TIH Sequel changes?

[El Payaso]

We just need to agree to disagree with this. To me, there was a clear demonstration in TIH with who the monster/killer was, and it wasn't the Hulk.

Both monsters killed people; the fact that Abomination was on a wild killerspree doesn't diminish Hulk's guilt.

Sure, comparatively Hulk was a lkinmd monster, but he killed in cold blood nevertheless. That's not my opinion; it did happen in the movie.

In fact that is what the movie studied: what makes a monster.

And yet the movie put Betty Ross as the one factor that stopped Hulk from killing, it wasn't Hulk himself as usual.

Abom's rampage into the crowd clearly defined what one can do with such a power. It was classic heroism with the Hulk confronting and stopping Abom by preserving the life of many people.

It is hard to say if Hulk did it to protect the innocent or just because he's used to fight anything that's against him. It's well stated that Banner had to make a huge effort to "direct" Hulk's power against ABomination. He wasn't even sure it was going to work.

But even if he had a heroic behaviour then, that doesn't exculpate his previous killing acts and intentions.

Betty's involvement at the end was a subtle reminder to the Hulk: don't let yourself become a monster.

Exactly: stop killing dear; that's not the way. It will only lead you to be chased with a reason.

Had we had a Hulk who stopped himself from killing even when he was too angry we wouldn't have needed subtle reminders. Like we didn't need them in Ang Lee's Hulk.

 

[dcHulk]

Both monsters killed people; the fact that Abomination was on a wild killerspree doesn't diminish Hulk's guilt.

Sure, comparatively Hulk was a lkinmd monster, but he killed in cold blood nevertheless. That's not my opinion; it did happen in the movie.



And yet the movie put Betty Ross as the one factor that stopped Hulk from killing, it wasn't Hulk himself as usual.



It is hard to say if Hulk did it to protect the innocent or just because he's used to fight anything that's against him. It's well stated that Banner had to make a huge effort to "direct" Hulk's power against ABomination. He wasn't even sure it was going to work.

But even if he had a heroic behaviour then, that doesn't exculpate his previous killing acts and intentions.



Exactly: stop killing dear; that's not the way. It will only lead you to be chased with a reason.

Had we had a Hulk who stopped himself from killing even when he was too angry we wouldn't have needed subtle reminders. Like we didn't need them in Ang Lee's Hulk.

Okay...

 

[Cracker Jack]

In TIH Hulk kept killing people (or trying to do so, Blonsky survived only because of the super soldier serum). In Lee's Hulk he tried to save the very pilot who tried to kill him first. In TIH the only reason why he didn't kill Abomination was because Betty asked him not to.

So when the Hulk, in Ang’s movie, chucked a missel at that helicopter he was only trying to what.........scare them. Or when he jumped on the helicopter crashing it to the ground or pounded on the tank with the gun barrel he was just saying hello? Suppose when he tossed that huge manhole cover thing at Ross he was just playing frisbee? Please. This thread is about things you’d like to see in TIH 2 not how wonderful Ang’s movie was. N't.

 

[Sarg92]

So when the Hulk, in Ang’s movie, chucked a missel at that helicopter he was only trying to what.........scare them. Or when he jumped on the helicopter crashing it to the ground or pounded on the tank with the gun barrel he was just saying hello? Suppose when he tossed that huge manhole cover thing at Ross he was just playing frisbee? Please. This thread is about things you’d like to see in TIH 2 not how wonderful Ang’s movie was. N't.

Another great post as usual CJ!

 

[El Payaso]

So when the Hulk, in Ang’s movie, chucked a missel at that helicopter he was only trying to what.........scare them.

Absolutely.

If he wanted to kill the soldiers he would have aimed that missile directly to them - as Leterrier's Hulk did - and not only to the tail.

Or when he jumped on the helicopter crashing it to the ground or pounded on the tank with the gun barrel he was just saying hello?

No, since Ang Lee's Hulk doesn't speak.

But again, if he was trying to kill them he would have thrown or smashed the helicopter until it had exploded - as certain killing Hulk did - but he didn't. He just tackled it. When someone tackles another guy this other guy rarely dies, right? Hulk was using his own body to attack so he was goping to suffer the same as the helicopter; both landed heavily but far from being in vital danger.

Suppose when he tossed that huge manhole cover thing at Ross he was just playing frisbee? Please.

Yeah, suppose he threw it directly towards people not the superior zone of the room.

This thread is about things you’d like to see in TIH 2 not how wonderful Ang’s movie was. N't.

And I would want a Hulk that doesn't kill in TIH2. Like Ang Lee's Hulk, the comic books one, the 1966, 1982 and 1990's cartoons and even the TV series one.

 

[dcHulk]

Okay, I'm pretending to be LL's incredible Hulk and I would like to stomp, aka "kill" this never ending argument. As CJ so eloquently said, this board is not a shrine for Ang's Hulk.

