TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 3

[Visualiza]

I could understand it if there was no story to be found, you guys are acting like the movie is devoid of any emotion at all.

I most certainly am not; I'm speaking in an abstract sense. Again, you can't seem to entertain the idea that excess is even possible, which I just can't abide. If you can acknowledge that scarcity is an issue(Superman Returns), then even if you don't agree with it, by definition you must be able to acknowledge the idea that excess is a poossible issue as well. However, you're clearly going on the premise that 'Superman is an extreme physical presence, therefore there is no upper limit to the physical conflict he's invloved in' You said it yourself, you can't understand why people would complain about Superman being involved in too much action.

Sorry, but that's illogical, both intrinsically and in a narrative sense. Storytelling IMO should never be approached that way. Balance is one of the most important elements that should be present in every level of any production, from design, to story, to characters.

The whole first hour is story and plot, they just show Clark saving people so it's not as tedious and monotonous as it could of possibly been. But to suggest there's no character stuff in this film at all, when that's pretty much all there is until the last 45 min, is inexplicable to me.

Nowhere did I ever suggest such a thing, not even implicitly. On the other hand, you seem to be suggesting that since there is a plot at all, that not only excuses, but justifies excessive violence. Again, I fail to see the logic here. Excess is not the solution to scarcity.

 

[Mysteryman]

Those that are not using spoiler tags ,
Please note others who are not using spoiler tags are using black bars.
That is an option if you dont want to use the tags .
Thank you .

 

[KalMart]

If they continue with this with more movies, I think dismissing Snyder from any future involvement may be the best thing they can do for it.

Those that are not using spoiler tags ,
Please note others who are not using spoiler tags are using black bars.
That is an option if you dont want to use the tags .
Thank you .

I think the title of this thread clearly indicates spoilers are inside.

 

[EliteF50]

"What's a Cow-El?"

[YT]2vbTGoiWF_8[/YT]

Please tell me that's not real...

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Visualiza, reason thoughtfulness and facts have no place here on the Hype. Shame on you.

 

[Doc Samson]

Just for those talking about underdevelopment and lacking character, and I'm not being facetious, I'm just wondering what in particular did you feel wasn't addressed? Outside of Lois & Clark's shotgun romance which I did feel was a bit fast, I can't really think of anything I would of liked to see expanded, particularly the Daily Planet stuff which obviously they saved for the presumed sequel.

I most certainly am not; I'm speaking in an abstract sense. Again, you can't seem to entertain the idea that excess is even possible, which I just can't abide. If you can acknowledge that scarcity is an issue(Superman Returns), then even if you don't agree with it, by definition you must be able to acknowledge the idea that excess is a poossible issue as well. However, you're clearly going on the premise that 'Superman is an extreme physical presence, therefore there is no upper limit to the physical conflict he's invloved in' You said it yourself, you can't understand why people would complain about Superman being involved in too much action.

Sorry, but that's illogical, both intrinsically and in a narrative sense. Storytelling IMO should never be approached that way. Balance is one of the most important elements that should be present in every level of any production, from design, to story, to characters.



Nowhere did I ever suggest such a thing, not even implicitly. On the other hand, you seem to be suggesting that since there is a plot at all, that not only excuses, but justifies excessive violence. Again, I fail to see the logic here. Excess is not the solution to scarcity.

IDK where you're getting that I can't understand or grasp excessive violence or action. I'm saying in no way do I personally feel it was excessive to begin with because yes, the first third of the movie IMO provides the balance you seem to think it lacks. So as I ask above, tell me what didn't get represented well enough in your eyes in terms of characterization, gravitas, drama, plot, etc.?

 

[EliteF50]

I think Snyder would do a JL film just fine, similar to Avengers, these films don't require much plot or depth they just need to be one big fun climax of a movie. Snyder could do that very well.

Well, Zack's not the one writing the movies. If the script is to blame, it's Goyer's fault. I think a Snyder-directed JL would be amazing, with the right script.

 

[Jwmakoto]

It's strange. I walked out of the midnight showing with many of the same doubts and disappointments racing around in my mind that some people are expressing here (though I did really enjoy it, even the first time).

I just got back from a second showing, and to be honest I thought it was much more emotional with a repeat viewing.

[BLACKOUT]Pa Kent's death[/BLACKOUT] in particular didn't sit well with me at all the first time through, but for some reason it seemed to 'click' the second time around, and was more the incredibly sad scene they were going for to begin with.

Still a bit silly in the set-up, but the scene seemed to have much more weight to it.

As far as Zod goes...

Spoiler

I'm absolutely in the "Superman does not kill, period" crowd here, so I was pretty conflicted after the midnight showing. In the end, the way they portrayed the aftermath of his choice seems slightly rushed, but it works for me - as long as they don't gloss over it in the sequel.

