The Dark Knight Rises "Unrealistic" Villians

[Spideyfan01]

I was just wondering how some of the more unrealistic would fit into the Nolanverse.

Some of my ideas are:
Mr. Freeze: He could be a scientist that Joker knocks into a vat of chemicals. The chemicals destroy mess up his brain, so he turns to crime. I would like to see him in some kind of suit, but it would have to be a realistic one.

Clay-Face: He could be a crime boss that was in an accident, so his face is all screwed up (It looks like his face is made of clay, hence the nickname "Clay-Face).

If you have any ideas, please share them.

 

[El Payaso]

What's with villiains creating other villiains?

 

[Eddie Dean]

This again?

 

[Nepenthes]

Don't listen to him ^ there can never be enough of these ideas. Except I think there's already threads for it maybe, in DKR forum . Here's what I think Spideyfan.

Some of my ideas are:
Mr. Freeze: He could be a scientist that Joker knocks into a vat of chemicals. The chemicals destroy mess up his brain, so he turns to crime. I would like to see him in some kind of suit, but it would have to be a realistic one.

This is not that different from the comics expect you'd added Joker and removed his wife and ice guns. Can you elaborate on how these changes help fit him into the 'Nolan style' because I don't really see how they do. And imo the wife is a great aspect to the character.

See my idea in the Freeze thread here for my take. Also the Ivy thread.

Clay-Face: He could be a crime boss that was in an accident, so his face is all screwed up (It looks like his face is made of clay, hence the nickname "Clay-Face).

Sounds like Two-Face face! But where Two-Face is about duality Clayface is about being a chameleon, not just looking weird. For instance maybe he can be a famous and accomplished actor who - for some reason - his face starts to droop and he's unrecognisable. He begins to lose his sense of identity that was never really that firm to begin with. Now he is no one. He goes nuts and perhaps takes revenge on the who or what behind his droopiness.

I was going to write about a plastic surgeon and perhaps different ways the actor could realistically assume different faces, but really I'm stuck. Nolan Clayface is just not a good idea; he has no unique way to pose a threat to Batman, no real motive I'm aware of other than revenge, and unless he has mob connections (ex Frank Sinatra) he's not much of a crime figure. He's in the comics because his power makes him quite dramatic. Take that away he's nothing.


Anyway I really enjoy thinking about new takes on villains and hearing others - and I'm open to whatever wacky or radical ideas but imo they must retain the core of the character and cover the following aspects...using Scarecrow as an example:

1. Credible Motive: i.e. study fear in patients; feel personal superiority by gaining control over others peoples mind; profit from Ra's 'Gotham ransom'.

2. Unique and Longlasting Pattern of Threat or Crime: release criminals from prison and trial into Arkam for Falconio; gas people who get in the way of Ra's plan.

3. Unique Dramatic Element: fear gas and hallucinations. Scary gas mask.

4. Reflection of Batman: Conquer fear. Control fear.

I'd be very interested if you can explain these in your Mr.Freeze and whoever else. t:

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

If Freeze and Clayface are in a movie then they should follow the "BTAS" route with some comics thrown in. None of this "making up origins" crap. It only works for such villains as Poison Ivy and Mad Hatter, or Killer Croc, but others I say...

"Stick to the source or don't even attempt at making a good movie."

 

[Texas Zombie]

Freeze could only work if he has like military weapons. He could be a genius and crazy considering most people that are incredibly smart are insane. :bat:

 

[Riven]

Mr. Freeze: He could be a scientist that Joker knocks into a vat of chemicals. The chemicals destroy mess up his brain, so he turns to crime. I would like to see him in some kind of suit, but it would have to be a realistic one.

However much I love the character of Mr. Freeze, I fear there isn't really any way that would satisfyingly place him within Nolan's "heightened realism"... Remember, Nolan stated recently that he even thinks a character like the Penguin is pushing it.

Of ALL the villains in the movie/animated continuum, Freeze is the only one who got a truly satisfying and complete story arc. From the TAS episodes "Heart of Ice" and "Deep Freeze", to the animated movie "Sub-Zero" and the later animated episodes "Cold Comfort" and "Meltdown" (Batman Beyond), his story was brought full-circle. So I really wouldn't mind much if we didn't see him in the films anymore. He's been done justice sufficiently (even wiping from memory Schwarzenegger's god-afwul portrayal in B&R)

Clay-Face: He could be a crime boss that was in an accident, so his face is all screwed up (It looks like his face is made of clay, hence the nickname "Clay-Face)

That sounds more like the villain Black Mask, actually...

 

[Infinity9999x]

Honestly, what's up with all the realism stuff latley? I mean, yeah, I'm all for making a movie more relatable for audiences, but who does Nolan think he's kidding? BB wasn't that realistic. He made a movie about a guy who dresses up in a Batsuit, and fought a guy who runs an orginzation that burns down cities, steals a machine that vaporizes water (but somehow not the water in humans...) and a crazy guy who likes to use fear gas to scare the hell out of people.

