Tim Burton's Dark Shadows - Part 2

[DarthSkywalker]

I can't remember the last time I liked a movie and was so frustrated by it at the same time.

It reminded me of the theatrical release Kingdom of Heaven in a way. Where it feels as if the film lags because it is too short. They introduce everyone is sweet and subtle way. I like them, I want to get to know them, but in the end we only really get to know Barnabas and Angelique. Everyone else just disappears into the background.

 

[terry78]

You have to give it to Depp though, he nailed the way Frid acted on that show.

 

[DACrowe]

Depp was great. He was so good in the role of Barnabas. He was just so ill-served by a terrible screenplay and a lazy Burton. What sucks is they actually had the tone right for the first 20-30 minutes. The prologue? Victoria's great introduction to Nights of White Satin? Even Barnabas's rise from the grave and return to Collinwood where he meets his descendants for the first time! And then it all just implodes on itself.

The more I think of it, the more of a wasted opportunity that is. The sets, costumes and cinematography are gorgeous. The cast is super. And Depp gives his best performance since Sweeney Todd. And it is all ruined by such lousy writing, pacing and carelessness. A very frustrating movie.

 

[Doctor Jones]

It's not that he is lazy as he is directing from screenplays. It's all about the screenplay with him. I think he would put the same amount of care and effort in anything. As someone who loves the show alongside Depp, I doubt he would think, "Let's not try as hard." If the screenplay is great he can work his magic. If it isn't as great like this, his direction just kind of falls flat. He needs to work on knowing what is a good script and can make something better. Never lazy, just unfocused in more places than others. What he is focused in, you can see his love and care for it.

Even Planet of the Apes. It doesn't seem like lazy filmmaking. It's just the script and Burton sometimes seems to struggle on where to focus the story.

 

[Raiden]

Depp was great. He was so good in the role of Barnabas. He was just so ill-served by a terrible screenplay and a lazy Burton. What sucks is they actually had the tone right for the first 20-30 minutes. The prologue? Victoria's great introduction to Nights of White Satin? Even Barnabas's rise from the grave and return to Collinwood where he meets his descendants for the first time! And then it all just implodes on itself.

The more I think of it, the more of a wasted opportunity that is. The sets, costumes and cinematography are gorgeous. The cast is super. And Depp gives his best performance since Sweeney Todd. And it is all ruined by such lousy writing, pacing and carelessness. A very frustrating movie.

While the screenplay writer is to blame for a mess of a movie, I think both Burton and Depp must be held accountable as well. Depp has enough clout to demand rewrites if he didn't think the script was good enough, and Burton can always deviate from a poor script since he's the director. I think judging from Burton's recent movies, he has been a bit erratic and DS is a result of that.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

While the screenplay writer is to blame for a mess of a movie, I think both Burton and Depp must be held accountable as well. Depp has enough clout to demand rewrites if he didn't think the script was good enough, and Burton can always deviate from a poor script since he's the director. I think judging from Burton's recent movies, he has been a bit erratic and DS is a result of that.

Burton has always seemed to care more about the atomshpere and sets than the story in his movies. Much like Guillermo del Toro.

 

[Doctor Jones]

That's a critcism that's been said for a long time, and only seems to be generalized when he comes out with a lesser film. That's if the movie isn't as good. His best films, the stories are actually as great as his style. The great stories that he brings to life form the good scripts marriages incredibly well with his fairy tale style making it something special.

 

[DACrowe]

It's not that he is lazy as he is directing from screenplays. It's all about the screenplay with him. I think he would put the same amount of care and effort in anything. As someone who loves the show alongside Depp, I doubt he would think, "Let's not try as hard." If the screenplay is great he can work his magic. If it isn't as great like this, his direction just kind of falls flat. He needs to work on knowing what is a good script and can make something better. Never lazy, just unfocused in more places than others. What he is focused in, you can see his love and care for it.

Even Planet of the Apes. It doesn't seem like lazy filmmaking. It's just the script and Burton sometimes seems to struggle on where to focus the story.

While the screenplay writer is to blame for a mess of a movie, I think both Burton and Depp must be held accountable as well. Depp has enough clout to demand rewrites if he didn't think the script was good enough, and Burton can always deviate from a poor script since he's the director. I think judging from Burton's recent movies, he has been a bit erratic and DS is a result of that.

I agree that when Burton has a good story, he can make a great movie. However, the material for Dark Shadows (much like Alice in Wonderland) could make a great movie. However, both turned out mediocre. Burton has enough clout, as you say Raiden, to order rewrites and work on the script. I think he just knows what fun visuals he has for the material and just accepts any hack-ish script. He then turns in a beautiful looking movie that has a lot of great technical feats, acting and even some scenes that work (DS's first act, AIW's use of the Red Queen and White Queen), but as a whole the films are a mess. Burton could demand more.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

This movie was great... but it could have been something truly special. I personally think everyone brought their A-game.

