If they don't do a triple threat for WM, it's going to be a repeat of last year's lackluster match. In fact, both of Rock's matches with Punk have been terrible, and that's with Punk carrying him the whole way. He's not in ring shape at all, and he gassed way too early in both.
Agreed. Again.
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Cena is not the issue in these matches. Punks not either. It Rock. He's the common factor in the weaker matches. He's carrying too much bulk and his cardio isn't what it should be.
Punk and Cena showed monday the main event of WM29 could use Punk. He adds an extra spark.
Originally Posted by the dmg
I'm no Cena fan, but the guy can work great matches when he's allowed to showcase them or when he's not being Super Cena.
Yeah. Thats why I love when he works matches like the one he did with Punk on Raw. He becomes the John Cena more fans want to see.
I disagree about that. If they do that it wastes the actual payoff, which is still something I'm not looking forward to.
Plus, it's not the chemistry that's the issue, it's that Rock isn't in the condition he needs to be to even put on a fifteen minute match. He needs to work house shows and a few Raws to at least get some sort of conditioning.
Yep. Tag matches aren't going to help if he's not doing them regularly. Rock HAD a tag match with Cena at Survivor Series and it didn't do sh** to help his match against Cena at WM a few months later.
If it was only about chemistry that would be one thing but its not. Rocks had subpar matches with Cena AND Punk. Nobody can say Punk can't work or needs to be carried. Every match Rock has had has been at best passable.
And kinks my a**. Its way more than that. Rock needs MORE ring time. Singles matches would be the best for that beause even singles matches have a different pacing than tag matches. Even at house shows. But Mr Hollywood is too busy to work house shows as champion. Thats why a lot of people here were down on him getting the title as a part timer. He's not going to be able to have a run that lives up to what it should be.
Originally Posted by
Hunter Rider
Shawn is my favourite ever wrestler but I thought that was just him being a dick and wanting Earl out of his spotlight.
Exactly. Shawns said he didn't mean anything by what happened when the match was over. He just wanted the moment to himself because it was so special to him. He'd worked a long time to realize his dream.
If you call the match off the cuff in the ring you cannot avoid spot calling, it's the producers fault that they zoom in on it. The match was a 5 star match IMO.
Right. I've seen a ton of guys call the matches over the years. That has nothing to do with how good someone is. Its only getting more obvious because the mics are catching more noise and the producers are using more and closer camera shots and different angles. WWE has gotten really bad about putting the camera in the wrong places at the wrong times sometimes.
Originally Posted by Scar Predator
Cena's best matches, which are few and far between, have usually been when he's been carried. When you are the #1 guy, you should be the one who can carry anyone to a great match.
I believe that both chemistry and muscle memory are the issues with the ME at 'Mania. Rock is older, slower, and not sharp right now. Cena's rarely sharp. They need to develop some interesting, well-honed sequences or they might well come off as merely decent like last year
Even most great workers can't carry EVERYONE. Cena knows how to work. He's had great matches with people that weren't traditional workers. Big men, monsters, small guys, high flyers, etc. When you can work with that variety of talent you can work. Cenas no the problem its th Rock. It ain't muscle memory. He's just getting GASSED too fast and turning in mediocre work because he not willing to try harder.
Jericho's taken years off at a time but every time he comes back its like he hasn't missed a beat. Thats because Jericho's kept his cardio up and doesn't carry extra size that slows him down or makes his movements robotic and limited.
Originally Posted by bullets
I agree. Although people don't expect Punk to end the streak the version of him we saw Monday will offer a very compelling match.
Yeah despite the obvious outcome someone like Punk will be able to help Taker put on at the very least a solid match. Its much better than Taker being stuck with someone like Ryback.
What Vince is doing with Ziggler is insane. He should be rewarded for his efforts , not punished. I could understand having him lose a couple matches , but jobbing him out consistently is a waste. I still have hope since he was randomly added to the Elimination Chamber PPV , but they better not drop the ball with this guy.
