To Believe or Not To Believe? (SHOW RESPECT, OR RISK A BAN) - Part 2

[Isildur´s Heir]

Let start by, say whatever you want to me, i'm a big advocate of tough love (when it makes sense), so, i would be really hypocritical of me to say i couldn't handle it.
I'll do the same to you, unless you ask me not to.
So, don't force yourself in not saying something due to fear of offending me.

You believe in a God that does nothing and allows anything, but the biblical God leaves a lot to be desired? Okay your entitled to your opinions.

Once again you fall into human pettiness of wanting others to suffer because you see their actions as wrong.
I'm not saying this to defend murders or rapists, that's not my point; all i'm saying is that human life is MUCH MUCH MUCH than it's actions.
You are focusing solely on what he/she did and putting aside that he/she is a person first and a murderer second.

You made a point in point in another one of your posts that was odd. Something about a really vile man who had done awful things being brought to God. God goes up to the vile man crying and asking the vile man to forgive HIM. That statement alone proves what's wrong with your idea of God.

Do you know and understand what love is?

God created the vile man and put him on this Earth.
Maybe it wasn't the right time for the vile man to be born, maybe he was born in the wrong place, maybe God should have help him overcome his problems, maybe God should have been present and give him a helping hand, maybe he didn't had the strength of mind to endure his problems, maybe....

Do you know and understand what love is?
In your mind, God is the creator but has no responsibilities. He basically creates us, throw us to Earth and expects us to live accordingly to his standards by osmosis.

For the 3rd time...do you know and understand what love is?

Like i said before, evil is not a natural thing, evil is a reaction to an external stimuli.
So, in your mind, God has no responsibilities in our fate, which is something we can not control.


That alone kills the idea of omniscience.
God know the past, present and future; knows what will happen to every person, know their fate, know if they will fall or not...and even so....punishes????!!!!!!??????!!!!!!!!
WTF???

The God I know didn't create a bunch of rules just to make us all drones. The things he asks aren't unreasonable and have sound logic behind them.

God - rules - asks...those don't work in tandem.
God doesn't ask nothing from you and doesn't creates rules of any kind.
You don't need to believe in God, God believes in you.

God seeing fit to bless people that are faith to him is a form of evil control and is dumb. Okay that's cool. By the way, I didn't bring up the Cannes film festival thing to brag or act superior. I only brought it up to use as an example of what I believed to be God's favor in my life. But sure I am a crappy filmmaker if that makes you feel better. Though I don't know how a crappy filmmaker could get an internship with a Hollywood film company, but whatever. Your logic is flawless there.

It's ironic that you read my post, quoted it, and understood nothing.
I never said you are a crappy filmmaker, i said exactly the opposite, that because you don't suck, that's the reason why you got a trip to Cannes and the internship, not because you believe in God.
God didn't gave you nothing, because if he did, he had to give to everyone else.

But what is God?
God is but a word, a name...the power of a name.
When one say "God, help me", he is basically asking himself for strength, not for a deity.
It's the same as when, during sex, someone moans "Oh God"; they are not thanking God for the pleasure, but rather giving a name to the pleasure that is "heavenly".

So, in that regard, yes...you did believed in God...because you believed in yourself.

And LOL at the last part. You know absolutely nothing. I don't serve God because I fear hell, I serve God because I genuinely love him and gets been good to me.

Good for you, but you do know that, in the middle-ages, the fear of hell was a big method used by the church.
That's how propaganda and indoctrination works...

Like i said, there are good things about religion, not everything is bad, there are good teaching and good philosophies.
And i'm sure you genuinely love him, but that came after indoctrinated, either by your parents or society, which in turn were indoctrinated by someone else and so on and so forth.
It's a vicious cycle...

The problem is not believing in the bible, the problem is not understanding you don't need it, you have inside all that you need, it's "imprinted" in your soul.

It's quite ironic that the bible say that we were created in God's imagine, but it seem that many people don't really understand what that actually means.

A question that no one has made me yet is, "if you say that the bible is propaganda and control, how can you say there are good things about it?"

That statement is also stupid coming from who states that they believe in the after life. You keep saying Christianity is weird flawed. I would respond further to this last point but it would be really mean so I won't.

Please do it, now i'm curious.

