Transformers is not just a cartoon from the 80s...and other justifications

[CFlash]

That's the problem with what you say, there hasn't. There has been 25 to my current count AT least. Transformers is a toy name brand. Transformers, the show from 1984, is not called Transformers if you want to get technical. It's called Fight! Super Robot Life, and then Transformers: 2010. And if you really want to muck things up Transformers was used by both UK, US, Japanese and Comic continuities of G1, and Infiltration and Dreamwave, and IDW and the audiobook series among others ALL of whom have vastly different continuities.

It's not like Batman where you're building off of roughly the same continuity with roughly the same starting point. Batman is and will always be a story about Bruce Wayne whose parents were murdered senselessly in an alleyway when he was 12 and he dawned a bat costume to avenge them. Transformers isn't that way. Even within G1, even continuities that tie into the show (like War Within) Optimus Prime has had a number of origins...he wasn't even originally a robot named Orion Pax in some of them.

The natural resource plot wasn't even core to every story. The G1 comic, by Budinsky for example, didn't use that. The Transformers left Cybertron to protect from an asteroid shower.

AFAIK Transformers the original cartoon was US produced and written... and ONLY called TRANSFORMERS. All my Transformers comics 1-28 (the last one I ever bought) say TRANSFORMERS. Nothing else. My friends DVDs say TRANSFORMERS. Nothing else. They dont say Headmasters, Beast Wars, Armada, etc. The "Bumblebee & Spike/Buster/whoever" story is the story this movie is trying to tell and recapture... in order to capitalize on a demographic. You know that. You're a smart guy.

I can understand your point-of-view though. As an A-Z expert and fan, this whole TF history is just a huge mish-mush with just one underlying theme to you. Giant Robots!

 

[ShadowBoxing]

AFAIK Transformers the original cartoon was US produced and written... and ONLY called TRANSFORMERS. All my Transformers comics 1-28 (the last one I ever bought) say TRANSFORMERS. Nothing else. My friends DVDs say TRANSFORMERS. Nothing else. They dont say Headmasters, Beast Wars, Armada, etc. The "Bumblebee & Spike/Buster/whoever" story is the story this movie is trying to tell and recapture... in order to capitalize on a demographic. You know that. You're a smart guy.

Yes and so do the UK comics...they just say TRANSFORMERS, and every show created since then says TRANSFORMERS is big bold letters. While Armada might denote a subline, even early G1 denoted their sublines. Even the comics have titles. The first four issues are called Transformers: More than Meets the Eye, not just "Transformers" are they not part of G1. What about the Headmasters offshoot. And while you're so smart you ought to go back and READ those Transformers comics and realize JUST HOW DIFFERENT they were. Shockwave wasn't a mindless lackey, Prowl wasn't a throwaway and the Autobots didn't come to Earth seeking fuel. And guess what the UK comics were just called "Transformers" and their character designs were different as was their origin. Dreamwave, also just called "Transformers" with a different origin and character line. So no, Transformers is not just some single cartoon, no matter what you say.

And as for something like X-Men, why call it "X-Men", it should have been Uncanny X-Men because that's where they got the story from. Batman has four titles, should writers be retricted to using just one and ignoring his origin which was printed in "Detective Comics" or should they have to call the movie "Detective Comics" because it uses stories from their. Stop being a close minded fan. Just because you only know one Transformers continuity doesn't mean you make or break Transformers. In fact it says we should try harder NOT to cater to your tastes because you don't like the franchise enough in the first place to follow it more than casually.

"Transformers" is not a name restricted to one show, were that the case they'd have been never able to reuse it, which they have many many many times. And in case you've forgotten Transformers is a toyline first, not a comic, not a cartoon, not an audiobook, not a children's book, not a UK magazine (all which bore the name just "Transformers", so your argument even falls apart amongst G1). The problem is you don't really understand that. Transformers isn't just "Transformers", and furthermore this is called "Transformers: The Movie - Their War, Our World", which has never been a subline to any continuity. And those Autobot symbols and Decepticon symbols, used in many of the cartoons and sublines, not restricted to G1.

 

[November Rain]

Although in good faith, i doubt this thread is really going to cause more/less peace in here.

people will always wish to state their own opinion even if it has been said or brought up like a billion times, even straight after another person has said the same thing.

You could have easily just asked people to make sure they read through any relevant threads before posting in them and if something seems to obvious to not be caught by someone else, then it's probably already been discussed in great detail.

you cant stop the potential backlash to this film....

 

[CFlash]

<snip babble about the A-Z world of Giant Robots, in which he also includes Gobots>

Were any of those iterations as popular or resonating as the original? Nah, you know they weren't.