It was only the script that was lacking. It may have needed another rewrite with more focus on characterization and a tighter, more intense story.

A shame really... I think Burton was on top of everything and did the best he could with the script he had.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Burton just needs to hire a screenwriter he can rely. Considering he has a go-to guy for everything else, I'm surprised he doesn't have one.

 

[Lord]

I was liking the film up until the last 20 minutes, and the werewolf twist just came out of nowhere

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Also... is that ''Mommy, where's Daddy?'' bit a reference to the show.

It was nice moment, but I wondered if it was hinting at a larger story from the series.

 

[DACrowe]

It's lyrics from Alice Cooper's "The Ballad of Dwight Frye."

In the show, Carolyin is around 20 and actually becomes Barnabas's minion, confidante, blood-booty call. She's not a werewolf (though she does have a relationship with Quentin/the werewolf of the show). The main dynamics in the movie from the show are Barnabas-Angelique-Victoria/Josette, David does see ghosts (though I can't remember if one was his mother) and Roger is a cad and useless father. However, I don't recall if he ever left the family. Dr. Hoffman also befriends Barnabas and helps cure him. She's in love with him, but it's unrequieted from what I remember.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I agree that when Burton has a good story, he can make a great movie. However, the material for Dark Shadows (much like Alice in Wonderland) could make a great movie. However, both turned out mediocre. Burton has enough clout, as you say Raiden, to order rewrites and work on the script. I think he just knows what fun visuals he has for the material and just accepts any hack-ish script. He then turns in a beautiful looking movie that has a lot of great technical feats, acting and even some scenes that work (DS's first act, AIW's use of the Red Queen and White Queen), but as a whole the films are a mess. Burton could demand more.

I think it just depends on what he thinks is good for every film he's done. He has the clout, but I don't think it's a matter of laziness. He personally was satisfied with the script, but didn't really see what was wrong with it and did his own thing. Like the stuff you said that was strong. He probably put the same effort into that as the lesser stuff, but like I said, doesn't quite see the big picture in how it turns out at times. From reading a book on Burton, on all the film's he's talked about until Planet of the Apes, he doesn't strike me as someone who doesn't try with some of his films. Whatever he finds fascinating, he'll stick to that and apply it to the story that's there. Sometimes it serves the story that is there to bring out the best where it fits in, and sometimes it doesn't. This was the latter.

Hell, the cinematography, while beautiful, left like it was there to just be beautiful and didn't help tell the story.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Spoiler

I'm a werewolf, Mom! DEAL WITH IT!

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Spoiler

i'm a werewolf, mom! Deal with it!

Spoiler

woof!

 

[DACrowe]

I semi-mentioned this in my "review" but this would have made the movie's plot flow much better:



That bittersweet little melody in the show was from Josette's music box. It is an easy-to-use plot device that could have developed Barnabas and Vicky a lot, thereby giving the end more drama and made it less perfunctory when Barnabas turns her.

First, show Barnabas give Josette the music box in their scene in the prologue. Then play a bit of it after she dies in the score, thereby giving it (and her) a haunting melancholy. Barnabas then can find the music box in his treasure room with Elizabeth and listen to it and take it moodily (as opposed to jewelry). If he later gave the music box to Victoria during the party and she recognizes the music and enchanted by it, the revelation that she is really Josette would be less random and would also build their connection more strongly. Also, it underscores their gothic relationship better than Alice Cooper.

It could have done a lot to build their relationship, simply by including it in three scenes already in the movie.

 

[voyzovrezon]

I saw it a few days ago and wrote a little review in the Johnny Depp celebrity thread.

The thing about it being hard to define is because it was campy, dark, funny, and a love story all rolled into one.

But I do agree that there could have been more of a character development for Victoria Winters, but at least the film set up her story as being destined to become the replacement for Barnabas affection. That was good. And the ghost that foretells it "He's coming" was moving and gothic.

I do agree on one thing that a few pointed out in the spoilers. That little bit involving the teenager. That came out of nowhere. And why?

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

this thing was just the epitome of "meh"... just unbelievably bland and unfunny, maybe with the exception of Barnabas and Angelique sexing it up and the end result...

for me, it actually got exciting the last 15 minutes of the movie... but the entire movie as a whole... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

 

[Doctor Jones]

I semi-mentioned this in my "review" but this would have made the movie's plot flow much better:



That bittersweet little melody in the show was from Josette's music box. It is an easy-to-use plot device that could have developed Barnabas and Vicky a lot, thereby giving the end more drama and made it less perfunctory when Barnabas turns her.

