to those who watched it, QUESTIONS,REACTIONS, ETC.(Discussion Thread. Heavy Spoilers)

[Heretic]

Note to self: I'm not worth Wesyeeds time

 

[TripXyDE]

I want the total package...but for arguments sake, I still watch the original Superman and am not bothered by the lousy FX.

I believe that comic books are just as valid of a medium as movies, tv or novels. It is very cool to see these comics come to life, but at the heart of it is my desire that comic books become viewed as the incredible art form that it is. Movies like Ghost Rider hurt the credibility of the medium. I want people to see a comic shop and think "I've never been in there, but I loved American Splendor, Ghost World, Sin City, History Of Violence and Batman Begins...maybe I'll go in there and check it out". I do not want people to think "Remember how goofy and fun it was to eat popcorn and watch that silly movie about the gyuy with the flaming head? Can you imagine that the geeks in there actually buy books about him every month?" We have reached a point in time and quality where actual real world credibility is within our grasp. The biggest upside to this will be that creators will benefit with a huge financial windfall if the 98% or so of Americans who dont read comics would start. With each "flash and no substance" movie that is released, the cause is set back. Comics deserve the very best in special effects as well as scripting, acting and directing...and thats because our concepts are better than anything Hollywood could ever create.

great great post dude

there's a GREAT BIG DEAL of potential to make good use of GHOST RIDER's PENANCE STARE as a medium of making the film stand out from other superhero movies....IF ONLY the scriptwriters had a bit MORE CREATIVITY (& that includes the producers since they're the ones dictating things anyway)

just look at the potential, among the popular (& semipopular, whatever) superheroes, (others just beat up & throw their enemies in jail) GR is the only one who MAKES them FEEL the intensity & the pain of their own EVIL

sure, I lowered my expectations for GR. sure, I may have expected it to be campy (& after all the low expectations it still disappointed me). But with THE PENANCE STARE Factor, GR couldve been as good as BATMAN BEGINS

 

[The Kid]

Why use Begins as the validation for your argument, why not Batman 89 or batman returns?

Is it just because it's comfortable to ride the begins bandwagon?

Btw, "can you drive stick?"

 

[Darkest Knight]

Because BEGINS is the new standard for comic book / hero movies.

 

[The Kid]

I thought everyone around here was still up spider-man's butt...

well they will be when sm3's released, that's for sure.

 

[TripXyDE]

Why use Begins as the validation for your argument, why not Batman 89 or batman returns?

Is it just because it's comfortable to ride the begins bandwagon?

Btw, "can you drive stick?"

no, you f#%ing lame-posting jerk, it's coz BATMAN BEGINS is as close to what an Academy Award quality comicbook movie as what a comicbook movie can get so far.

next time, read the entire post before you reply with your immature punchlines

 

[Toby_Temple]

Because BEGINS is the new standard for comic book / hero movies.

Not for me though. As far as I'm concerned its the Spider-Man movies that set the standard and remained the standard for comic book movies.

 

[The Kid]

no, you f#%ing lame-posting jerk, it's coz BATMAN BEGINS is as close to what an Academy Award quality comicbook movie as what a comicbook movie can get so far.

next time, read the entire post before you reply with your immature punchlines

Yeah? Well yo mamma's so fat, National Geographic followed her around for an entire week, thinking she was an elephant. Take that! What? Let's go outside right now and just squash it!

Begins is Acadamy Award quality? Batman TAS, I'd agree with but begins had it's share of problems though of course it was given a huge handicap thanks to batman and robin being so horribly off the mark. I'll dare say if batman and robin was better, begins wouldn't have been so over-praised.

If you asked me, I'd tell you Hulk's the most well made cb movie I've seen besides X2 and of course Superman the movie, the jesus christ of superhero films.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I think Batman '89 is the greatest thing to ever hit the silver screen [/fanboy]

 

[The Kid]

Yeah we're lame

 

[TripXyDE]

Yeah we're lame

if you wanna admit being lame, don't bring along anybody else with you

i was not bashing batman '89. in fact, i loved batman '89

i was bashing ...YOU

 

[mego joe]

I thought it did a great job at being what it was supposed to be. Not everything is going to be 100% accurate, but I felt it had the right tone and feel of the comics and GR himself looked great.

It's not supposed to be high art, it's a movie adaptation of a quirky horror comic.

It was great for what it was supposed to be.

 

[The Kid]

if you wanna admit being lame, don't bring along anybody else with you

i was not bashing batman '89. in fact, i loved batman '89

i was bashing ...YOU

Well stop, because you're not good at it. I've been bashed in much more creative, hurtful, and psychologically damaging ways than lame posting jerk.

