The Dark Knight Things The Dark Knight got Right/Wrong

[Carmine Falcone]

I'm a big fan of the Batman voice. Because of it, Bale dissapears into the Batman role. I especially liked it in the final situation with Harvey. ''You're the one pointing the gun Harvey, so point it, at the people, responsible'', and then that small heads gesture he makes while saying it. It's awesome.

 

[Hole Shot]

I really don't have a lot to complain about, for my own taste this movie is damn close to perfect given that I have yet to regret all the times I've paid $10 to $15 to see it in the last month.

So I'll nitpick.

- Joker's long hair still bugs me. I'd rather it be shorter and wild or just always be back like it was in the jail scene.

- The Michael Bay movie refugee that road in the SWAT van with Gordon was annoying as hell.

 

[CaptainClown]

1. The guy pulled a gun on him...how else is he supposed to react? And no, I doubt that was supposed to have any siginifance on Harvey eventually becoming Two-Face.
Btw, that was one of them pointless and weird scenes in the movie

2. How did the system get his fiancee killed? If it was the system, she'd have been taken to trial for a crime......


4. " Also a person running for DA would not really get by with having mental issues"

Which is why I said it deepens the character. It forces Harvey to hide that from the public. This brings a new dynamic to Harvey Dent that otherwise doesn't exist

In no way is having a mental problem a "cop out" in the same breath as "this is the scene where Harvey starts pulling a gun on a guy for supposely killing Gordon despite the fact that Gordon wasn't an impact on Harvey's Life"

If someone had a gun pointed to you, you would punch them? I doubt it, many people just would comply. The scene served as the introduction of Harvey Dent. He doesn't take **** from the mob and is going to do things the traditional way. It showed his "grudge" against Maroni and the relationship with Rachel. It was also a nod to TLH where that is how Two-face got scarred.

The system failed to approhend and prosecute the corrupt cops. Those corrupt cops kidnapped rachel and indirectly caused her death

Even if Harvey had to hide his illness it would not be hard to figure out. Whether it be medication or seeing a psychiatrist. You can get whatever you want in Gotham, and with the huge politcal campaign against Dent I would not be surprised if the mob would have bribed or beaten people to get some dirty on Dent. I mean would you really want an unstable DA?

As for Dent trying to kill Gordon he had a reason. He believed that Gordon was trying to have him killed. He was against Gordon for going behind his back, he was against Gordon for keeping dirty cops on his team. He saw Gordon as the enemy and in a way he was. Dent wanted Gordon to suffer like him he even says so in the end.

Again I will say a dual identity is a cope out because it means Harvey isn't responsible for his actions. It means Gordon could tell Gotham " Harvey was very sick in the head and it was another persona that killed those cops" If it was a dual personality the white knight would have not fallen instead it was someone else who caused all that trouble. If its Harvey Dent who pulls the trigger it shows that he himself has fallen from grace and it was not another voice in his head that did decided for him.

Unlike the "Killing Joke", The Joker was never the "White Knight" of Gotham.
And this discussion is completely irrelevent. Even if there is a parallell like you seem to imply, you're actually showing why this isn't Two-Face

No it has nothing to do with the Joker except that the Joker tortured Gordon. He was trying to make Gordon crack and break down by paralyzing his daughter and taking dirty photos of her and torturing him. He was trying to prove that madness was the only ticket out of the suffering. Now with TDK just replace Gordon with Dent and replace Barbara with Rachel. Joker did the same thing except Dent sucumbed to madness to cope with his grief and what just happened.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

I really like TAS' version of Two-Face. Its FAR from subtle though. It wouldn't have worked for this movie.

I was so thrilled at TDK's version of Two-Face. The look is pitch-perfect. And his story was well told. It couldn't have continued.

 

[CaptainClown]

I really like TAS' version of Two-Face. Its FAR from subtle though. It wouldn't have worked for this movie.

I was so thrilled at TDK's version of Two-Face. The look is pitch-perfect. And his story was well told. It couldn't have continued.

ya that is the huge problem with this two-face it was well thought out and passionate but finite. I am satisfied with it though. I do like the TAS two-face but I do feel that after his origin story it really goes nowhere.

 

[Harrygucha]

I'm a big fan of the Batman voice. Because of it, Bale dissapears into the Batman role. I especially liked it in the final situation with Harvey. ''You're the one pointing the gun Harvey, so point it, at the people, responsible'', and then that small heads gesture he makes while saying it. It's awesome.

I agree. For some reason people want Bale to sound like Bruce Wayne in the bat-suit. It would just be ridiculous. Batman is a beast. And when Christian is in the suit, he is a beast. Remember, Batman is not mentally stable. HE should sound like a monster. And i'm glad he does.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

Yes, the second part of the '"Two-Face'' episodes was considerably less interesting.

Dark Victory took Two-Face on an interesting route though.

 

[CaptainClown]

Yes, the second part of the '"Two-Face'' episodes was considerably less interesting.

Dark Victory took Two-Face on an interesting route though.

