TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 7

[Mjölnir]

yeah never look at rt

rt has it at 6.3/10

while audience have it at 4.2/5

I'd say both are relevant (as far as other people's opinions go), although the relative weight between them depend on the individual. It's not like there are critics and then there's the rest of the population. I don't agree with the critics all the time but I certainly don't always agree with the general audience's opinions either.

 

[mace1]

I'd say both are relevant (as far as other people's opinions go), although the relative weight between them depend on the individual. It's not like there are critics and then there's the rest of the population. I don't agree with the critics all the time but I certainly don't always agree with the general audience's opinions either.

Good point.

Rotten tomatoes critics vs fans

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/rotten-tomatoes-critics-vs-fans.274607/

 

[The Sage]

Glad that those who liked the film admit Goyer was a problem. And while the film wasn't what I'd hoped, I can definitely see why some love it. I hope the film does well, but I don't want Snyder and Goyer around on the next one.

Snyder can stay. Goyer either needs to get replaced or have a co-writer with him.

I just don't think there will be too many real Superman fans leaving Multiplexing around the world fully satisfied after watching MOS. It was good, but man it could have been so much more, I just think Zack tried too hard to create an action packed movie, and forgot about other things while doing it. I would want a new director for any sequel.

7/10

I'm always amazed when people say "real Superman fans" or any type "real" fan in general. "Real Batman fans wouldn't like what Nolan did here!!!" "A real Iron Man fan wouldn't like what they did in Iron Man 3!" "A real X-Men/Spider-Man fan wouldn't like the changes and the audacity of the directors that they did this!"

I've seen some real Superman fans who liked or loved the film, and I've seen some real Superman fans who didn't like or cared for it. That's always going to be the case with re-interpretations in general. Everyone has their preferences.

 

[Max Newlander]

Snyder can stay. Goyer either needs to get replaced or have a co-writer with him.



I'm always amazed when people say "real Superman fans" or any type "real" fan in general. "Real Batman fans wouldn't like what Nolan did here!!!" "A real Iron Man fan wouldn't like what they did in Iron Man 3!" "A real X-Men/Spider-Man fan wouldn't like the changes and the audacity of the directors that they did this!"

I've seen some real Superman fans who liked or loved the film, and I've seen some real Superman fans who didn't like or cared for it. That's always going to be the case with re-interpretations in general. Everyone has their preferences.

You should stop being amazed then, cos it seems to happen a lot considering how your post developed. So seems to be a valid point.

What I really meant was 'Superman' fans. This movie was CGI crazy and poorly written, and the execution was average at best (unless you want to watch 60mins of continuous CGI action, if that's the case this is awesome).. In comparison to many movies (comicbook) I will admit its a very good movie. However when you consider, the material, the people involved, and the money spent it really wasn't good enough. This isn't about criticising the boldness or ambition of the director, it's about criticising the product he produced on merit.

 

[Fanticon]

Saw it last night IMAX 3D. Overall opinion is that the film was slightly above average if I'm honest. I really wanted to love the film, my expectations were high, even though having read reviews over the previous few days I was preparing myself for some of the criticism of the movie. However I did go into the screening with a completely open mind.

What I liked. The scenes of Clark as a child getting to grips with his gifts. His interactions with Ma and Pa. My partner was crying during Jonathon's death scene, and I also found that really emotive. I thought Jor El was portrait well and Krypton was extremely well imagined, and came across well in 3D. Henry was fantastic in Superman mode. I also appreciated that we finally saw Superman being "super" on screen, and boy was he super (fast,strong,effect,etc....) I also think ALL the cast did a really strong job.