The God you mentioned should just accept a murder, rapist who doesn't repent or acknowledge the errors of his ways. In fact, your weird view of God should be begging the murder to forgive him. He should just be allowed into heaven just because love. Never mind the pain and misery that person brought on others right? That's why I find your reasoning as flawed as you think the Christian God is.

I never said such a thing, what i said was that God doesn't judge, no one asked me what happens to "evildoers.
But, once again, you fall into human pettiness of wanting someone to pay.

Don't forget the post i wrote about several insights from a NDE:

> Others judge us by our actions; God judges us by our motivations.

Murder, rape, stealing.....those are ACTIONS not MOTIVATIONS.

Christianity like any religion or belief is a choice. Nobody can really force you to believe anything. Nobodies forcing me to belief in God or just scare tactics or using cheap tricks to control me.

It's not a direct force, no one will point a gun at you and make you believe.
It's society indoctrination.
Think about this, society was made on top of Christianity.
Haven....Hell....God...bible...Jesus....all of that is common knowledge, is part of all our lives.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

If the bible stated Jesus came back as a leprechaun, Shadow would believe it was true. This is not an insult, but there is certainly some blind faith for those involved in religion. If there is science or reasoning that contradicts the validity of certain passages, many religious people would rather make excuses or say "Oh well it wasn't meant literal in this case..." Picking and choosing makes it quite easy to continue for them.

You can't convince such a person even in terms of solid logic. They want what they read in the bible to be true, and they want their view of a God to be real to them.

 

[Human Torch]

If the bible stated Jesus came back as a leprechaun, Shadow would believe it was true. This is not an insult, but there is certainly some blind faith for those involved in religion. If there is science or reasoning that contradicts the validity of certain passages, many religious people would rather make excuses or say "Oh well it wasn't meant literal in this case..." Picking and choosing makes it quite easy to continue for them.

You can't convince such a person even in terms of solid logic. They want what they read in the bible to be true, and they want their view of a God to be real to them.

No offence,but this is utter nonsense. I've stated repeatedly now, how Christianity isn't a blind faith. And even refuted some of the ridiculous supposed "contradictions" you posted. You are going to need some stronger arguments than suggesting that millions of people are just mindless robots.

The faith wouldn't have survived if it could be as easily quelled as you suggest. But the fact is there is sound reasoning for every criticism that you easily dismiss. You and others, simply don't know how to read the Bible for all it's worth.

Granted there are believers that are content in their faith and don't seek to defend it. Which is a shame,since Jesus called us to make Disciples. We are supposed to have a working understanding of the faith so that we can reason with skeptics. But many don't want to put in the time to study the deep questions or take on the lion in his den so to speak. And who can really blame them? But it's really not as frightening a prospect if you actually know what you believe and why you believe it. (as all of us should)

 

[Human Torch]

But good spirited folks who just don't believe in the Christian God are damned, right? I just don't see why only the christian way is the right way. It seems to me just because you are christian yourself, it makes it the only way. This is my main beef with some christian folks. It isn't feeling ill towards gays or being against abortion or taking the bible as 100% truth, it's aacting towards others like youre the ony ones chosen to carry the keys to grace. There way or the highway. The feeling of only being the one true voice for a God or eternal bliss. Yeah, you show love for everybody but deep in your heart you know this person who isn't in the same belief path as you is damned. And that sounds like feeling superior one way or the other, which would be arrogance imo.

I understand what you're trying to say,Sam. Paul warned against arrogance in Romans as we are the "chosen" of God. But it's not really a case of other people being "damned". As I said before,The reason for Christ's Atonement is to reconcile Man with the Father and restore the fellowship broken by Man's sin. If you do not accept Christ's Atonement, you are still stained by sin and stand apart from God. He cannot except you into His presence unless the stain of sin is removed be the blood of Jesus.

 

[Human Torch]

Spoiler

Let start by, say whatever you want to me, i'm a big advocate of tough love (when it makes sense), so, i would be really hypocritical of me to say i couldn't handle it.
I'll do the same to you, unless you ask me not to.
So, don't force yourself in not saying something due to fear of offending me.


Once again you fall into human pettiness of wanting others to suffer because you see their actions as wrong.
I'm not saying this to defend murders or rapists, that's not my point; all i'm saying is that human life is MUCH MUCH MUCH than it's actions.
You are focusing solely on what he/she did and putting aside that he/she is a person first and a murderer second.