I have no idea how old you are... and I know you're a walking encyclopedia of Big Robots, Fight, Fight!... but I was there. I lived it, breathed it, studied the bio-cards, and often couldn't even afford it. And even I, a dumb lapsed fan, recognizes this movie is trying to tell the so-called "G1" story. Why it had to introduce a Magical MacGuffin, and "Hot-Rods-Get-You-Girls" ******ed immature mentality, and Monster Movie Bad-guys, that is soooo ANTI the original concept is beyond me.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Were any of those iterations as popular or resonating as the original? Nah, you know they weren't.

Beast Wars surpassed it in terms of ratings, and part of the reason the figures cost less today is because of how many people bought and kept them. It's considered more successful, it even had two more seasons than the original show.

I have no idea how old you are... and I know you're a walking encyclopedia of Big Robots, Fight, Fight!... but I was there. I lived it, breathed it, studied the bio-cards, and often couldn't even afford it.

And I was there, and stayed there, and know those characters better than you know yourself. And furthermore I still watch the cartoon, memorized the first movie, read Transformers: Universe cover to cover, have read the BOTCON exclusives. Why should any movie producer bend over backwards for a fan who has misconceptions about the franchise. Should Nolan have to go "okay there are still a bunch of guys who think Batman carries a gun and his parents were killed by Joker". Hell, even Howard Stern thought that!

And even I, a dumb lapsed fan, recognizes this movie is trying to tell the so-called "G1" story.

But that's just it, it did not try to introduce a G1 story...in fact Hasbro came out and said early on it would be it's own thing, which honestly did really shock the fan community even after Don Murphy and Tom DeSanto talked out their ass at fan conventions (they even said Dan G. would voice BB, that Prowl, Wheeljack and Grimlock would be in it, etc.)

Why it had to introduce a Magical MacGuffin, and "Hot-Rods-Get-You-Girls" ******ed immature mentality, and Monster Movie Bad-guys, that is soooo ANTI the original concept is beyond me.

First off the Allspark is actually much more thought out than the original Matrix. The original Matrix was a plot device machine that could have any power should the Transformers need it. It killed Unicron, it could open Vector Sigma, it could cure Hate Plagues, be used "a la the ghost of Obi Wan" to guide Rodimus, and all the while the Matrix in the show was a lab assisstant to a guy named Primacron...who looked like this...

In the comic the Allspark/Matrix/Spark of Primus were what gave the Transformers life (as stated in Transformers 74), it's what took them from inorganic silicon/metal/whathaveyou to living, breathing, feeling creatures...and yes there were some moments in the UK continuity where it brough inanimate things to life. And Simon Furman, not Bob Budinsky created it (unless you count the TFTM adaption as written by Bob, but technically he was just following the movie so...). As for "Hot Rod getting the Girls" well Buster (the comics answer to Spike...who later showed up) was trying to get a girl in the original four issues (ironically the Transformers actually get in the way of him doing this though), and while I tire of "boy gets girl" needing to be a part of every action movie these days, it is, so it's not a huge hit to this film.

 

[CFlash]

I bow down to your superior intellect. I am an unworthy fan of Giant Robots. I thought I loved Transformers. I now find that that love was an illusion.

 

[lars573]

Were any of those iterations as popular or resonating as the original? Nah, you know they weren't.

Beast Wars. Unsurprising as many 15-22 yearolds were the same age I was (3-7) when G1 was while BW was. And I'm sure that in the fullness of time Armada will be to many (who are now 7-10) as well.


Also Go-Bots have been officially abopted into the TF family of continuities. Have been since Hasbro bought Tonka (and the Go-Bots IP along with it).

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Beast Wars. Unsurprising as many 15-22 yearolds were the same age I was (3-7) when G1 was while BW was. And I'm sure that in the fullness of time Armada will be to many (who are now 7-10) as well.


Also Go-Bots have been officially abopted into the TF family of continuities. Have been since Hasbro bought Tonka (and the Go-Bots IP along with it).

While I don't have any concrete proof of this, from what I heard Armada was the best selling line to date, and that Hasbro made a veritable killing off of it.

 

[CFlash]

While I don't have any concrete proof of this, from what I heard Armada was the best selling line to date, and that Hasbro made a veritable killing off of it.

I wouldn't doubt that. Back in the day I remember the originals were outrageously and prohibitively expensive (being diecast metal)... especially when you could buy the "fake" cwink: .. dont be offended) Japanese import ones in every store in Chinatown. In practice, Transformers were probably more coveted than actually ever collected.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I wouldn't doubt that. Back in the day I remember the originals were outrageously and prohibitively expensive (being diecast metal)... especially when you could buy the "fake" cwink: .. dont be offended) Japanese import ones in every store in Chinatown. In practice, Transformers were probably more coveted than actually ever collected.

The Japanese Transformers were more expensive. Those fake ones were probably made in Mexico, or by a knock off country in the United States (or a knock off company in Japan possibly). Transformers isn't an American toy, it's a Japanese toy imported and distributed by Hasbro by way of Takara. Convoy, the Japanese Optimus, was part of diaclone for years before we saw him in the states. Gobots (the original Gobots) are the American made robots.