 

[TripXyDE]

Well stop, because you're not good at it. I've been bashed in much more creative, hurtful, and psychologically damaging ways than lame posting jerk.

it's not a contest
it's telling you what you are

 

[The Kid]

it's not a contest
it's telling you what you are

And what would I be if I was kneeling and giving you praise for your wisdom?

 

[Infinity9999x]

I just got back from the movie tonight, and I have to say I was fairly dissapointed. It was okay...but that was about it.

My main qualms with the movie were the huge gaping plot holes, and just parts of the script not being written well.

For startes, so Roxy see's Johnny again after a long amount of time, and the last time she saw him he blew her off. So does she display any real anger at him? No...she flirts with him when he rides after her....and she lets him kiss her. I mean, yeah she pushed away, but honestly, knowing that the last thing this guy did was blow you off when you were going to run off with him, and add in the fact that he hasn't talked to her in years, I highly doubt any girl would let the guy kiss her, let alone go out to dinner with him after.

Next was Blaze's overall attitude...it was...okay. I really haven't read much GR comics, so I wasn't as bugged by this as hardcore fans, and I see where Nick was going with the whole "Blaze would want to surround himself with light hearted images and stay away from anything that could appeal to his dark side" thing...but it just wasn't really explained well. If they had made it more apparent that he was going out of his way to surround himself with happy things, instead of just being a goofball who likes happy things, I think it would have came off better.

Roxy...I just don't think they had a good script for her...I mean, not only does she go out with Blaze after they meet up again...she goes to his apartment after he stands her up! And she almost never shows any real anger...I mean she never even yells at the guy!

then the plot holes...like
-Caretaker saying "they can't come on hallowed ground" ...yet Blackheart kills a Priest in a church...and the ending fight scene takes place in a chruch! I guess the old guy was a little off on that one.

-Blackheart easily forces GR back to his human form in Johnny's apartment...yet he can't do this when the fight again?

-Caretaker transformes only to escort GR? I mean...it would have been nice to see him help out a little more then that.

-Apparently GR can transform when it's only half dark out now too? At first Caretaker says he only comes out at night, but then when he's in some shadow in the chruch he can transform....I guess the old guy is wrong on a few things huh?

-The Devil can give GR his powers...but he can't take it back? I mean basically the Devil asks for the powers back, Johnny says no...and the Devil's like "oh crap...now what?" I mean...HE'S THE FRIGGIN LORD OF THE UNDERWORLD. If you can beat him by "just saying no" apparently he's not that tough. The anit-drug programs should be happy though, I can just see it now "just saying no doesn't only work against peer pressure kids...it now also is an effective tool to ward off Satan!"


And my biggest dissapointment with the movie....Blackhearts look...I mean...I was hoping for more then that. When I first heard he didn't fully transform I kept my hopes up...thinking that he might still kind of look like a monster dude....but yeah...his appearance and the last fight in general just wasn't that impressive.

I wanted to like this movie, I really did, but the plot holes, iffy script, and at moments cheesy acting just kept it from what I was hoping for. I was really hoping that it would turn out like a V for Vendetta, Batman Begins, or X2...but it just didn't really cut it for me.

 

[Darkest Knight]

Not for me though. As far as I'm concerned its the Spider-Man movies that set the standard and remained the standard for comic book movies.

That's nice. The rest of the intelligent movie - going group still views B89, S:TM, and now Batman Begins as the creme of the crop of comic book / superhero blockbusters. BEGINS certainly was a better film then both of the Spider-man movies.

 

[The Kid]

true

 

[The Kid]

I just got back from the movie tonight, and I have to say I was fairly dissapointed. It was okay...but that was about it.

My main qualms with the movie were the huge gaping plot holes, and just parts of the script not being written well.

For startes, so Roxy see's Johnny again after a long amount of time, and the last time she saw him he blew her off. So does she display any real anger at him? No...she flirts with him when he rides after her....and she lets him kiss her. I mean, yeah she pushed away, but honestly, knowing that the last thing this guy did was blow you off when you were going to run off with him, and add in the fact that he hasn't talked to her in years, I highly doubt any girl would let the guy kiss her, let alone go out to dinner with him after.

Next was Blaze's overall attitude...it was...okay. I really haven't read much GR comics, so I wasn't as bugged by this as hardcore fans, and I see where Nick was going with the whole "Blaze would want to surround himself with light hearted images and stay away from anything that could appeal to his dark side" thing...but it just wasn't really explained well. If they had made it more apparent that he was going out of his way to surround himself with happy things, instead of just being a goofball who likes happy things, I think it would have came off better.

Roxy...I just don't think they had a good script for her...I mean, not only does she go out with Blaze after they meet up again...she goes to his apartment after he stands her up! And she almost never shows any real anger...I mean she never even yells at the guy!

then the plot holes...like
-Caretaker saying "they can't come on hallowed ground" ...yet Blackheart kills a Priest in a church...and the ending fight scene takes place in a chruch! I guess the old guy was a little off on that one.