 

[AIRWOLF]

In my opinion, both Hulk movies were well done in their own right. They need not to necessarily follow the comics that closely in terms of whether Hulk kills or not, if we look at realistically: Hulk is a creature made purely out of rage, and in that sort of anger who knows what a man can or can't do, however, every man is capable of murder depending on the circumstances. Also, Dr. Banner refers to Hulk as a completely different entity, that is to say, it is not Banner at all. Who knows, this sort of behavior might have created some complications in his mind and a different personality altogether when Hulk emerges. So we can't say for sure that Hulk doesn't kills.

 

[Judson Caspian]

A Hulk film with no casualties is absolutely ridiculous. People in circumstances like that are going to get killed sooner or later, unless they're injected with a hell of a lot of super soldier serum. The Hulk maybe kills, but it's not intentionally. He's not a murderer.

 

[El Payaso]

In my opinion, both Hulk movies were well done in their own right. They need not to necessarily follow the comics that closely in terms of whether Hulk kills or not, if we look at realistically: Hulk is a creature made purely out of rage, and in that sort of anger who knows what a man can or can't do, however, every man is capable of murder depending on the circumstances.

That's highly debatable. Some people couldn't kill no matter what.

Now, if Hulk can protect Betty and is able to jump away from his enemies, killing is not justifiable even as self-defense.

Also, Dr. Banner refers to Hulk as a completely different entity, that is to say, it is not Banner at all. Who knows, this sort of behavior might have created some complications in his mind and a different personality altogether when Hulk emerges.

Debatable again. Hulk immediately felt things for Betty; that was totally Banner in him.

So we can't say for sure that Hulk doesn't kills.

We cans ay for sure that it has not been part of his character in any incarnation before. And that the killing Hulk justifies everything the Army does against him, erasing the misunderstood monster tragic aspect: "Why can't puny humans leave Hulk alone?", "Well, because you are able to kill people intentionally, big guy."


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A Hulk film with no casualties is absolutely ridiculous.

Oh yes. Now the casualties being a direct responsibility of the Hulk is as ridiculous.

People in circumstances like that are going to get killed sooner or later, unless they're injected with a hell of a lot of super soldier serum.

Or unless their deaths are not Hulk's direct responsibility.

The Hulk maybe kills, but it's not intentionally. He's not a murderer.

Explain to me what part of blasting a helicopter by throwing a big heavy object directly at it is not intentional. Or what about kicking a puny human against a tree so hard that you pulverize his bones. What is accidental about it?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Hulk isn't a murderer, yes he blew up that helicopter to protect the one he loves, can you not relate to that ? I know I would surely whatever is necessary someone, only to protect a loved one (no I'm not, murder. I'm just protective.)

But who is the real monster, Ross orders his men to shoot at the hulk who has done nothing wrong, and Ross nearly gets his daughter killed ? When hulk kicked blonsky he was friggin peeved, I saw that as an equivalent of punching someone in the jaw as hard as possible because they've been hunting you down relentlessly.

But this isn't place for this argument, in the next movie I would clearly address that hulk is no murderer.

 

[dcHulk]

Hulk isn't a murderer, yes he blew up that helicopter to protect the one he loves, can you not relate to that ? I know I would surely whatever is necessary someone, only to protect a loved one (no I'm not, murder. I'm just protective.)

But who is the real monster, Ross orders his men to shoot at the hulk who has done nothing wrong, and Ross nearly gets his daughter killed ? When hulk kicked blonsky he was friggin peeved, I saw that as an equivalent of punching someone in the jaw as hard as possible because they've been hunting you down relentlessly.

But this isn't place for this argument, in the next movie I would clearly address that hulk is no murderer.

I agree, since this seems to be an issue with some. Although I highly doubt that most people who have seen TIH would argue relentlessly that Hulk is a murderer.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Absolutely.

I would want a Hulk that doesn't kill in TIH2. Like Ang Lee's Hulk, :

But Ang's did kill. It neraly killed me to sit through it. BWHAHAHAHAHA . I'm kidding EP. My point is neither were completely faithful to the comic.

Things I'd like to see changed in the sequel. It should not even be implied that the Hulk caused a death due to his rampage or protecting himself from an army hell bent on killing him.

 

[El Payaso]

Hulk isn't a murderer, yes he blew up that helicopter to protect the one he loves, can you not relate to that ?

I can relate to the fact that he was already protecting Betty with his own body. Blowing the helicopter up was beyond protection. The best protection Hulk could have provided was tump out of there. Which he did only after he killed those soldiers.

I know I would surely whatever is necessary someone, only to protect a loved one (no I'm not, murder. I'm just protective.)

If I could jump like Hulk does, I'd rather get out of the line of fire instead of killing.

But who is the real monster, Ross orders his men to shoot at the hulk who has done nothing wrong, and Ross nearly gets his daughter killed ?