I understand the movie was wrapping up, but one more scene would've been nice. Still, I think I'm ok with it in the end. Having his no-kill rule established because of this would be perfect.

 

[KalMart]

Just for those talking about underdevelopment and lacking character, and I'm not being facetious, I'm just wondering what in particular did you feel wasn't addressed? Outside of Lois & Clark's shotgun romance which I did feel was a bit fast, I can't really think of anything I would of liked to see expanded, particularly the Daily Planet stuff which obviously they saved for the presumed sequel.

It's not so much something not being addressed, but just not being very involving or immersive when it was addressed. It was kinda' like reading Cliffs notes rather than really experiencing a novel. That's why for many it feels devoid of things that were technically included. You heard and saw it was there, but didn't really feel it that well. I probably put that more on the director, but in a lot of ways TDKR suffered from the same problem.

 

[Lencho01]

Please tell me that's not real...

It is real.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think Snyder would do a JL film just fine, similar to Avengers, these films don't require much plot or depth they just need to be one big fun climax of a movie. Snyder could do that very well.

Thats exactly what I dont want JL to be

 

[Jwmakoto]

Please tell me that's not real...

To be fair, the scene with actual special effects added is *slightly* better.

Though that doesn't do anything for the actors themselves haha.

 

[EliteF50]

It is real.

To be fair, the scene with actual special effects added is *slightly* better.

Though that doesn't do anything for the actors themselves haha.

God, that's sad.

 

[Doc Samson]

It's not so much something not being addressed, but just not being very involving or immersive when it was addressed. It was kinda' like reading Cliffs notes rather than really experiencing a novel. That's why for many it feels devoid of things that were technically included. You heard and saw it was there, but didn't really feel it that well. I probably put that more on the director, but in a lot of ways TDKR suffered from the same problem.

Ok, you put it in a way that I can understand from that opposing viewpoint. The majority of posters who are saying that aren't really acknowledging that it is, in fact, in there, it just may not have been as appealing or enthralling to them as it may have been to others. They simply seem to be saying it's missing altogether and that's what I completely disagree with.

 

[Visualiza]

I think Snyder would do a JL film just fine, similar to Avengers, these films don't require much plot or depth

Agree on plot, not on depth. If anything I think group ensemble films need a broader, stronger character depth than traditional stories with a central protagonist. I think if one member of the team were to overshadow the rest severely, it would undermine the film, which brings me to my next point...

they just need to be one big fun climax of a movie. Snyder could do that very well.

I wholeheartedly agree. I still think that Dawn of the Dead is Snyder's strongest film by far, and it had exponentially more to do with the characters than the zombies, spectacle, or scenario. Damn near all of them were given their just dues, and there were many facets of each of them shown off throughout the film. Most were cliche archetypes, but said archetypes were given plenty to work with and were explored with enough depth to care about them. It could have very easily been a film about people running, ducking, and dodging zombies for two hours, but Snyder decided to forego that in lieu of character interactions, and that was the highlight of the film for me. I'd echo a similar sentiment for Avengers.

Snyder is far from my favorite film maker, but I do believe that he could excel with a JL film.

 

[MadVillainy]

Oh i forgot to mention another fanboy complaint:

Spoiler

I hated that Lois figured out that Clark and Superman were the same in this movie. Now theyre relationship which I really like how it used be written (or currently idk whats up with Superman outside of the DCnU other than he boinked WW) where Lois seems to be in love with Supes but not Clark will be missing

 

[Lencho01]

God, that's sad.

Yeah, these are the finished effects. Ignore the music...

[YT]W_Zz99iHYTA[/YT]

 

[KalMart]

Ok, you put it in a way that I can understand from that opposing viewpoint. The majority of posters who are saying that aren't really acknowledging that it is, in fact, in there, it just may not have been as appealing or enthralling to them as it may have been to others. They simply seem to be saying it's missing altogether and that's what I completely disagree with.

Yeah, and frankly....my misgivings over it aren't from dismissing the idea of having emotional themes et al, it's from wanting to feel and experience it more from a movie that I felt had the potential and ingredients for it. A lot of times that's more disappointing to me than a movie that just didn't have it at all in its content. It's kinda' the difference between finding someone blank and unemotional (which you pretty much dismiss), and someone who you find strangely aloof and would like more clarity on....if that makes any sense.

That's why my critique on the film is more about under-delivering, rather than being devoid of content.

 

[EliteF50]

Yeah, these are the finished effects. Ignore the music...

[YT]W_Zz99iHYTA[/YT]

Never watched the show, but from seeing clips, I have no idea how it built the fanbase it did.

 

[Lencho01]

Never watched the show, but from seeing clips, I have no idea how it built the fanbase it did.