-Blackheart easily forces GR back to his human form in Johnny's apartment...yet he can't do this when the fight again?

-Caretaker transformes only to escort GR? I mean...it would have been nice to see him help out a little more then that.

-Apparently GR can transform when it's only half dark out now too? At first Caretaker says he only comes out at night, but then when he's in some shadow in the chruch he can transform....I guess the old guy is wrong on a few things huh?

-The Devil can give GR his powers...but he can't take it back? I mean basically the Devil asks for the powers back, Johnny says no...and the Devil's like "oh crap...now what?" I mean...HE'S THE FRIGGIN LORD OF THE UNDERWORLD. If you can beat him by "just saying no" apparently he's not that tough. The anit-drug programs should be happy though, I can just see it now "just saying no doesn't only work against peer pressure kids...it now also is an effective tool to ward off Satan!"


And my biggest dissapointment with the movie....Blackhearts look...I mean...I was hoping for more then that. When I first heard he didn't fully transform I kept my hopes up...thinking that he might still kind of look like a monster dude....but yeah...his appearance and the last fight in general just wasn't that impressive.

I wanted to like this movie, I really did, but the plot holes, iffy script, and at moments cheesy acting just kept it from what I was hoping for. I was really hoping that it would turn out like a V for Vendetta, Batman Begins, or X2...but it just didn't really cut it for me.

I remember roxanne tells blaze why she forgave him for leaving her... something about her understanding why he'd be distressed over his father's death.

Also I'm pretty sure night is one big shadow, but I haven't been in physics class in years so I don't know.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I remember roxanne tells blaze why she forgave him for leaving her... something about her understanding why he'd be distressed over his father's death.

Also I'm pretty sure night is one big shadow, but I haven't been in physics class in years so I don't know.

Yeah, I got that, but still if a girl blew me off and didn't talk to me again for years, even if I knew she had gone through a huge traumatic event, I still wouldn't let her kiss me 15 minutes after the first time I see her again. I wouldn't show outright anger at her...but I'd be cooler acting towards her too, I wouldn't be really keen to set up a dinner date with her.

I don't know much about physics either...but they said in the movie the Rider only comes out at night, and I associate night with when the sun is not in the sky. During the final fight scene, the sun was definatley up, he was just in a bit of shadow. But not only that, when they said the Rider only came out at night, I assumed they were appealing to the age old implimented fear of the human physche. we associated night with danger, with evil, with the unknown. The Ghost Rider is a creature of Darkness, hence coming out only at night. Having him come out during the day, even in shadow....was just strange for me.

And still, if he can change into the rider in shadow during the day, why wouldn't he change back to Blaze during the night if he's in light?

It just didn't really make sense to me.

Now I don't want to sound like I'm slamming this movie too hard, I didn't hate it, I did like it, about as much as Daredevil...I just thought it should have been much better.

 

[The Kid]

Just use the old "the force did it" excuse us Star Wars nuts use...

 

[Infinity9999x]

Just use the old "the force did it" excuse us Star Wars nuts use...

lol, that could be an explanation

 

[Pilgrim]

With roxanne she says to him when they see each other again that she understands that he was young and that he witnessed a tragedy so she knew that he left because of his father dying. She yells at him after he stands her up at the scene where she is interviewing that goth chick. Then she comes to his apartment and says that she is leaving town and doesn't want to leave with that being the last thing they said to each other. Then he explains that he works for the devil and she gets angry and leaves because she thinks he's lying to her because he doesn't want to be honest or whatever. So she does actually display some anger.

I too think they could of explained the jelly beans more...I mean I understand but most people probably wont get it except for the scene where he says alcohol gives him nightmares.

-Caretaker is talking about the hidden when he says they cant come on hallowed ground....I don't think that applies to blackheart.

-From what I could tell caretaker is already dead which is why he has a grave and that is why he couldn't help. He himself says the last ghost rider was 150 years ago so I think he's just been waiting for the next one to come along so that the next gr could protect the contract so at the end he sort of passes on the responisibility to johnny and then vanishes when he rides off so I would assume he is going to heaven/hell.

-At the end johnny has more control over the ghost rider whish is why he can transform at will when he fights blackheart inthe apartment and at the end caretaker explains that he will be able to use his powers in the shadows...make sense enough that he has enough control to use his abilities in the dark.

-Satan can't use his powers on earth he can only influence atleast thats the way I see it. He tells him he can have his soul back...he doesn't expect a normal person to say ''no you can have my soul thanks very much''...like when caretaker says that he is unpredictable because he sold his soul for the right reason...it was kind of poorly explained though.