What I didn't like. Lack of a real Superman score (I do appreciate Han's music was subtle, modern and probably appropriate) but I wanted more, I wanted hairs on the back of my neck moments thanks to the music. I didn't get that. The pacing was completely wrong, the introduction of real world or Earth was poor. Can't believe I'm saying this but wanted more Earth origins, more smallville. There was TOO much action and it was confusing (ala Tranformers) Too loud (ala Tranformers), too many crashes through buildings (ala Transformers) There wasn't enough 'saving the day' moments for me, and I didn't like the introduction of Superman to the world (loved Donner's intro). The Kryptonian ships looked terrible as well. Too much 'alien' things going on throughout the movie (and I appreciate the whole concept of Superman is about an alien). I would have liked a wee Superman montage as well. (however you have to move with the times I suppose.) Dialogue as also really clunky, poorly written IMO.

Also, I can't see a Justice League working with this version of Superman. I think Marvel did an amazing job making The Avengers work, but I can't (for the moment see how Warner/DC can make JL work) Just for the record I'm no Marvel Fanboy.

I just don't think there will be too many real Superman fans leaving Multiplexing around the world fully satisfied after watching MOS. It was good, but man it could have been so much more, I just think Zack tried too hard to create an action packed movie, and forgot about other things while doing it. I would want a new director for any sequel.

7/10

great review! I think my friend was trying to say the exact same thing as you but couldn't quite articulate it well enough via txt. I haven't seen it but I now have a good grasp on what to expect based on this description. Might have to turn my brain off again like I did for Fast6.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/06/1...tomatoes-editor-shocked-at-low-critic-rating/

One more reason NEVER to believe anything you see or hear on Fox. Why would this guy compromise the integrity of the entire site by saying this? He should remain neutral. Absurd.

 

[The Sage]

You should stop being amazed then, cos it seems to happen a lot considering how your post developed. So seems to be a valid point.

What I really meant was 'Superman' fans. This movie was CGI crazy and poorly written, and the execution was average at best (unless you want to watch 60mins of continuous CGI action, if that's the case this is awesome).. In comparison to many movies (comicbook) I will admit its a very good movie. However when you consider, the material, the people involved, and the money spent it really wasn't good enough. This isn't about criticising the boldness or ambition of the director, it's about criticising the product he produced on merit.

Oh I definitely agree the film wasn't perfect. A lot of which is contributed to the script and that there were something that should've been tightened up.

I probably should clarify what I meant is that in the past when people say "real fans of the character", it almost always comes across as condescending, as if to say if you like this film, you're not a fan of the character. Liking or not liking a film adaptation doesn't make you less of a fan.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Zack's direction had its flaws as well, but he did ok here…

flickchick Ive noticed since the heady days leading up to the Avengers premiere that we seem to have VERY similar tastes in movies and in what makes a good or bad film. Im also a Snyder-hater for the most part. Havent really liked anything he's done since Dawn of the Dead and basically wrote him off completely after Watchmen. But I had a feeling that maybe he would be good fit for this with the right collaborators. You give me hope that I'll at least enjoy MoS. Seeing it in a few hours.

 

[Autonet]

I'm always amazed when people say "real Superman fans" or any type "real" fan in general. "Real Batman fans wouldn't like what Nolan did here!!!" "A real Iron Man fan wouldn't like what they did in Iron Man 3!" "A real X-Men/Spider-Man fan wouldn't like the changes and the audacity of the directors that they did this!"

I just had to post this.

 

[robot]

So u finally watched the movie??? I thought u will only watch it today?

Yup seen it today... on IMAX 3D..

I must say, it's really good... in fact, I am going to say it's the best film this year.. better than Star Trek (which was my fav before this)... has flaws but overall, definitely not half as bad as some of the reviews made it out to be...

What I agree with the critics is (don't get me wrong, the below points don't take away that much from the movies as the critics suggest, but if they had added them which they could easily have, the movie would be a 90% plus on RT):

1. There really is very little humor.. i think they could have added some more without it being overly cheesy... I know some ppl might say it's a serious film and deserves no humor... i just disagree... i like humor in film.. if all i want is doom and gloom, i just live life...

