU films. but his solos i may sit out.. and it hurts even thinking about being done with my favorite property.

What would turn you off to the point you don't see it? just curious.

 

[Flint Marko]

All of you are going to go see this in theaters.