First, show Barnabas give Josette the music box in their scene in the prologue. Then play a bit of it after she dies in the score, thereby giving it (and her) a haunting melancholy. Barnabas then can find the music box in his treasure room with Elizabeth and listen to it and take it moodily (as opposed to jewelry). If he later gave the music box to Victoria during the party and she recognizes the music and enchanted by it, the revelation that she is really Josette would be less random and would also build their connection more strongly. Also, it underscores their gothic relationship better than Alice Cooper.

It could have done a lot to build their relationship, simply by including it in three scenes already in the movie.

It's never a good sign for a film when watching it, you think of other ways it could have gone to make it better.

That was me for about 99% of Wolverine.

 

[Tony Stark]

Saw the movie last night with the wife. Let me start out by saying, the only reason to watch this movie is Johnny Depp. He once again shows how he can pull off a convincing performance that can hold together an otherwise ordinary movie.

Now let me just say that this has to be one of the worst written screenplays I've ever seen, and Tim Burton just does a horrible job directing here. I think the first 30-45 minutes of the film are fine, but here's the problem. The vast majority of the characters have great introductions with no follow through. The little boy David, who seems like he is going to be a focal point of the story, along with Victoria are just window dressing. Infact we get this grand introduction to Victoria at the beginning, and she's pretty much forgotten about through the whole middle section of the film.

The main villian Angelina looks great, but there's really nothing there. She's apparently a witch who is immortal and made of porcelain. I don't know why.

The ending of the movie is lazy and sloppy, Burton just felt he had to throw in a big battle scene at the end, but it makes little sense and you don't really care who wins.

As a note, I never really watched Dark Shadows the TV series. The most I was familiar with the series was when the SyFy channel first came out in the 90's (then called SciFi), I remember a huge ad blitz saying they had gained the syndication rights for the series and would be airing it. I'd never even heard of it before then, although the show was off the air by 1971, the year I was born. Ironically, the movie takes place in 1972. But how close the movie was to the TV series, I'd have no idea. However the film just doesn't have enough interesting bits to keep you going the whole way through, but just makes you scratch your head. Perhaps the fans of the show knew more of what was going on.

Despite the setup for a sequel at the end of the film, I'd immagine the film will be burried for as long as Barnabas Collins was in the movie, and we'll forget about it, just like Collins was in the movie.

5.5/10

 

[DACrowe]

It's never a good sign for a film when watching it, you think of other ways it could have gone to make it better.

That was me for about 99% of Wolverine.

Yep. Just a simple and pretty plot device that's in the TV show (not exactly rocket science to crack) would have given so much more investment into Barnabas and Vicky's relationship. Here a few more nuggets: throw out the werewolf crap, HBC going down on Barnabas and the Barry White music. All would have improved the movie.

 

[AnneFan]

I finally saw this and really enjoyed it.

 

[Drizzle]

It was alright. Not Burton's worst film, but not all that memorable either.

 

[Majik1387]

So just watched this, and I enjoyed it. Not one of Burton's best, but not horrible either. I'd say I agree with people about the dodgy third act, just some minor qualms though; I will say I want a monster-movie from Burton.

Loved the opening origin and pretty much is how I wish all origin stories for movies would go. Not overly in depth, but not rushed where it's confusing. It sums it up nicely to start the story for the main time frame.

I like Bella Heathcote as Victoria, I thought she was a bit underused in the sense that she was randomly gone in spots. I will say this though, she looks like a mix of Christina Ricci and Zooey Deschanel(and a little Monica Keena); I half expect her to be a Burton fave actress in future projects of his.
Pfieffer was beautiful and gave a great performance as I expected, I felt she needed more payoff at the end though. Moretz was cool, but I did not get a Lydia Deitz feeling from her at all like previously stated to movie's release. I like Carolyn, but she was no Lydia; and don't get me started on her in the finale.
I liked Dr. Hoffman as well, and I loved the 'doctor/patient confidentiality' humor. I was kind of caught off-guard with what happened to Dr. Hoffman and Mr. Collins; I think it was decent sub-plots, it's just that they're thrown at you too fast for you to give a damn. But I do like the Burton wasn't predictable in what would happen with them until their last scenes. David was decent, especially with how little he was given to do.

The tonal shifts were a bit jarring at times, but didn't ruin the mood for me; I did think that I watched too much of the trailers/promo scenes though as not much of the movie felt new to me. Visuals/setting was amazingly gorgeous, I'd love if Burton's movies were more like this visually. Was kind of surprised how much Burton borrowed from his Batman Returns for Angelique's character, especially at the beginning of the fight in the house at the end, almost a shot for shot remake(pun intended). I love love loved the music from the synthesizer doing soap opera music in the Depp/Pfieffer scene, I was laughing, even though I only remember a bit of the old show, I had a feeling that the pipe organ sounding music played during dramatic moments.

I feel like I'm forgetting things, but my brains pretty scrambled right now.