Ya that was an interesting story, thats why I kind of want two-face to be alive so they could introduce Janice Porter

 

[Harrygucha]

ya that is the huge problem with this two-face it was well thought out and passionate but finite. I am satisfied with it though. I do like the TAS two-face but I do feel that after his origin story it really goes nowhere.

The whole point of Two-Face was to show that the Joker won. One of the three men fell...and it was Harvey. "When the chips are down, these civillized people will eat each other." Joker proved his point by driving Harvey insane. All three men fell (Harvey, Gordon, Batman). Only one was corruptible - Harvey. Batman is SO incorrubtible that he absorbs the impact of Harvey's fall, and asks Gordon to pin the murders on him to prove to the public the the joker did NOT win. If the public were to have found out about Harvey's fall they would go insane. Batman covers it up, Gordon goes along with it. You couldn't have done anymore with the two-face character.

 

[CaptainClown]

The whole point of Two-Face was to show that the Joker won. One of the three men fell...and it was Harvey. "When the chips are down, these civillized people will eat each other." Joker proved his point by driving Harvey insane. All three men fell (Harvey, Gordon, Batman). Only one was corruptible - Harvey. Batman is SO incorrubtible that he absorbs the impact of Harvey's fall, and asks Gordon to pin the murders on him to prove to the public the the joker did NOT win. If the public were to have found out about Harvey's fall they would go insane. Batman covers it up, Gordon goes along with it. You couldn't have done anymore with the two-face character.

I know the point of the two-face story. Thats why I said thats the biggest let down of the character is that its finite and only works within a certian amount of time..

 

[dodgers2213]

ugh, wow that was a sad argument

If a man pulls a gun on you when he's right in your face...if you're smart then you'd react. Harvey punched him and thats it
The scene says nothing about the character other than he's a DA and people love him (people celebrate at the end of that court scene)

you seem to have a lack of understand at what makes for good character depth. You actually, once again, argued in my favor:

"Even if Harvey had to hide his illness it would not be hard to figure out. Whether it be medication or seeing a psychiatrist. You can get whatever you want in Gotham, and with the huge politcal campaign against Dent I would not be surprised if the mob would have bribed or beaten people to get some dirty on Dent. I mean would you really want an unstable DA"

NOW that is an interesting side story we could have had to the film. The mob trying to expose Harvey and his illness. Harvey and his hidden mental weakness. And guess what? It could have led to another film. But do we get it? Nope, we get a dead Two-Face who just seemingly went crazy even though he was a great guy with nothing wrong with him.

BAD writing

Heh, you are not impressing me with your "Well, actually the mental illness is a cop out" argument.
I mean, would you NOT want to see how Gotham has to deal with their ex White Knight now turned criminal? That makes for a really cool sounding movie.
Instead, joker gives Dent some inane speech that led to nowhere, said nothing, and easily persuaded him to go on a small rampage that eventually led to the death of two-face
Btw, the scene how Two-Face died was also BS. That could have easily been writin around too

So with that, I'm out. I have no idea why you can't understand how Excluding the Multiple Personality Disorder left Harvey Dent without any real character depth

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

- Joker's long hair still bugs me. I'd rather it be shorter and wild or just always be back like it was in the jail scene.

-

The bit when he jumps out the body bag and his hair is kinda pulled back looked good, other than that, I agree, didn't like the floppy hair.

 

[CaptainClown]

Being smart has nothing to do with reacting to a gun. You can say "oh ya I would definitly have moved out of the way" or "oh ya I would have punched him" but it all comes down to the person and how they react. There was a lot of detail in that scene which introduced the character. Because you are so bias towards your preference you are failing to see what was intended by the character.

Now if you wanted to see all that in a movie thats good for you, but I wanted to see Harvey Dent as a DA not running for it. If what I said was to take place the story would have taken place before he was the DA. That would mean he wouldn't be the champion of Gotham just trying to be, nullifying most of the plot of TDK.

Also it could not have lead to another film without totally being unfaithful to Two-face what makes him a strong character is he has a distorted view of Justice. What you are asking for is him to begin robbing Banks etc like in the comics.

I do understand the way to go with a multiple personality of Harvey Dent. I do think its good in certain story arcs, however I feel that the way he was portrayed grasps the characters emotional status better then two personalities.

It is however clear you are dissapointed with the direction of Two-face but you again you are refusing the see the facts that were presented through the movie. Dent has been shown to be a tad emotional throughout the beginning. He is a hit first ask questions later type of guy. You can gather that from the scene where he grabbed the gun, pure reaction. When he kidnapped the Joker goon pure reaction and filled with emotion. Even when he is talking to Gordon about the nickname he has an undertone of disdain for Gordon.

Harveys Dent wasn't spelled out through another personality instead it was through his actions throughout the movie, It is disappointing you didn't enjoy it but to each his own.

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

I'm a big fan of the Batman voice. Because of it, Bale dissapears into the Batman role. I especially liked it in the final situation with Harvey. ''You're the one pointing the gun Harvey, so point it, at the people, responsible'', and then that small heads gesture he makes while saying it. It's awesome.