Do you know and understand what love is?

God created the vile man and put him on this Earth.
Maybe it wasn't the right time for the vile man to be born, maybe he was born in the wrong place, maybe God should have help him overcome his problems, maybe God should have been present and give him a helping hand, maybe he didn't had the strength of mind to endure his problems, maybe....

Do you know and understand what love is?
In your mind, God is the creator but has no responsibilities. He basically creates us, throw us to Earth and expects us to live accordingly to his standards by osmosis.

For the 3rd time...do you know and understand what love is?

Like i said before, evil is not a natural thing, evil is a reaction to an external stimuli.
So, in your mind, God has no responsibilities in our fate, which is something we can not control.


That alone kills the idea of omniscience.
God know the past, present and future; knows what will happen to every person, know their fate, know if they will fall or not...and even so....punishes????!!!!!!??????!!!!!!!!
WTF???




God - rules - asks...those don't work in tandem.
God doesn't ask nothing from you and doesn't creates rules of any kind.
You don't need to believe in God, God believes in you.



It's ironic that you read my post, quoted it, and understood nothing.
I never said you are a crappy filmmaker, i said exactly the opposite, that because you don't suck, that's the reason why you got a trip to Cannes and the internship, not because you believe in God.
God didn't gave you nothing, because if he did, he had to give to everyone else.

But what is God?
God is but a word, a name...the power of a name.
When one say "God, help me", he is basically asking himself for strength, not for a deity.
It's the same as when, during sex, someone moans "Oh God"; they are not thanking God for the pleasure, but rather giving a name to the pleasure that is "heavenly".

So, in that regard, yes...you did believed in God...because you believed in yourself.



Good for you, but you do know that, in the middle-ages, the fear of hell was a big method used by the church.
That's how propaganda and indoctrination works...

Like i said, there are good things about religion, not everything is bad, there are good teaching and good philosophies.
And i'm sure you genuinely love him, but that came after indoctrinated, either by your parents or society, which in turn were indoctrinated by someone else and so on and so forth.
It's a vicious cycle...

The problem is not believing in the bible, the problem is not understanding you don't need it, you have inside all that you need, it's "imprinted" in your soul.

It's quite ironic that the bible say that we were created in God's imagine, but it seem that many people don't really understand what that actually means.

A question that no one has made me yet is, "if you say that the bible is propaganda and control, how can you say there are good things about it?"


Please do it, now i'm curious.


I never said such a thing, what i said was that God doesn't judge, no one asked me what happens to "evildoers.
But, once again, you fall into human pettiness of wanting someone to pay.

Don't forget the post i wrote about several insights from a NDE:

> Others judge us by our actions; God judges us by our motivations.

Murder, rape, stealing.....those are ACTIONS not MOTIVATIONS.


It's not a direct force, no one will point a gun at you and make you believe.
It's society indoctrination.
Think about this, society was made on top of Christianity.
Haven....Hell....God...bible...Jesus....all of that is common knowledge, is part of all our lives

.

I really don't know what to make of your arguments here. They are fairly long and unwieldy for me to attempt any kind of reply. But it seems to me you think yourself "wiser" than God?

 

[Black Narcissus]

I understand what you're trying to say,Sam. Paul warned against arrogance in Romans as we are the "chosen" of God. But it's not really a case of other people being "damned". As I said before,The reason for Christ's Atonement is to reconcile Man with the Father and restore the fellowship broken by Man's sin. If you do not accept Christ's Atonement, you are still stained by sin and stand apart from God. He cannot except you into His presence unless the stain of sin is removed be the blood of Jesus.

Again, your way or the highway.

To put it more blunt.

It doesn't matter if one is a good man and gives back, or is a caring man to others by following a different path to that same ''grace'', but if I ain't christian there lies the problem.

Yeah, the Jesus I like to think about ( if he was real) ...he isn't arrogant or narrow minded.

 

[Human Torch]

Again, your way or the highway.

To put it more blunt.

It doesn't matter if one is a good man and gives back, or is a caring man to others by following a different path to that same ''grace'', but if I ain't christian there lies the problem.

Yeah, the Jesus I like to think about ( if he was real) ...he isn't arrogant or narrow minded.