You shouldn't have expected X-2 or batman begins this wasn't meant to be an epic superhero film its a b-movie monster/western flick thats why the lines are so cheesy like "He may have my soul...bu he doesn't have my spirit!"...thats intentional.

Sorry for the long post....hope that explains a bit.

 

[Infinity9999x]

With roxanne she says to him when they see each other again that she understands that he was young and that he witnessed a tragedy so she knew that he left because of his father dying. She yells at him after he stands her up at the scene where she is interviewing that goth chick. Then she comes to his apartment and says that she is leaving town and doesn't want to leave with that being the last thing they said to each other. Then he explains that he works for the devil and she gets angry and leaves because she thinks he's lying to her because he doesn't want to be honest or whatever. So she does actually display some anger.

Like I said above, even if I knew someone witnessed soemthing horrific, and that was the reason they blew me off and didn't talk to me for years, I still wouldn't let them kiss me, and I'd be much colder to them.

Also, she doesn't yell at him, she scolds him in a slightly angry tone, before doing a complete 180 and coming back into his apartment and trying to make out with him again. I understand she doesn't want bitterness between them, but honestly, if I had just been stood up again by a person who I've only seen once in the past 17 years, I'm not going to try to be making out with them the night after they stand me up.

I too think they could of explained the jelly beans more...I mean I understand but most people probably wont get it except for the scene where he says alcohol gives him nightmares.

-Caretaker is talking about the hidden when he says they cant come on hallowed ground....I don't think that applies to blackheart.

He never specifes who he's talking about, he only says "they."

-From what I could tell caretaker is already dead which is why he has a grave and that is why he couldn't help. He himself says the last ghost rider was 150 years ago so I think he's just been waiting for the next one to come along so that the next gr could protect the contract so at the end he sort of passes on the responisibility to johnny and then vanishes when he rides off so I would assume he is going to heaven/hell.

I got that he was dead, (what with the vanishing and all) but even that wasn't certain. If he was a ghost, why could he only transform once. And still, he certainly was solid, he could have fought. It just seemed too anticlimatic.

-At the end johnny has more control over the ghost rider whish is why he can transform at will when he fights blackheart inthe apartment and at the end caretaker explains that he will be able to use his powers in the shadows...make sense enough that he has enough control to use his abilities in the dark.

He only practices trying to control the "fire spirit" within him once. That's a pretty quick time to learn how to control a deamon spirit within you. And caretaker doesn't say he can use his powers in the shadows he says "keep to the shadows."

-Satan can't use his powers on earth he can only influence atleast thats the way I see it. He tells him he can have his soul back...he doesn't expect a normal person to say ''no you can have my soul thanks very much''...like when caretaker says that he is unpredictable because he sold his soul for the right reason...it was kind of poorly explained though.

It's never said he can't use his powers. It's only stated he can't harm Blackheart. He uses his powers a few times, to imbue young Johnny with the Rider power, to freak young Johnny out on the road, to kill Johnny's dad ect.

You shouldn't have expected X-2 or batman begins this wasn't meant to be an epic superhero film its a b-movie monster/western flick thats why the lines are so cheesy like "He may have my soul...bu he doesn't have my spirit!"...thats intentional.

Sorry for the long post....hope that explains a bit.

I shouldn't have expected it to be better? From what I've heard from hardcore fans, Ghost Rider isn't a campy character, and they seem to think he has quite a few good stories. I think it could have very well been an epic superhero film, the producers simply decided to make it otherwise.

 

[Pilgrim]

Keep to the shadows because he can use his powers in the shadows it made sense to me when he said it. With him explaining about the hallowed ground he is explaining to johnny who the hidden are and then he says you better stay around here because they can't come on the hallowed ground so he is talking about them...you'll see if you watch it again

Roxanne keeps coming back because she really loves him though. I guess she reacts different to how you would I don't know...and it doesn't work very well because cage looks much older so its hard to see the connection.

He does learn how to control it quickly. That bit seems cut or rushed to slim down running time or something but the point is he does gradually learn how to use his abilities which is why he gets better at transforming.

Things are poorly explained but there are explanations for them. Maybe some of it was cut...I don't know but it seems to me that mephisto doesn't have much power on earth and as for caretaker riding off that is poorly explained too, but he says something along the lines of thats all he had left in him and then he talks about god giving him a second chance etc.

I don't mean that you shouldn't have expected it to be better just don't expect to get the same feel of batman begins. BB takes a very serious tone where as ghost rider is meant to be fun and corny. Maybe they will make a more serious film one day but this is the way it was done. The script needed work to better explain things like mephisto's power, johnny learning etc. Hopefully if theres a directors cut there will be something in there that makes more sense of it all.