2. The way they cut back and forth was too quick and was quite jarring... a more liner approach might have been better in this case, or keep the memories scenes a bit longer to let them develop further... let them sink in a bit more... you can't snap to the past with an emotional scene, then immediately snap back to a battle... it just interupts the emotions you were just about to develop...

3. Superman needs to smile more.. needs to be more 'animated'... this is not really a critic complain but more of an audience complain i hear more and more... Henry did an excellent job within the script.. if it called for serious, he's serious, if it called for sadness or emotions, he has spades to spare, so we know he's capable of all types of acting.. but the script didn't call for him to smile... (well maybe in one scene, briefly)... he actually has a great smile.. and if there were just a few more of those scenes, and a little light hearted scenes, it'll cut into the whole gloom/doom scenario the movie portrays...

4. The fight scenes are way, way too fast.. i think you guys are responsible for that mishap.. since you complained too much about Zack's slow-mo, i think he's over-compensating with fast-mo... this totally screwed up the magic of his first flight.. you can't see anything... you can't enjoy the scenery, et.c.. and all the fights are literally worse than transformers.. because the main complain about tansformers is the fights are too fast to see or register, MOS does it faster.. I can see a few scenes made this way to show how fast these beings are, but then need to do some slower scenes so we can drink it all in...

So, final thoughts.. it's a great movie.. best of the year... but could have been a classic with just minor twitches...

I blame it all on Goyer... cause he wrote the script... goyer is all 'dark, way too serious, and zero lightness'.. and I don't think he even knows what humor is...

 

[Joeyjojo72]

uh, didnt Goyer write the script?

 

[robot]

uh, didnt Goyer write the script?

Typo.. fixed.. good catch...

 

[I'm Old Greg]

Jonathan Nolan can write a better Sequel.

 

[Sun_Down]

7.5/10

Bottom line: The strong performances of Cavill and Adams buoyed on otherwise just OK movie.

What I liked: It was a fresh take on the character while still respecting the source material. The non-linear storytelling was a nice changeup. Cavill was fantastic, as was Adams. They had great on-screen chemistry. Probably my favorite Clark/Lois tandem on screen. Cavill really nailed that sweet, confident charm that makes Superman so great. I thought Shannon did the best he could with a pretty thinly scripted character. It was really never cheesey in terms of humor or one-liners. Supes looked amazing while flying around and fighting. I really liked the last couple minutes.

What I didn't like: The story could have been tighter, and the final act dragged on a bit. There weren't any real surprises. My biggest complaint was the excessive smashing. It was just overkill, and undermined the impact of all the destruction. But I do have to commend Snyder on his relative restraint up until the final act.

I also really hope DC/WB get their stuff together and get Cavill in a WF/JL/other team up film. He could definitely anchor such film, and he'd be a perfect counterweight to the new Batman and/or Hal Jordan.

 

[Eggyman]

Just got back. Mainly positive. A hollow core surrounded by brilliance. I liked the story but was unfortunately desensitized to the action after a while. It was good but sometimes less is more for dramatic purposes. Overall I had a good time so I'm naturally more forgiving of its shortcomings. Could have easily had ten minutes less of buildings falling (you'd still have plenty) and donate it to earlier in the film and allow it to breathe. I'll give an 8/10 but reserve the right to change it to a 7.5 once the buzz has worn off.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

7.5/10

Bottom line: The strong performances of Cavill and Adams buoyed on otherwise just OK movie.

What I liked: It was a fresh take on the character while still respecting the source material. The non-linear storytelling was a nice changeup. Cavill was fantastic, as was Adams. They had great on-screen chemistry. Probably my favorite Clark/Lois tandem on screen. Cavill really nailed that sweet, confident charm that makes Superman so great. I thought Shannon did the best he could with a pretty thinly scripted character. It was really never cheesey in terms of humor or one-liners. Supes looked amazing while flying around and fighting. I really liked the last couple minutes.

What I didn't like: The story could have been tighter, and the final act dragged on a bit. There weren't any real surprises. My biggest complaint was the excessive smashing. It was just overkill, and undermined the impact of all the destruction. But I do have to commend Snyder on his relative restraint up until the final act.