The rest you're probably right about. Transformers were, if I recall, slightly more expensive than usual figures. But the line dropped the use of Diecast in and around the third wave, and continued using pure plastic until the 7th line (even though Takara was known to diecast figures in later lines), and they became considering less expensive.

In related news, while the in state re-issues don't, Japan has begun using diecast again in their Transformers. And recently several lines have been devoted to bringing back the use of diecast parts, especially the "Act" figure line and the retooled and repainted reissues of late. They are generally expensive, but well worth it as the originals would cost ten times as much.

 

[CFlash]

The Japanese Transformers were more expensive. Those fake ones were probably made in Mexico, or by a knock off country in the United States (or a knock off company in Japan possibly). Transformers isn't an American toy, it's a Japanese toy imported and distributed by Hasbro by way of Takara. Convoy, the Japanese Optimus, was part of diaclone for years before we saw him in the states. Gobots (the original Gobots) are the American made robots.

The rest you're probably right about. Transformers were, if I recall, slightly more expensive than usual figures. But the line dropped the use of Diecast in and around the third wave, and continued using pure plastic until the 7th line (even though Takara was known to diecast figures in later lines), and they became considering less expensive.

All I remember is that they had Japanese (or maybe Chinese?) packaging, they cost half(!) as much as the real Hasbro Transformers you'd buy at Toys r Us, and could only be found in the small chinese gift shops that used to litter New York City. They were identical to the originals (we used to compare them exhaustively) but did not have the Autobot/Decepticon symbols. I have always assumed those were the "Takara" Non-Hasbro originals, but I don't know.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

All I remember is that they had Japanese (or maybe Chinese?) packaging, they cost half(!) as much as the real Hasbro Transformers you'd buy at Toys r Us, and could only be found in the small chinese gift shops that used to litter New York City.

They're probably made by a knock off company, possibly Japanese, maybe Chinese, but I'd bet my money they're actually Korean (as most knockoffs are). Yeah they have them (still) down here at flee markets. I actually own several knock off Transformers in my collection...and you can find a few at various Transformers dealers across the web. But they weren't made by Takara, who created Transformers out of about 5 or 6 other Japanese Transforming robot properties.

For example this is a true Japanese Transformer (That thing'll cost you around $150).

Don't ask how much this'd cost

This is not (Sky Garry of Battlestars in knock off form)

 

[lars573]

The Japanese Transformers were more expensive. Those fake ones were probably made in Mexico, or by a knock off country in the United States (or a knock off company in Japan possibly). Transformers isn't an American toy, it's a Japanese toy imported and distributed by Hasbro by way of Takara. Convoy, the Japanese Optimus, was part of diaclone for years before we saw him in the states. Gobots (the original Gobots) are the American made robots.

The relationship between Hasbro and Takara is a partnership. I don't know if it's equal or not. But I do know this Takara has a Korean partner that sells it's products in the Korean market.

On the KO front these days they mostly seem to come from mainland China. But back in the 80's I'd be willing to bet that they came from where the factorie were, Taiwan and Japan.

Now the original Gobots were the same deal as Transformers. A Japanese toy line marketed in the English world under a new name by a US toy company. Specifically Tonka selling Bandai's Machine robo 600 series.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

The relationship between Hasbro and Takara is a partnership. I don't know if it's equal or not. But I do know this Takara has a Korean partner that sells it's products in the Korean market.

Hasbro has definitely made some Transformers of their own. Nightbeat, for example, is a US exclusive character as are the Double Targetmasters (if I'm not mistaken). I'd imagine Action Masters are our baby as well, sadly.

 

[Marvin]

"Then there's the matter of matter. Bays says that weight-mass orthodoxy informed the decision to make Prime a hog-nosed semi instead of the flat-front model from the cartoon, which he says, would have yielded only a 23 feet of robot height. (He wanted Prime to stand at least 30 feet tall.)"

just a thought
from bay

realism > fanboys
believability > MSJ like love notes to flawed reason
making ur own movie > making someone else's

 

[shigsy2003]

First off the Allspark is actually much more thought out than the original Matrix. The original Matrix was a plot device machine that could have any power should the Transformers need it. It killed Unicron, it could open Vector Sigma, it could cure Hate Plagues, be used "a la the ghost of Obi Wan" to guide Rodimus, and all the while the Matrix in the show was a lab assisstant to a guy named Primacron...who looked like this...

I have to say for as much as I love Transformers, finding out that Primacron created Unicron and Tornadron was a bit disappointing. Although Call of the Primitives is one of the best eps of Season 3: finding more history of the Matrix (being Primacron's assitant) was good. Also it is one of Grimlock's highlights

It is also thanks to the Matrix that we get the history of the Autobots and Decepticons. Which is a fairly good story...better than the Contructicon arc anyway.