Agreed. Even though Heath's definitely getting the Oscar, Bale gets his badass cred.

 

[Hole Shot]

A thing this movie got right that I don't think has been getting the praise it deserves: James Gordon.

Oldman ruled. I put him right behind Heath as one of the best performances of the year.

 

[whiteoleander]

I thought Dent had more depth than any other character in the film.

Also, from a psych standpoint, multiple personalities almost always arise from trauma. They're less overt/more cohesive at first, then they spread further outward and can exist independent of one another. Had Harvey lived another couple of months in Arkham or elsewhere, it would have been realistic for him to become more and more of a dual personality.

 

[Bat-Mite]

- The Michael Bay movie refugee that road in the SWAT van with Gordon was annoying as hell.

Oh, that was one of the few things I really disliked about the movie and I wish they would have edited his speaking parts out completely. He couldn't act at all and his lines were horrible to boot. It really took me out of the moment even on my first viewing of the film. I know that he's just in the movie for a few seconds, so it's no biggie, but I think the film would have been much better off without him and his idiotic dialogue and crappy performance.

 

[miggizle85]

Wrong
- Gotham no longer looked like Gotham
- Scarecrow was really pointless
- Batcave stand-in was kind of cheesey (talk about cutting production costs. "Okay let's just film those scenes inside a Refrigerator")
- Batman saving Rachael scene. (was kinda fake and redundant. Why have her saved in one scene just to have her blown up in another?)
- Batpod backflip off the wall
- Harvey loses his morals a little too easily
- Bat Sonar wasn't really as "Wrong" as Fox played it out to be (Compared to other things he's gone along with)
- Batman's voice (I could understand him perfectly in Begins. What happend?)
- Joker's last scene was so abrupt. i expected to see him at least once more
- No post-credit scene (I wanted Joker meeting his doctor Harlene Quinselle at Arkham)

 

[miggizle85]

Right

Everything else

9.5/10 on my meter.

 

[DarkKnight245]

Right-Everything
Wrong-Nothing.

 

[ronny]

- Harvey loses his morals a little too easily

What? Harvey becomes even more moralistic after the accident. Because he then decides that he can decide whether or not people live or die. It wasn't a case of losing his morals but rather backing them up at the barrel of a gun.
The old Harvey would simply throw the crooked cops and gangsters into jail, the new Harvey would put a bullet between their eyes.

 

[metalhead_dave]

The bad

No style, boring, boring, boring

Stupid looking batman suit

Batman is no longer fear and terror, he is a guy who hangs around the police station and has a soar throat

No Robin

No batcave

No bat's for the matter, non, not one bat, at all

Didn't his parents die? I guess he forgot.

Two-face dies (I think anyway) transformation from good to evil'ish wasn't convincing

Heath Ledger was not as great as people make him out to be

Makeup

overlong

pretentious

Batman Begins had emotion to it, I didn't get this from this film

Uhuh... Well I guess there's no pleasing everyone. But then again, who cares about pleasing the most cynical nitpickers in the earth?

Oh and by the way... Heath Ledger IS as great as people make him out to be.

Uno Mas. Put me in the camp who likes Bale's Batvoice.

 

[dodgers2213]

^^some of those things are nitpicks

others are really big problems

but hey, its his opinion. I'm sure he'd be fine with debating you his points. I jumped in because i don't appreciate the people who overly love this film going around doing this "" to other people's opinion

 

[metalhead_dave]

^^some of those things are nitpicks

others are really big problems

but hey, its his opinion. I'm sure he'd be fine with debating you his points. I jumped in because i don't appreciate the people who overly love this film going around doing this "" to other people's opinion

Well when presented with obvious nitpicks like what he said, as well as some comments like Heath being overrated where it seems like it's just a party pooper statement, I'll be glad to use that little guy in response.

I love how he rolls his eyes. It's so cute

 

[ThePoisonPuppet]

Instead, joker gives Dent some inane speech that led to nowhere, said nothing, and easily persuaded him to go on a small rampage that eventually led to the death of two-face
Btw, the scene how Two-Face died was also BS. That could have easily been writin around too

Actually I was kind of under the impression that Dent was planning on getting revenge from the point where he screamed at Gordon to tell him the name they called him at the police station and that the Joker's speech didn't really convince him much. I mean he still wanted to kill him. The Joker just got lucky.

The way I saw it was that The Joker really just gave him the gun and was mostly there to see the product of his "experiment". It wasn't so much The Joker's speech that was what corrupted Two-Face as it was all the things that happened up to that point. You have to remember for a large part he'd even lost faith in Batman (who was going to give himself up if Harvey had not intervened) and if he had heard any news, (which might be possible) he'd know that Lau was gone and with him half his case that he worked so hard on. His face was scarred, his finance was dead, batman proved disappointing at best, the police were all corrupt and his legal case, his attempt to do justice through the system was out the window. If thats not someone's life going down the drain all at once I don't know what is.

Oh and you have to remember he did have some rogue qualities in him before that. He did basically kidnap that convict and threaten to blow his brains out when he saw the threat to Rachel through the name tag.