There is only one path to salvation. I know some people like to think "all roads lead home." Or basically it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you're a "good" guy. But the fact is all of us has fallen short of being "good" in God's eyes. The believer and non-believer alike. The difference in excepting the cleansing Blood of Jesus,that's the only thing that makes us right in God's eyes.

And I think I've said this before as well, but it's never been a case of "Well, you've committed sin X, so you have to burn in Hell for all eternity". God is a just God. He's not going to punish a guy who cheated on his taxes and kicked his dog with the same severity of an Adolph Hitler,who murdered millions and brought misery to many millions more.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I really don't know what to make of your arguments here. They are fairly long and unwieldy for me to attempt any kind of reply. But it seems to me you think yourself "wiser" than God?

That's what I have come to conclusion as well. His argument is just full of weird logic and what not. And we someone addresses something he said, retracts what he says. But really it seems that he believes he is wiser than any God.

 

[Human Torch]

I don't understand the idea of Jesus being "arrogant" either.

If a doctor were to say to you "The only way I can save your life is by removing a tumor" would you consider him being "arrogant"?

 

[Black Narcissus]

There is only one path to salvation. I know some people like to think "all roads lead home." Or basically it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you're a "good" guy. But the fact is all of us has fallen short of being "good" in God's eyes. The believer and non-believer alike. The difference in excepting the cleansing Blood of Jesus,that's the only thing that makes us right in God's eyes.

And I think I've said this before as well, but it's never been a case of "Well, you've committed sin X, so you have to burn in Hell for all eternity". God is a just God. He's not going to punish a guy who cheated on his taxes and kicked his dog with the same severity of an Adolph Hitler,who murdered millions and brought misery to many millions more.

But you believe your path to be the absolute truth. What makes your belief so special? There are other religions who can claim the same.

All religion is the same to me in the end.

Eh, I will just leave it at that.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I don't understand the idea of Jesus being "arrogant" either.

If a doctor were to say to you "The only way I can save your life is by removing a tumor" would you consider him being "arrogant"?

I never said Jesus was arrogant.

I was talking about some of his followers. Thinking and claiming only one belief leads to grace is arrogant to me.

You have one God who you belief in your heart and soul to be the absolute truth. I'm just saying there are millions of folks who belief the same and are told the same answers but just happen to believe in different God. What makes you so special? You can come back at me and say ''Christianity is the only path that truly matters'', and I counter with...Well, their God also said the same thing. Why should I not believe him over your God?

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

But you believe your path to be the absolute truth. What makes your belief so special? There are other religions who can claim the same.

All religion is the same to me in the end.

Eh, I will just leave it at that.

Yes. It is almost invalidating all the other religions which have the same basis of "evidence" for believing. What should make a Christian faith any more of an absolute truth than a Muslim or Buddhist for example? Insanity.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Yes. It is almost invalidating all the other religions which have the same basis of "evidence" for believing. What should make a Christian faith any more of an absolute truth than a Muslim or Buddhist for example? Insanity.

There is no reason, just faith. I totally respect that, but they would get more support and credit from none believers if they admitted to invalidating all the other religions because of their absolute faith in theirs. Catholic folks in general seem to be more relaxed about this whole thing in my experience. t:

 

[moviedoors]

Also if you gonna criticize something at least get your facts straight. Christians revere and obey God out of love.

You can't just make a blanket statement that covers like a billion people.

 

[Apollo]

I agree with Fareed Zakaria on this.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I see Christians saying that it takes a lot of courage to stand up and say they believe in God. It also takes courage to stand up and say that you accept the world without a deity that can give you an afterlife on good behavior. Choosing to be a good person without a reward, because it is the right way to be as a human- That takes courage. Standing before the world and just saying "I am and someday, I will not be."

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I agree with Fareed Zakaria on this.

so do I. i rarely ever find myself agreeing with bill about anything in regards to religion.

 

[Apollo]

This morning my grandfather had an aneurysm and a stroke, and the doctors have said that there is nothing that can be done for him. He cant breathe on his own and he is unresponsive so my father and my aunt are going to have to decide whether to take him off life support. Im pretty sure they will.

Im terrible at praying so could yall say a prayer or two for his soul?

He is in my heart and prayers. My condolences are with you and your family.

 

[Apollo]

I've been generally enjoying A.D. I think the guy that plays Peter has been doing a solid job.