Because it's Superman-related and was pretty entertaining overall. Kinda like MOS.

 

[Autonet]

It's not so much something not being addressed, but just not being very involving or immersive when it was addressed. It was kinda' like reading Cliffs notes rather than really experiencing a novel. That's why for many it feels devoid of things that were technically included. You heard and saw it was there, but didn't really feel it that well. I probably put that more on the director, but in a lot of ways TDKR suffered from the same problem.

I agree. I wanted a Graphic Novel but mostly got a Picture Book (all the plot points were there but it just wasn't "there" for me). Good not great.

 

[dru-zod2501]

I still can't stop thinking about this movie. It was great!!! Without being perfect, there was still so much more that they got right than they didn't. Let me start with Cavill is MY Superman. He nailed everything better than anyone since Chris Reeve (or maybe anyone including Reeve, it was pretty damn close). Amy Adams was a highly enjoyable Lois, for what we got of her. There's still loads of work to be done to establish her journalistic credentials on screen instead of by mouth, but for me the selling point was that she wasn't the sarcastic, sharp-tongued, aggressive Lois that so many people seem to like except me. She was tough enough to hang with the big boys & big aliens without being off-putting.

Though I miss the gravitas Terrence Stamp brought to the role, and his accent, Shannon's Zod added layers of depth I don't remember ever seeing in any other version. He's always been portrayed as this one-dimensional power hungry egomaniac but this movie, even at the end after all the horrible things he did, I still empathized with him when he realized he'd lost everything. He was an adequate counterpoint to Jor-El, easily my favorite character in life, death and beyond.

Predictably, the weakest link in the cast was the DP Crew, most disappointingly Laurence Fishburne's "generic editor", I can't even call him Perry White yet. But, I'm sure more screen time would go a long way to fixing this.

People are arguing that this movie felt choppy sometimes, I say that its main goal was to maintain forward momentum at all costs. TPTB were scared to death of having another boring Superman so they overcompensated to the extreme. This movie floored the gas and never let up till the credits there were tons of things that flashed too quickly and were gone and we were just supposed. For example I really needed some kind of explanation why a 20,000 year old ship just happened to have the Supersuit in cold storage ready and waiting? I would say that should come in a sequel, but what does it matter now that the "Fortress" ship is destroyed? Kal's ships have been destroyed, Zod's ships have been wrecked or zoned, is there anything left to tie Kal to Krypton now? And perhaps most egregiously, the creation of "Clark Kent" is completely skipped over WHYYYY???? If there was one thing I would've traded some action for, it's this. With Lois' presence in his story, I totally expected her to have a hand in crafting it, not unlike Smallville's Lois. They already said screw the secret they know each other, why not go all the way with it?

Let's get to it now... you know the end... either you were with it or you weren't. I didn't have that big a problem with it, just because A) it's not unprecedented, there are in-continuity examples to support it, and B) this is a new universe with new rules, and if we're trying to imbue some semblance of realism into it, then it stands to reason that even the best heroes can't always find that one better solution 100% of the time C'mon we've seen it in other CBMs with less reaction! The one thing saves it though, is Kal's reaction after the fact it horrified him to no end, and it will haunt him everyday, much like Zod said about Jor-El. I want to see some of that at least referenced in the sequel.

Overall I give it give it a solid 8.5/10 and I'd be extremely disappointed if we didn't get a sequel. It deserves one, and a sequel will go a long way to persuade doubters that this Superman is worthy of joining the Justice League.

 

[BobbyCorwin88]

Thought I'd just put up my own review for what it's worth!

I saw it at midnight and I want to give this film a 4/5. There were a very few things I had issue with, but the rest of the film largely outweighed any failings that I could have noticed.

I loved the opening! I genuinely loved how Krypton was depicted and how lived in it felt. Amazing to see how alive it felt even though the planet was dying. I compared it to Asgard in Thor, which was basically the opposite. You got no sense of what Asgard was all about when watching that film and it just appeared to be a place where people lived. There was no real sense of history about it, or life for that matter. Krypton had that in stride. I loved the ancient yet futuristic feel of it. It was the perfect setting for Russell Crowe to steal the show. It was awesome to see how far he was willing to go to save the his son and the the legacy of his people. Laying the smack down on Zod wasn't a bad thing either. I just can't get over the look of the place. It was fully realized and probably could have been it's own movie all together.

A strong opening led to a satisfying if not disjointing narrative an Clark's life. I liked seeing how his present journey was influenced by events of his past. I felt like that was a good way to tell his story from his beginnings to his present struggles. Seeing him as a wanderer really reminded me of his inner struggles during Earth One and a little of Birthright as well. I think the only issue I had with that particular part of the film was that he maybe put on the costume a little too quickly. I was expecting Jor-El to teach him a little more and see Clark go through a bit more struggling before actually deciding to put on the suit. I almost want to say it's forgivable however once he starts taking his first flight. That scene was so personally invigorating for me that watching his pure joy as he was taking flight made me forget about any errors I just witnessed.