Sure, Ross is worse than Hulk, Abomination was worse than Hulk, many charcaters are worse than Hulk.

That doesn't make Hulk innocent from killing. No one can be innocent out of mere comparision. "Sure, I killed but he killed more."

When hulk kicked blonsky he was friggin peeved, I saw that as an equivalent of punching someone in the jaw as hard as possible because they've been hunting you down relentlessly.

Hulk has a tradition in being chased for no reason other than people fearing the way he looks (which forces Hulk to fight back). But no matter how annoyed he has been he hasn't killed because of it. Again, he could have jumped away and run, as he always does; hence a chased monster.

But this isn't place for this argument, in the next movie I would clearly address that hulk is no murderer.

Same here.

And that's why this IS the place for this specific discusion.

But Ang's did kill. It neraly killed me to sit through it. BWHAHAHAHAHA .

I'm kidding EP. My point is neither were completely faithful to the comic.

That's true. In fact no superhero movie has been 100% faithful.

Things I'd like to see changed in the sequel. It should not even be implied that the Hulk caused a death due to his rampage or protecting himself from an army hell bent on killing him.

Same here.

 

[WeaponXProject]

Hulk definitely isn't innocent but it's supposed to be that "werewolf complex" where he can't control his anger. That's the whole issue with the Hulk is controlling that inner monster in himself. If I was that angry and people were trying to hurt me/mortally wound me and I had the power to fight back...you better f***ing believe it I'd fight back.

I guess I'm the only one that doesn't really get bothered by his murder? I think it only makes sense to show Bruce what he has become which makes it even more important to control himself for the sequel.

C'mon its Hollywood, how could you make a movie about a guy that becomes a monster due to his anger issues and not have him kill anybody? It makes no sense for him to run from every battle when his mind is going postal because everyone is chasing him. I think it is more dramatic, more for cinema and creates more of an issue everytime Bruce looks in the mirror.

 

[dcHulk]

Hulk definitely isn't innocent but it's supposed to be that "werewolf complex" where he can't control his anger. That's the whole issue with the Hulk is controlling that inner monster in himself. If I was that angry and people were trying to hurt me/mortally wound me and I had the power to fight back...you better f***ing believe it I'd fight back.

I guess I'm the only one that doesn't really get bothered by his murder? I think it only makes sense to show Bruce what he has become which makes it even more important to control himself for the sequel.

C'mon its Hollywood, how could you make a movie about a guy that becomes a monster due to his anger issues and not have him kill anybody? It makes no sense for him to run from every battle when his mind is going postal because everyone is chasing him. I think it is more dramatic, more for cinema and creates more of an issue everytime Bruce looks in the mirror.

As I have said, I don't consider it murder, just collateral damage.

 

[Obi-Ron]

Self- defense, not murder.

 

[Obi-Ron]

double post

Come to think of it, Thor and Captain America have both probably taken lives as well.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Self- defense, not murder.

Yes to Obi-Ron you listen.

 

[Cracker Jack]

C'mon its Hollywood, how could you make a movie about a guy that becomes a monster due to his anger issues and not have him kill anybody?

Because he's the Hulk. It's not part of him.

Like Dchulk said I don't consider it murder, just collateral damage. I have less a problem with collateral damage than I do with outright murder. The Hulk would not deliberately kill.

 

[Sarg92]

What about killing an enemy, like the Abomination?

Would it have been out of character if Hulk did kill Abomination in TIH?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Yeah this ongoing argument is getting annoying, I pretty sure captain America has killed lots of people, and thor probably has as well.

 

[WeaponXProject]

As I have said, I don't consider it murder, just collateral damage.

That's a way of looking at it. And in the movies he has basic instinct and some mentality as a human...which is why I have no problem with it.

I worded it wrong with murder. It was self-defense like i posted. I just worded it wrong with murder. He is still killing someone but in a sense he has the right to defend himself and he has limited self-control. In this next movie it would be neat to see if he can gain some control.

 

[Cracker Jack]

What about killing an enemy, like the Abomination?

Would it have been out of character if Hulk did kill Abomination in TIH?

When I said "It should not even be implied that the Hulk caused a death due to his rampage or protecting himself from an army hell bent on killing him." I was being sarcastic.

Yes it would be out of character for the Hulk to deliberately kill. Death as the result of the battle has happened several times in the comics. So the Hulk has killed, a foe, but it was the result of the fight. So I would say if the Hulk killed Abomy in TIH it would not have bothered me except that they would have killed off one of the Hulk’s biggest foes.

 

[Obi-Ron]

Hulk should have pulled off 6 of his toes and stretched his ears out.

 

[dcHulk]

Hulk should have pulled off 6 of his toes and stretched his ears out.

LOL! I'll tell ya though, I loved it when Hulk pulled that bone spike out of Abom's arm and stabbed him with it. The final battle was definitely more brutal that I expected.