I think they're overplaying Pilate. Seems like they want some drama there. But I doubt that Pilate would be so dense as to keep provoking the populace to rebellion. Heck,the only reason he put Jesus to death (whom he knew to be an innocent) was to prevent rioting.

Another thing that gives me pause is the character of Roman Captain Cornelius. In the bible,his "charitable acts" are what causes God to introduce him to Peter.(so that the Word can be preached,thus saving he and his family) But here,all I've seen him do is abuse,torture and kill. Is this supposed to be the same character?

I thought the Ananias And Sapphira scenes were very good,if somewhat more graphic than I expected.

It is very well done. And I agree, Pilate and the Romans are getting too much screen time. I want to see more of the Disciples.

My cool new Jesus shirt

Wonderful! Where did you get it?

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

And we someone addresses something he said, retracts what he says. But really it seems that he believes he is wiser than any God.

Don't do that, that's intellectually dishonesty, i never retracted anything, i stand by what i said.
You might not understand it, you might not agree with it...but don't say i retracted without backing your claims.

As for being wiser than God.....i can't be wiser than myself, now can i?
Because that's the thing that many people don't understand when the bible states "we are done in God's image".
We are all God...i'm God...you are God...God is part of us and we are part of God.
We have imprinted everything we need to "survive", it's written in our soul; it's our consciousness and etics, our values and moral compass.
It's our ability to think and rationalize.
The idea that God would create us and leave us to search for an external salvation (himself) is inane.
----------------------------------

Now, a few notes just to try to make myself understood:

So, what is God?
> God is everything and everything is God. God is life, God is love, God is existence, God is reality, God is what bind us all together, God is the force that gives you life.....we exist because God exists.
God doesn't punish, God only loves.
Every thought, every action, every decision, every choice...all come from God.
It's impossible not to love God because is impossible to not love yourself, even the ones that say they don't; even the ones that commit suicide are doing it to escape, to save themselves.

So, why do i say that the bible is propaganda but has some good things?
> Because, like i said above, we have imprinted in our soul the truth, we know it just by closing our eyes and meditating.
That truth has a way to pass to reality many times and when least expected, that's why the bible as some good things about it, but the bible is symbolic and metaphorical, not literal in any way.
And before anyone say, but there is plenty of facts in the bible...yes, there is, the best lies are usually found inside the truth.
Take Jesus for example....ever read or watched anything about "Jesus was a Buddhist monk"?
No?
So, read/watch it, think outside the box, look at more than what is written in the bible.

What happens to evildoers after death? (my own belief, i don't claim as a fact)
> Heaven and Hell are states of mind, not literal places. When you feel immense joy and happiness, you are in Heaven; when you feel sad, fear and despair you are in Hell.
That also happens after death.
It's my belief that "the other side" is both very similar to this one and very different.
Yes, it's a contradiction, but easily explainable.
It's very similar because it would make no sense for us to be like this only to find things completely different after death. It would be like someone learning how to drive by riding a child's scooter, just to find that a car is totally different.
It's very different because if it was very similar, there would be no point in coming here.
So, in the end, i believe that is very similar physically and very different in motivations and understandings.
This world is a mirror of the other, minus the evil because there is no reason for it exist, evil is a human reaction to a external stimuli.
So, if you want to call it heaven, be my guest; but it's not the same idea of heaven people usually have.
So, back to the evildoers....
When a person dies, they will be "judged", not by God but by HIMSELF, we judge ourselves.
We are confronted with what we did, with the life we had...an evildoer, at being confronted with the pain he caused, and knowing that there is no reason for it, he will feel sad and ashamed.
It's like when you wrong someone and feel bad about it...now elevate it to 100 because it wasn't a moment or stealing a candy from a baby, but rather a life time and robbing someone's life (for example).
There will be people there to help him overcome it, but it will not be easy, he will need to accept what he did and make peace with it.
Once again, if you want to call it Hell, be my guest, bur it's not the Hell people think about.
Of course that, the more repentant someone is on this side, the better he will be able to cope with it when he arrives to the other side.

There is no ill on the other side, no one that will want to make you pay, that's human pettiness, which is understandable to a point, we are not God and forgiveness is not an easy road.
But it's very problematic when we cling too much on the idea of others being punished when we have absolutely no idea what they went through to arrive to those actions.
God knows their motivations, we don't!