Now aside from that, a villian not being included in a batman movie for realisim is ridiculous to begin with! THIS IS A COMIC BOOK MOVIE! It's a movie about a vigilante that dresses like a bat, somehow is never caught by the police or the FBI, and everybody likes him. The movie isn't realistic to begin with, so why should we change villian's backrounds to make them more "real?"

 

[Robin91939]

Clayface-

In a Nolan movie, let’s face it, he won’t be the monstrous mound of mud from the animated series and some runs of the comics.

I suggest another angle. If we do in fact get three good movies from Nolan (Ra’s/Scarecrow, Two-face, & Joker) and they do so well that Nolan chooses to stay aboard I suggest he tackles Clayface.

The Clayface that is in my head is Basil Karlo, the first Clayface. Matt Hagan, probably every TAS fan’s favorite version would be incorporated in.

Basil Karlo, a struggling actor. Very vain, so he goes under the knife. There is a subtle accident, that messes his features a little. He takes this as a HUGE discrepancy. He then thinks that he is losing auditions because of his face, instead of his complete lack of acting ability. Eventually his wife walks out on him taking his son. Months later his money problems become so bad that he is forced to rob a lady for her purse, she struggles, and he kills her.

Killing her didn’t feel like he thought it would, he wasn’t sad, he was proud. Proud that he finally had power, power to take something from the world that was worth something.

The following months there are reports of victims dying of suffocation. Choked and raped. All of his crimes have the same M.O. they’re all women and they were all choked to death by being forced to swallow a lump of “clay” like substance, like a sillyputty.

Karlo wears brown stage make-up covering his face, which looks melted. At first sight the women are horrified, he uses this initial fear to then strike, grabbing their throats, and shoving wads of the same stage makeup down their throats until their pupils shrink and their arms go limp.

He leaves a small trace of the makeup at each scene of the crime. As his calling card.

It is a detective story, and a mystery for Batman to find the serial killer that the tabloids and police call Clayface, after one survivor’s eye-witness account.

To make him a physical match, the guy is going to be huge. Not a monster of Clayface’s past incarnations, but a realistic adaptation. It would have to be handled very seriously, and for this story, Batman would have had three movies, so one that focus’s a lot on the villain wouldn’t be a problem, especially to pull this villain off, he would need a lot of time, or tell his story in flash backs. I haven’t worked out a Batman story to coincide with the Clayface story, but I just wanted to share my idea for Clayface on screen.

Tell me what you think

-R

 

[Tempest19]

/\ Wow. Never knew that about Clayface! Just viewed him as this cartoon-like character that is a huge glob of clay.

But, what you just described about the villain's past- WOW. Intense. Reminded me of a dark crime thriller, which is really the route to go with the future Batman films and one thing that stood out about BB.

And if there was a Batman TV show- I think it would be best possibly as a crime drama, because all of these villains- even clayface- are really dark and intriguing characters if given a chance to be portrayed in a realistic comic book type way.

 

[Eastwood]

i say have some unrealistic characters i mean not everything has to be realistic its a movie

 

[Nepenthes]

Eastwood and Infinity 9999x. You mongrels. This is a thread about fitting the comic books into Nolans style. It's quite simple to understand. If you don't like Nolans approach then why bother posting stuff *we've heard a thousand times before* and is lame, lazy and ignorant anyways. Don't bother responding.



Robin91939 (wtf is up with the numbers?) Nice idea there. Maybe the plastic surgery mistake could be - the surgeon remodeled Carlo's face with a new method (bone structure implants, plastic injections etc) which didnt quite take. It all begins to droop. So Carlo needs regular surgery or maintainence to keep his face from melting. Perhaps he can use this opputunity to adopt new faces (HUGE perhaps) which eventually stops working altogether.

Also, instead of a struggling actor maybe Carlo was a global celebrity who faked his death (murdered his wife? contracted by mob? this could be good) and that's why he needed a new face, to disapear.

Have to be carfeul though cos the disfigurment thing will be pretty worn out with Burtons Joker & Peguin and Nolans Joker & TwoFace. Batmans rogues are more than just a freakshow. Also a scar on a vain, failed actor sounds an awful lot like Joker and TwoFace just combined into one.

 

[TwilightPro101]

Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

[Victarion]

Man-Bat. Though he and Clayface would be right at home in Burton's BR Gotham. Something I would've liked to see.

 

[TwilightPro101]

Defintely wanna see how their going to be play out the others.

 

[NolGoyHater]

For the Riddler, let's not have him in green spandex with question marks, but instead have him wearing green cyclist shorts. He could be a cyclist, hence the slim body style built for stamina. Let's say he's a Lance Armstrong type of guy who loses the Tour de Gotham curcuit because the Joker told everyone that Edward Nygma was buying drugs from him. He goes crazy because the drugs have a toxin and he starts seeing question marks 24/7. Then he uses questions to kill his victims. "Will I kill you now?" "How will you die?" "Do you find me sexy?"