TNA might not be the most financially successful company , but they don't run stars into the ground like WWE. I think that's a big thing to consider and why Jeff Hardy and Kurt Angle seem happy. Also Dixie doesn't have that vindictive side if you try to do an outside venture. I understand it even though I had hopes of seeing Jeff Hardy back in WWE.
Like I said before Vince is probably doing this for a few reasons. Because he's not concerned with anyone but the top guys. Because he has no interest in strong heels and usually just sees them as there to lose to the good guys. To hell with intriguing stories being told in the ring. He also wants to keep guys like Ziggler in line by breaking them down mentally. I've always said Vince wants the WWE brand to draw now. Not so much the stars. By showing Ziggler that he controls the course of his career he keeps more power to make sure something like past stars gaining too much power of their own won't happen.
No more Kliqs, or Austins, or Hogans, or Warriors holding him over a barrel with their star power to get what they want. Thats why the brand is the draw now not the stars. With no real stars except for a handful everybody is easily replacable. Even that handful has less power and fewer choices than their predacessors. Everyone else is just a cog. When one of the midcarders causes problems just swap out an old unwanted cog in the WWE machine for a new one. With Vince's ego he still thinks he can snap his fingers and "make" someone. Its all ego driven on Vince's part and yeah its stupid.
Originally Posted by the_ultimate_evil
I wonder if the main problem with Ziggler is simply us. The iwc
Now it's no surprise that the IWC love everything ziggler does and again it's no surprise hhh and Vincent hate the IWC so with the constant praise we heap on Ziggler are with the ones at fault for his stalled push
It wouldn't shock me. Vince is so petty I could see him stalling Zigglers progress just to stick it to the smart fans and prove he's "right" and others are wrong. Normally that would sound silly like a conspiracy theory but Vince isn't your usual rational person. Everyone who has watched his actions over the years knows that.
The stuff with Glenn Beck is a prime example. Kevin Kelly posted an interesting article recently that revealed that McMahons beef with Beck goes back almost fifteen years!
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Thats why he's staying on this issue.
I think the most obvious answer is Vince doesn't see much in Ziggler besides the athleticism. He doesn't see him as a "star" or what a top guy "should be." Its the same problem he's had with Christian for years so it wouldnt surprise me if thats also why he's holding Dolph back. McMahon's stubbornly stuck in his ways and on his vision. He only changes complex opinions or ways of doing things unless he's forced to.
Originally Posted by
The Sage
Thinking about it, Rock may want to give DDP Yoga a try. Chris Jericho's 42 now and he's able to retain his in-ring shape in between his appearances. He said in an interview two weeks ago that outside from core work with a personal trainer, he doesn't
go to the gym![](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.intellitxt.com%2Fast%2FadTypes%2Ficon1.png&hash=e81bd860c9d9ddbb8cfc25f12728f3b8)
anymore. He does DDP Yoga while he's on the road, when he gets free time.
DDP Yoga plus more in-ring time could benefit Rock. As Punk said to him in a tweet, "
Heavy barbell curls do not help you breathe."
*ahem*... anyway... I agree. Maybe DDP's work could help him. He needs to do something to improve his agility, his speed, his flexability, and his cardio. Jericho is older than The Rock and also a part timer (who does more wrestling than Rock) yet he smokes him in the ring despite also having some long layoffs. Thats why I respect Jericho's in ring work ethic far more. He doesn't come back only to half ass it. He makes sure the people get their moneys worth instead of letting himself blow up after ten minutes.
Originally Posted by
Hunter Rider
Haha! I think it happened a couple of times in his matches with Joe as well. Sid used to be the worst, I remember him working Shawn and Hall in matches where he would openly tap his arm and grunt "Clothesline" while they were standing on opposite sides of the ring.
I've seen Triple H do something similar by tapping his leg to call a spot with a hand signal. It happens. I even knew exactly what he was going to do before he did it and I was right.