But, once again we know this if you think about it. Like i said, it's imprinted in our soul.
Taking a very "stupid", but very truthful example, take the Ezio trilogy in Assassin's Creed.
Every time he killed someone he would say: Requiescat in pace
Why?
Because no matter how bad the villain was, there is no desire for punishment on the other side.
I feel exactly the same, i always did; no matter how awful a man is, no matter how much i want to see him pay on this side, no matter how i feel that he has no place on this Earth...i don't want any ill for him on the other side, i hope he learns for his mistakes, i hope he can overcome them, i hope he finds the peace that evaded him on this side.
That doesn't mean i forgive him (or do), like i said, forgiveness is not an easy road and i know my physical (realm) limitations; i can hate the man, but i want no ill to his soul.

How do i know all of this?
> First, i don't know, i make no claims of truths or facts, i believe due to research on the thematic.
I have read, at least 4 descriptions of what is on the other side, what happens after we die...all of them are peaceful and good.
I don't take them for granted just because it suits me, i don't do that, the more i believe in something the more i question it's validity.
Even so, this is what i believe in, i believe in love above all else.
The best way to know the other side is to make parallels to this one; the best way to know God is to make parallels to ourselves.

 

[Apollo]

so do I. i rarely ever find myself agreeing with bill about anything in regards to religion.

Yeah I don't either.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Even though Christianity is still heavy in the U.S, it does take a heck of a lot courage to say that your a Christian and believe in God. It takes even more courage to actually live your live according to those beliefs. There are some people who say they are Christian but treat it like it's an embarrassing sceret. This is because some are afraid of "offending" others. If people are okay talking publicly about partying and getting drunk, how high they got, and how many people they slept with , then I have no problems publicly saying I believe in Jesus Christ and the morals of the bible. That takes courage because society says the bible is outdated, wrong, and is just a form of control which keeps people ignorant. It takes courage to stand in faith when people openly mock you, label you, laugh at you, try to insult your intelligence. THAT is true courage. I will say this people who are religious aren't people who lack intelligence or live boring oppressive lives like society thinks we do. And at the end of the day, I'd rather stand for something than fall for anything.

Also, it doesn't really take a whole lot of courage to follow along with what society says. Nobody is gonna look at you weird if you say, " no I don't think you need to wait until marriage to have sex." "No I don't believe in creationism." Most would just say your logical and normal. But say you believe other wise it's a different story.

 

[jerkhero]

Curious, how is the discrimination against atheists in the US nowadays? I remember reading somewhere about a study where people found atheists about as trustworthy as rapists. Is atheism more acceptable today? ShadowBoxer almost makes it sound like the christians are the new atheists when it comes to discrimination.

 

[Greens]

Also, it doesn't really take a whole lot of courage to follow along with what society says. Nobody is gonna look at you weird if you say, " no I don't think you need to wait until marriage to have sex." "No I don't believe in creationism." Most would just say your logical and normal. But say you believe other wise it's a different story.

It almost sounds like we've moved on from antiquated morals and outdated beliefs!

There are tons of atheist teens who are afraid to come out to their Christian parents because they're afraid they'll be vilified. I don't really see that the other way around.

Curious, how is the discrimination against atheists in the US nowadays? I remember reading somewhere about a study where people found atheists about as trustworthy as rapists. Is atheism more acceptable today? ShadowBoxer almost makes it sound like the christians are the new atheists when it comes to discrimination.

Atheists are definitely still discriminated against when it comes to public office and certain other jobs. It's not considered safe to come out as an atheist if you want to be a successful politician.

Atheism is growing as the amount of knowledge we can access increases, but Christianity's still got a strong base in the US. It's gonna take another generation for atheism to become acceptable in all areas and functions of society.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Curious, how is the discrimination against atheists in the US nowadays? I remember reading somewhere about a study where people found atheists about as trustworthy as rapists. Is atheism more acceptable today? ShadowBoxer almost makes it sound like the christians are the new atheists when it comes to discrimination.

Yea. Like I said let anyone who identifies as Christian say anything that goes against what society preaches. Then it's the whole, your intolerant saying and your belief is outdated and your open to mockery. But fall in line with what society what should be acceptable then you get patted on the back and touted as being logical and moving forward. Everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want. But I don't think people should be made a villain or mocked for whatever their beliefs are. Show respect get respect in return simple as that.