I remember too a particular edit point that I thought would have worked better elsewhere. The scene where teenage Clark was being bullied and he had to fight back the urge to hit the kid probably would have been better suited when he got beer thrown on him at the bar he was working at. Instead they showed that later and I thought it was kind of a poor editing choice. But that's a minor issue at best.

I don't want to prattle on because I have a tendency to say too much in my reviews, suffice it to say I think what I was most impressed with was the great cast. The familial themes are laid out perfectly through the Kent's and the El's. All of the parent performances are extremely believable, Kevin Costner being chief among them.

Amy Adams was another show stealer for me. Probably the best incarnation of Lois I've ever seen. Very headstrong and independent, but not overbearing or coming off as feministic. She doesn't need rescuing, but can't help but be rescued since she can't help but throw herself in those situations. I thought I would take more issue with her discovering who Clark really is earlier than I expected, but I soon forgave it because I think it was a realistic way to show how much of a good reporter she is. Honestly, if Lois is as good as she says she is, how would she not discover who he is? That's something that always kind of made me question the logic in the original stories. I'm glad she's the only one outside his family circle who knows his identity, and I think it will make for an interesting relationship dynamic down the road. I don't see her as the type who would settle down with him just because he's Superman. They've got a bumpy road ahead and I can't wait.

I just want to mention Henry Cavill for a second. I haven't read many other fan reviews here, but I think his portrayal was very spot on. He captured a side of Clark that I really identified with, which I suppose was the goal of the filmmakers to begin with. He really connected with the viewer in his emotional struggles throughout the film in trying to find himself, something I think we all can relate to at least once in our lives. His Superman was exactly as it should have been. I thought it was very cool that as soon as he put on the suit, he became who he was born to be. He wasn't stuttering around not having the right thing to say, he became Superman when he put on that suit and it was great. Couldn't have picked a better actor.

I'll stop here, but I will say that visually I was blown away. Seeing him fly and fight was so amazing I couldn't believe it. The physics of it all were incredible and the end fight was something straight out of my 13 year old imagination. If nothing else, this is visual eye candy at its absolute best.

Thanks Man of Steel! I'm seeing you again real soon.

 

[Princess Denise]

I loved the opening! I genuinely loved how Krypton was depicted and how lived in it felt. Amazing to see how alive it felt even though the planet was dying. I compared it to Asgard in Thor, which was basically the opposite. You got no sense of what Asgard was all about when watching that film and it just appeared to be a place where people lived. There was no real sense of history about it, or life for that matter. Krypton had that in stride. I loved the ancient yet futuristic feel of it. It was the perfect setting for Russell Crowe to steal the show. It was awesome to see how far he was willing to go to save the his son and the the legacy of his people. Laying the smack down on Zod wasn't a bad thing either. I just can't get over the look of the place. It was fully realized and probably could have been it's own movie all together

First of all I am glad you enjoyed MOS! I thought it was overall phenomenal t:. But didn't you think that the Krypton scenes were rushed and badly edited? I know what you are saying that you loved the feel of Krypton so did I. The sets and costumes looked great. The actors were all good and I loved the strong science fiction aspects of it. It seems the scenes they actually filmed originally probably made for a great Krypton sequence like all the parts were there and it was executed perfectly. But it just felt so much like it was badly chopped on the editing room floor because the length of the movie had to be shortened. It just seemed way too rushed and awkward. Did you get this feeling?

 

[Robin91939]

I need to let this film hit me still.

I compare it in almost every respect to Batman Begins.

When I walked out of Batman Begins, I knew that I had just witnessed the Batman film I had always seen in my mind. It was the closest I'd seen to the comics. But it was so drastically different from anything on film that I had seen before -- I walked out with a subdued reaction -- not the outright jubilance I had walking out of The Dark Knight.

That's how Man Of Steel is for me. It was so much different from any the previous Superman movies. But for me, it was the Superman I grew up reading. It was my Superman.

This was big. This was science-fiction. This was epic. This didn't shun the weirdest elements of its cannon. It embraced them. It was unlike any other Superman story I had seen on film... but it was undeniably Superman.

It also is much like Batman Begins where even though the film I had just seen was so great, the last seen makes me more excited to see the next step more than what I had just seen. It's like Batman Begins and Man Of Steel set the stage to create that definitive film for the respective character in the sequel.

So as I know that I loved this film. I need more time for it to hit me. I need to see it again. I need to divorce myself even more from the previous films going in -- and catch it all.

But my initial reaction was, "Wow." And as the hours go by, it becomes a bigger and bigger "WOW."

-R