Nah, forget it. The heightened realism is a load of uninspiring BS. I like idea to make Clayface was a rapist. That would make a kid-friendly movie, or another BR but worse.

Liberties are allowed to be taken with Nolan, yet despised by when Burton and Schumacher did them. Whatever.

 

[GL1]

The trick lies in the science... not in the origins... the origin stories themselves are fine, but it's the line you walk where you have to say that this person can shapeshift and control themselves on a molecular level and you lose the reality.

Dr. Fries having a cryo accident can be fine... wouldn't hold to the 'only survives in cold' thing too hard, cuz that doesn't really work, but having his chemistry change to make him want to be in the cold all the time and percieve room temperature as sweltering has real life precedent... and giving him a liquid nitrogen gun is... well... easy, and pretty frightening, honestly... instant death... none of this shine the sun on them foolishness...


Killer Croc flies as a man with a skin disorder that sharpens his teeth as a circus freak.

But Man-Bat? You can't explain anything even remotely like that with modern science... perhaps at a stretch as a Dr. Moreau type genetic experiement (we've got hybrid lions and tigers, the Bat and man hybrid isn't pure theory, right?) but not a transformation... even if one could change all the DNA in their body instantly (uber impossible), it wouldn't result in an overnight change.

Most of Batman's other major villains are 'realistic' imho. The only one that can't be suitably switched to realistic is Clayface, imho.

 

[vrempire]

How about the Man-Bat? I think he will get the most make-up.
Oh another one, the Killer-Croc. How about this time, Batman will fight two mutants at the same time. And at the end, Batman will team up with Man-Bat to get the cure for Man-Bat that was stole by Killer-Croc because Killer-Croc want to sell it in the Black Market and produce more Man-Bat as his own army. Fuuhhhh...whadda story..

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The thing about "unrealistic" villians......is that if you just give the ILLUSION of reality......it doesn't matter. Just giving the audience a reason some logic behind some of these things can be enough, and the costumes too being not quite as grand. Mr. Freeze is a character I think can be done rather "realistically" just by the type of costume you give him and what the freeze gun looks like. The other stuff can be bought pretty easily I think. Killer Croc too, can be done realistically.......and without making him a pimp either, lol.

Man-Bat is a really tough dude to give that "illusion of reality" to, just b/c him transforming into a giant Bat is such a fantasty that has existed for so long.

But, again......"unrealstic villians" is kinda funny to me, b/c if we had this convo before Batman Begins ever got made.....I doubt Ra's al Ghul would be considered realistic, ya know.

 

[Victarion]

Or Freeze could be done ala Dark Victory, where he worked for Two-Face, who promised the money needed to help Nora. No origin there, just a freak offering his services to a crazed D.A.

 

[GL1]

But, again......"unrealstic villians" is kinda funny to me, b/c if we had this convo before Batman Begins ever got made.....I doubt Ra's al Ghul would be considered realistic, ya know.

And they elminated the fantastic aspects of Ra's, in fact, they changed Ra's dramatically (which is why I laugh at peopl ewho talk about comics accuracy and liked Begins). He wasn't immortal and there were no Lazarus pits (not to mention that he was fused with Henri Ducard).

If you could eliminate the transformation from Man-Bat, it becomes believable... if man bat is created with genetics like cloned Sheep (meaning starting as a baby) then we have something that actually seems possible (even though humans and bats have different numbers of chromosomes, and we aren't done mapping either set).

There's nothing like that for clayface... his POWERS are the thing that make him AND they are the thing that make him too fantastical...

 

[Victarion]

Who's to say there is no Lazarus Pit? I find it very smart that Nolan didn't outright say "no Lazarus Pit." If he ever sees fit to bring Ra's back, he can have Ra's give a short exposition on his return.

 

[Batman jr.]

And they elminated the fantastic aspects of Ra's, in fact, they changed Ra's dramatically (which is why I laugh at peopl ewho talk about comics accuracy and liked Begins). He wasn't immortal and there were no Lazarus pits (not to mention that he was fused with Henri Ducard).

If you could eliminate the transformation from Man-Bat, it becomes believable... if man bat is created with genetics like cloned Sheep (meaning starting as a baby) then we have something that actually seems possible (even though humans and bats have different numbers of chromosomes, and we aren't done mapping either set).

There's nothing like that for clayface... his POWERS are the thing that make him AND they are the thing that make him too fantastical...

And we all know that Burton's penguin was THE closest to the comics you'll ever get in a movie.

 

[The Last Meatbag]

I don't give a **** if they're faitful or not , I give a **** about if they're faithful to the comics or not

 

[GL1]

Who's to say there is no Lazarus Pit? I find it very smart that Nolan didn't outright say "no Lazarus Pit." If he ever sees fit to bring Ra's back, he can have Ra's give a short exposition on his return.

Touche. Smart indeed. Hadn't thought of that.

I don't give a **** if they're faitful or not , I give a **** about if they're faithful to the comics or not

Bargh???? What else would they be faithful to, praytell?