Time to Discuss Race: The White Washing of The Shredder

[Kal-El.9859]

Heh, isn't that how the rivalry started in the comics? Not over a chick, but that Yoshi killed Saki's brother.

pretty much...

 

[warhorse78]

pretty much...

Hmmmm, maybe we are actually getting to that part of the lore at the end of the movie! The Turtles kill Eric Sachs, and this brings out the real Shredder in the sequel (the sequel that will start to follow the Shredder Strikes Back angle)

This movie does have potential.

I wonder if they go that route, which Turtle is going to nearly killed, Leo or Raph?

 

[Kal-El.9859]

Hmmmm, maybe we are actually getting to that part of the lore at the end of the movie! The Turtles kill Eric Sachs, and this brings out the real Shredder in the sequel (the sequel that will start to follow the Shredder Strikes Back angle)

This movie does have potential.

I wonder if they go that route, which Turtle is going to nearly killed, Leo or Raph?

This really has me interested. I hope they stick as close to the original storyline as possible but I don't mind branching off and following other storylines

 

[warhorse78]

This really has me interested. I hope they stick as close to the original storyline as possible but I don't mind branching off and following other storylines

Yep, same here. (and I don't give a crap what others think, I am all for Apritello!) That's a change I can live with in this incarnation.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

Yep, same here. (and I don't give a crap what others think, I am all for Apritello!) That's a change I can live with in this incarnation.

I'm not going to condemn this movie yet

 

[warhorse78]

I'm not going to condemn this movie yet

I'm going through stages I notice, that stage of grief. At first hearing of the movie about a year ago, I was hyped. And, I am one of the few who do like Michael Bay's movie, including the Transformers (seen the first one like 5 times in the theater) And, I also like Megan Fox, and had no problems with her being April. I saw the white washing of Shredder, but I had just got done watching Ironman 3 when this news broke, so I was already going "heh, he's not the real Shredder, he's just a publicist for the guy, a red herring."

Then the pics of the Turtles started to leak. I was leery, but optimistic. Then the teaser came, and I was kind of let down by Mikey's look, so I guess I went through that stage of grief, where I am angry.

I still don't like the fooking noses on him and Raph, but, I'm liking the tone of the movie, so I'll just wait for the damn thing to hit the theaters before I make any final judgement. But most likely, it comes down to how they portray Raph. Is he going to be a complete bad ass that has wit and cunning, or is he going to be just some bumbling oaf?

 

[Kal-El.9859]

I'm going through stages I notice, that stage of grief. At first hearing of the movie about a year ago, I was hyped. And, I am one of the few who do like Michael Bay's movie, including the Transformers (seen the first one like 5 times in the theater) And, I also like Megan Fox, and had no problems with her being April. I saw the white washing of Shredder, but I had just got done watching Ironman 3 when this news broke, so I was already going "heh, he's not the real Shredder, he's just a publicist for the guy, a red herring."

Then the pics of the Turtles started to leak. I was leery, but optimistic. Then the teaser came, and I was kind of let down by Mikey's look, so I guess I went through that stage of grief, where I am angry.

I still don't like the fooking noses on him and Raph, but, I'm liking the tone of the movie, so I'll just wait for the damn thing to hit the theaters before I make any final judgement. But most likely, it comes down to how they portray Raph. Is he going to be a complete bad ass that has wit and cunning, or is he going to be just some bumbling oaf?

At first I HATED the idea of a white Shredder but now I'm open to seeing what route they are going to take with Shredder

 

[DigificWriter]

There are some pretty strong hints in the teaser trailer that indicate that there's a 'method to the madness' of changing Shredder's ethnicity and alter ego, so I think it's VERY premature to start throwing accusations of 'whitewashing' around or acting like they changed the character's ethnicity and alter ego simply because they could.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

There are some pretty strong hints in the teaser trailer that indicate that there's a 'method to the madness' of changing Shredder's ethnicity and alter ego, so I think it's VERY premature to start throwing accusations of 'whitewashing' around or acting like they changed the character's ethnicity and alter ego simply because they could.

I agree

 

[Zaron]

Where does it stop is the problem. If it's about equality as people are saying it is, then it should be about race changing and not simply fighting a war against the white man.

I know I'm digging up something buried under a couple of pages, but what an asinine statement. It reminds me of this attitude. It's not a "war against the white man" when white people are massively over-represented in media. It's not a "war against the white man" it's "hey white man, we've got barely anything as it is, be satisfied with what you've got and stop trying to take more."

Why is it that I can hunt deer, but not bald eagles? Because we've got enough deer to spare, but bald eagles are extremely few. Why is it okay to make white characters POC but not the other way around? Because there's far, far fewer POC characters. A white kid gets to grow up in america with thousands of characters to look up to who look like him, while any other race will be lucky if he has a few dozen.

It is about equality, and equality means the guy who has practically everything needs to stop being a selfish dick and stop trying to take from others, and not whine when others try to get a bigger share.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

Why they gotta try and bring the white man down?!?!

 

[Zaron]

It's so rude of that guy to object to me picking the toppings off his slice of pizza! He has a whole slice! All I have is just the other seven slices! He's waging war against me!

 

[Marvin]

Now we are straying into territory I hoped to avoid...and complicating the matter even further. But I digress. I'll attempt to keep this brief.
...
In the American mindset, culture is far more liquid, from the ease at which we can dine at restaurants with foreign cuisine, to the fact that we make foreign icons our own. The story of Hercules then, to an American, is more about a powerful hero and his quest than it is about him being Greecian. So when Americans are dealing with characters and stories that aren't American in origin, it muddies the waters of how an adaptation is handled.