I also really hope DC/WB get their stuff together and get Cavill in a WF/JL/other team up film. He could definitely anchor such film, and he'd be a perfect counterweight to the new Batman and/or Hal Jordan.

I think that MOS chose to focus more on Clark's identity to his emotional growth into Superman, to the detriment of the movie. That being said, it has a great villain, mostly good action, great visuals, an OK plot, and middling character development, with some very good moments.

I feel the "flaws" in this movie can be "fixed" in the sequel. It's just not ambitious enough to be the "perfect" Superman origin, but it's more heavily plotted than many superhero flicks, IMHO.

 

[writer0327]

When I saw Batman Begins, I didn't immediately start comparing it to the Tim Burton Batman universe. I like Batman Begins for what it was and immediately wanted to see what more they could do with that version.

When I saw Abrams' Star Trek, I wasn't thinking about the previous Star Trek films, and how they might be better or worse than Abrams' version. I was excited to see what more could be done with this new direction.

Same with the Daniel Craig James Bonds.

Fans are spending a lot of time defending or criticizing the film. Sure you get that with every movie, including the comparisons, but the majority of people aren't moving on. That's how you know the movie is severely flawed. Man of Steel didn't make me forget about the other Superman films. It didn't make me excited for the future. It made me think about all the things it could have done better.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ I think MOS is a better movie than Star Trek 09, IMHO, and I like it more than Begins

 

[writer0327]

^ I think MOS is a better movie than Star Trek 09, IMHO, and I like it more than Begins

And my point isn't whether or not MOS is better than those movies, or if you liked them as much as I liked them, or if it had the same affect on you as it had on me....that's not the point.

Its the affect those movies had on the rest of the films in that franchise of films. Maybe MOS made you drop any comparisons to the Donnerverse films or Returns, but its obviously not a universal feeling, and that's the issue. More people are comparing and contrasting rather than enjoying and looking forward to the future.

 

[blumatic]

And my point isn't whether or not MOS is better than those movies, or if you liked them as much as I liked them, or if it had the same affect on you as it had on me....that's not the point.

Its the affect those movies had on the rest of the films in that franchise of films. Maybe MOS made you drop any comparisons to the Donnerverse films or Returns, but its obviously not a universal feeling, and that's the issue. More people are comparing and contrasting rather than enjoying and looking forward to the future.

That's the problem. I think what MOS did was expand on a part of Superman that was never really addressed. And MOS is a logical way to introduce Superman to the world. I just think the people who dislike this film (aside from technical aspects that I find no issues with) are missing out on a good story and film. I truly believe that MOS2 will compliment MOS 1 and give all of us a more complete Superman.

I find this Superman incomplete. But in a good way. He has not peaked. His story is not finished. I sort of wish this movie was presented as a pure part 1 of a group of movies. Guys don't miss the boat. MOS set a great foundation.

 

[blumatic]

And my point isn't whether or not MOS is better than those movies, or if you liked them as much as I liked them, or if it had the same affect on you as it had on me....that's not the point.

Its the affect those movies had on the rest of the films in that franchise of films. Maybe MOS made you drop any comparisons to the Donnerverse films or Returns, but its obviously not a universal feeling, and that's the issue. More people are comparing and contrasting rather than enjoying and looking forward to the future.

U make a good point but I think Superman is a character that people feel they have an ownership in. Its like politics in this country. I don't know if there is a perfect Superman. The mixed reaction has opened my eyes to that. Most films, cartoons, video games and cartoons have gotten Batman for the most part right. There may be variations but no version diverges from the other.

But Superman seems to be a problem. I think it this is reflected in the development he'll Superman films are always in. They can't get a one size fits all version of him.

 

[king666]

I understand most of the criticism towards MOS, but I feel like some critics are just copying, cutting and pasting other critics' opinions. Just a thought.