An insightful post and really, I was mostly only curious what you thought of these other instances of this same thing happening. Clearly you are aware that the outrage is far less apparent with something like the new Hercules(played by a black actor as far as I'm concerned) when compared to the likes of making shredder white.

You maybe onto something about the non American origin aspect. Then again that didn't really help dragon ball reception any. I still think it boils down to vocal fans. Same with Air Bender.

I don't see what there is to be righteous about or why it is for better or worse. When I enjoy a fictional property I enjoy it for a specific reason, most of the times a good story and that includes characters.

There are people that present their argument as being about either equality or diversity, not so much simply outright Prejudice towards characters, as you have. That's all.

I don't see a paradigm here. What did the TDKT change that made it better than what came before?
And how would a white washed Shredder make for a better dynamic in terms of the Turtles?

Last time I checked, they changed Ra's and Bane's race and origins and the characters have never been as prominent or accepted in pop culture before the fact, even with the back breaking incident. I personally think they improved mandarin in that last film, Fury is as great as ever... We'll see how things go with electro.
I digress. I've seen it change in such a way for the better before, thus I'm keeping an open mind. I find myself wondering if this shredder will be better than the shredder in tmnt2.

As for how to make for a better dynamic, whose to say. I've seen a alien squid shredder work. Anything is possible with good writing. The way I see it, there have been plenty of awesome white villains, this may be another one.

 

[Marvin]

It is about equality, and equality means the guy who has practically everything needs to stop being a selfish dick and stop trying to take from others, and not whine when others try to get a bigger share.

If it's about equality than it means you treat people and the issues equally regardless:

-If a white guy steals ice cream from a black guy it's an issue cause stealing is wrong.

-If a black guy steals ice cream from a white guy it's now a non issue cause there are more white guys with more ice cream....

Sorry, as a black guy myself, I just wanna say that's lame. If you are gonna start **** about a (say)Bruce Lee being miscast, I would hope you start **** about Buzz Aldrin. If not, then I'll start **** about hypocrisy and lack of conviction. Better the guy that has no issue with either. To each his own though.

 

[Zaron]

If it's about equality than it means you treat people and the issues equally regardless:

-If a white guy steals ice cream from a black guy it's an issue cause stealing is wrong.

-If a black guy steals ice cream from a white guy it's now a non issue cause there are more white guys with more ice cream....

false equivalence

 

[DigificWriter]

At this point, a thread like this really serves no purpose other than to facilitate inflammatory behavior and complaining for the sake of complaining, particularly since, as noted, there are some rather strong hints in the teaser trailer that there was a specific storyline reason for changing Shredder's ethnicity and alter-ego.

 

[Nathan]

Now the question is, was that storyline reason worth the change? I'm not really liking the creating heroes premise and the possibility of Splinter being, well, someone else.

 

[DigificWriter]

Now the question is, was that storyline reason worth the change?

That is a question that only the release of the movie is going to be able to answer, and an issue that yet again highlights the complete pointlessness of this type of thread at this stage in the game.

 

[Zaron]

At this point, a thread like this really serves no purpose other than to facilitate inflammatory behavior and complaining for the sake of complaining, particularly since, as noted, there are some rather strong hints in the teaser trailer that there was a specific storyline reason for changing Shredder's ethnicity and alter-ego.

I don't think the issue has ever been whether or not there was a good reason for changing Shredder's race. For all I know it could be absolutely essential to the script. That still doesn't change the ethics of the decision. These are fictional characters. If the story you write requires you to turn a popular existing Asian character into a white man you write a different story.

 

[Teelie]

At this point, a thread like this really serves no purpose other than to facilitate inflammatory behavior and complaining for the sake of complaining, particularly since, as noted, there are some rather strong hints in the teaser trailer that there was a specific storyline reason for changing Shredder's ethnicity and alter-ego.

I agree, although I don't like that they felt the need to write in a white Shredder. It's all justify his existence instead of allowing for a more traditional, appropriately ethnic Shredder. I wonder how many in here would be upset if they did this to April O'Neil. She's not a white woman anymore. She's black. Or asian instead. Maybe she's not even April but Adam O'Neil. But hey, they wrote a reasonable explanation for why she is nothing like the original character so it must be okay.

 

[DigificWriter]

I agree, although I don't like that they felt the need to write in a white Shredder. It's all justify his existence instead of allowing for a more traditional, appropriately ethnic Shredder.

This comment right here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about in terms of why this thread is both premature and pointless right now.

 

[Zaron]

This comment right here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about in terms of why this thread is both premature and pointless right now.

How is it premature? My post explains why I can feel this way about the topic given what information we actually do know.

 

[Marvin]

false equivalence

I don't think so.
You're claiming something is 'right' in one instance, yet the same thing wrong another; and for no other reason than do to the presence of a minority/majority.

 

[Zaron]

I don't think so.
You're claiming something is 'right' in one instance, yet the same thing wrong another; and for no other reason than do to the presence of a minority/majority.

Yet one example is a crime, and the other example is representation in the media. The examples are not comparable, hence false equivalence.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I don't think the issue has ever been whether or not there was a good reason for changing Shredder's race. For all I know it could be absolutely essential to the script. That still doesn't change the ethics of the decision. These are fictional characters. If the story you write requires you to turn a popular existing Asian character into a white man you write a different story.

It seems the story was molded and shifted to fit a white Shredder not the other way around.